Adeptus Titanicus Rules Query Thread

[Interrogator Stobz]

Here's one my boy brought up:

 

When using the optional rules for destroying terrain in the core book; if targetting a Titan behind terrain with an Inferno Gun, given that the terrain kind of counts as a unit and the first unit hit takes three hits and others take one.

Do the 3 hits from the template happen to the terrain and only one on the Titan? Or should we just ignore the terrain unless specifically targeted?

Edited March 13, 2020 by Interrogator Stobz

[Fajita Fan]

Audax doesn't bring volcanoes but I was pairing Acastus with them for S9 blast templates.  

 

So Coordinated Strike in a household is still not intended to work with dual weapon loadouts?  When shooting normally with 3 Questoris knights each armed with two battlecannons you'd fire 12 shots at S5.  If you do a Combined Strike with 3 battlecannons it's 2 shots at S8.  The Coordinated Strike rule with dual battlecannons still says you only get +1S per knight, not gun, so you don't get to fire 2 shots at S11.  It would be fun to see how Rifleman Questoris knights would perform if both their guns were counted.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Fajita Fan

[Sherrypie]

@Stobz:

 

Yup, terrain is the first target though strictly speaking it is possible to grill both it and an unseen enemy behind a way tall obstacle with these rules as you can target the terrain but the template is always shaped like it is. We've found it thematically appropriate to use a house rule, where Blasts aimed at terrain are placed so that their hole is at the side of the obstacle facing the firer instead of anywhere, as you could otherwise negate a lot of cover required for knights to survive.

 

@Fajita:

 

Yup, still no benefit under orders.

[Tar Aldarion]

In a recent game, we happened to wonder about when precisely the Warp Displacement stratagem happens. The strat Text only says "in any phase". The question is: how far does the implied freedom of timing actually go, i.e. would it be possible to displace a unit during one of its activations?

The example was a Clawlord on a Charge order that was going to lead him through a gantry crane which was agreed to be an inch or so of difficult terrain. Could the lord charge-move to the gantry, displace through it and then make its charge-attack? Or would he have to displace first (as an additional action) and then make its normal charge?

In the first case, might one further assume that the displacement - being part of the charge-move, sort of - would add to the charges' dice bonus?

As far I'm aware, this has not been touched in the FAQ yet. What do you think/know?

[General Zodd]

4 hours ago, Tar Aldarion said:

In a recent game, we happened to wonder about when precisely the Warp Displacement stratagem happens. The strat Text only says "in any phase". The question is: how far does the implied freedom of timing actually go, i.e. would it be possible to displace a unit during one of its activations?

The example was a Clawlord on a Charge order that was going to lead him through a gantry crane which was agreed to be an inch or so of difficult terrain. Could the lord charge-move to the gantry, displace through it and then make its charge-attack? Or would he have to displace first (as an additional action) and then make its normal charge?

In the first case, might one further assume that the displacement - being part of the charge-move, sort of - would add to the charges' dice bonus?

As far I'm aware, this has not been touched in the FAQ yet. What do you think/know?

Okay, so this isn’t based on any particular interpretation of the rules, but I have always not used Warp Displacement mid-action. So using it before or after my normal move, but not interrupting it.

As for how it interacts with Charge distances, I don’t see how it can. The Charge bonus is representing a really good run up and using the momentum to do more damage when you impact. Warp Displacement is basically teleporting, so shouldn’t add to that momentum. In that regard, I’d only use the actual distance you’ve moved normally for bonus attacks. I’ve also self-censored myself to only using it prior to the Charge move. One reading of the rules is that, if you used the Warp Displacement to get into combat range (and it would have to be very accurate to do so!) you wouldn’t get to attack at all, as it’s not your Charge “Movement” that got you there.

As I say, not saying this is a rules lawyer interpretation, but given how good Warp Displacement is for 2SP anyway, I don’t think it would be healthy for the game for it to stack on Charge bonuses anyway.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

18 hours ago, Tar Aldarion said:

In a recent game, we happened to wonder about when precisely the Warp Displacement stratagem happens. The strat Text only says "in any phase". The question is: how far does the implied freedom of timing actually go, i.e. would it be possible to displace a unit during one of its activations?

The example was a Clawlord on a Charge order that was going to lead him through a gantry crane which was agreed to be an inch or so of difficult terrain. Could the lord charge-move to the gantry, displace through it and then make its charge-attack? Or would he have to displace first (as an additional action) and then make its normal charge?

In the first case, might one further assume that the displacement - being part of the charge-move, sort of - would add to the charges' dice bonus?

As far I'm aware, this has not been touched in the FAQ yet. What do you think/know?

The titan isn't 'moving' when it warp displaces. As it isn't using its speed characteristic. So it wouldn't add to the attack bonus.

[Tar Aldarion]

Thanks for Your thoughts, both!

I'd share your view on this. The displacement seems to be meant as a seperate action, happening either before or after the charge - and it better had in regard of balance. Goonhammer, however, says you "use it whenever you want", so there seems to be some ambivalence still.

Maybe I'll place a query with GW, just to be sure.

[Mandragola]

It’s unclear when warp displacement can occur, which is a problem because it’s a very commonly-used strat. RAW appears to let you use it absolutely whenever you want, so potentially after an enemy has charged or after they’ve declared you as a target but before the attacks land. We don’t know, so I agree it would be sensible to ask GW. 

Maximal Fire house rule it so you can’t do it during a titan’s activation, but at any other time. That’s still very powerful but not quite as mad. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Mandragola

[noigrim]

The rulebook says that a 1 is alwas a superficial hit, it should be a 6 right?

[Tar Aldarion]

7 minutes ago, noigrim said:

The rulebook says that a 1 is alwas a superficial hit, it should be a 6 right?

 

I don't think so, no. "Superficial" means that a target only has got its paintjob scratched, its secondary parking lights blown out or the like. So, after successfully rolling to hit (and determining hit location), any armour roll of 1 is discarded, regardless of strength and armour value.

 

Even a warlord titan in an Extergimus maniple hitting a banner of armiger Knights with its Bellicosa cannon powered up to S14 is going to whiff on an armour roll of 1.

[Sherrypie]

A superficial hit is rolling 1 in the Armour Roll. ie. there is always a chance to not do any damage even when you hit. Burnt paint and so on.

 

If you instead mean "shouldn't natural 6's always hit in the To Hit roll", then yes, 6's do always hit.

[noigrim]

ah, that makes more sense

[General Zodd]

I require the assistance of the Collegia Titanica! One of my local Princeps has recently started using Vulturum, which has surfaced a question about timing on the Stratagem “Cull the Weak”. This states that when an enemy Titan moves outside of its front arc a friendly Titan can immediately make an attack against it. So, at what exact point do you attack? When the movement is initiated? Announced? When the full movement is completed? Or when that portion of movement (however you want to define that!) is complete? Essentially, if a Titan sidesteps into cover, can you fire at it before it disappears from LoS?

 

I think yes you can attack, but there is a local debate raging! Many thanks.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I think it would have to finish the move, but don't know for sure.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I asked a friend who plays them, (Dan from Bottom of the Barrel Battle Reports) and he said that the Vulcanum player chooses, the problem with doing it at the end is that often the target can move outside of an attackers arc, (which may be why they want to do it) and that would make the Strat functionally useless.

 

 

[Sherrypie]

Cull the Weak activates when the enemy moves in any other arc than their Front, which could happen at any point of their move, and allows the Vulturum player to immediately shoot. There are no stipulations to wait until the end of that move, so I would also be firmly in the camp that allows you to interrupt any move before the target can escape. The idea in the stratagem is indeed to play chicken with the enemy, as soon as they blink and try to hide you strike them down.

[General Zodd]

12 hours ago, Sherrypie said:

Cull the Weak activates when the enemy moves in any other arc than their Front, which could happen at any point of their move, and allows the Vulturum player to immediately shoot. There are no stipulations to wait until the end of that move, so I would also be firmly in the camp that allows you to interrupt any move before the target can escape. The idea in the stratagem is indeed to play chicken with the enemy, as soon as they blink and try to hide you strike them down.

This is my position as well. I think it’s probably down to people being used to games with a more structured order of operations, which GW doesn’t tend to employ!

[Tar Aldarion]

The intention of cull the weak seems to be clearly to punish enemy engines for trying to evade your full attention. Therefore, I wouldn't argue against it being used to that end... It seems to be amiguous, however...

 

Yesterday I stumbled over a rules discussion over at the tabletop standard youtube channel. It concerns a very basic rule, but in fact, I've been uncertain about it as well: firing solutions, esp. in regard of weapon arcs. Here's the figure from tabletop standards' video:

 

 

Apparently, the rulebook (p. 33) says: "If it is not immediately clear which arc the target is in, use the centre of its base as a point of reference." Accordingly, Warlord B in the figure would not be in Warlord A's front arc. However, tabletop standard got in touch with GW and got conformed that any part of a target's base being in your front arc is enough to make it a viable target. Personally, I'm not sure how much the person chatting on GW's behalf really knew about AT, as their answers seems somewhat inconsistent to me. But still, there's a definite expression in it by an official GW employee.

 

Apparently, this has been discussed lively in an AT18 facebook group, and people seem to handle this quite differently. I remember wondering about it in some situations, but there was never any disagreement, and so we never looked into it any further. However, I keep thinking that it just doesn't feel right that Warlord A in the figure shouldn't be targeting Warlord B. If anything, the rulebook advises us to hit targets with -1 or -2 modifiers if they're only partly visible to the attacking gun. I think I might propose applying this, per gentleman's agreement, to fire arcs as well in the future.

 

But what do You think?

 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

They did an update after they asked GW. It's any part of the base, not more than 50%,

[Mandragola]

Yeah this one is weird. RAW does seem to say the centre of the base needs to be in arc but that's very weird. GW doesn't seem to have intended that so it's not what people play. It doesn't actually make a lot of difference in play (corridor arcs suffers quite a bit though), so long as both players are clear on which rules are being used.

[schoon]

The intent of the rule clearly seems to be that you get a "parting shot" for Titans moving out of your front arc.

 

However your group is playing the center-of-base vs part-of-base rule is however it is.

 

I'd play it as being triggered at the instant of movement where they would leave your front arc, after which they would complete their movement.

[Sherrypie]

@schoon those are two separate questions. Cull the Weak doesn't care about the user's arcs, it's about the target itself. When someone decides to back up or step sideways, they become a valid target.

[Tastyfish]

How does difficult/dangerous terrain actually work?

 

Rules state that crossing dangerous terrain gets you a S3 + 1 for each full inch travelled. Which on the surface seems to have dangerous terrain not being that dangerous to most titans - but perhaps something 1-2" across comparable to the 'take a hit on a 1' tradition of 40K.  Warlords really don't care because they can hardly move fast/far enough to get damaged. Probably the most common bit of dangerous terrain you might encounter will be a wrecked Titan, with probably a 2" crater.

 

But dangerous terrain is also difficult, which means for each 1" you move through it counts as 2" - so now we're looking at taking a S7 hit to the legs to cross the 2" crater left by an exploded/fallen warhound or reaver. Which might only give a brief pause to an undamaged warlord but it's definitely something a warhound or reaver don't want to risk getting tangled up in.

 

 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

They don't stack in that way.  Each uses the same definition for the distance actually travelled, it's just that you spend twice as much of your movement characteristic to move through difficult terrain.

 

Dangerous also doesn't have to be difficult, but it probably will be.

 

Dangerous adds up pretty quickly when used. Even a warlord moving a full 6" is taking a S9 hit, which could give it a devastating hit, or more if the track is already damaged. 

[Sherrypie]

Warhounds get absolutely wrecked by dangerous terrain. It also starts to add up if you leave dangerous rubble behind falling titans, filling important parts of the battlefield when your engines are already starting to be a bit beat up.

 

That said, I personally like houseruling various types of dangerous terrain a bit, too. Knights ignoring some types of dangerous terrain is... fine, I guess... but not so much in the case of minefields or acid pools. Acid, lava and similar substances are also something where I like to add a clause that says you take a high Str hit if you don't move out of it, as wading in that stuff is bad enough but staying in it is even worse.