Siege of Terra - Fury of Magnus

[Jareddm]

  On 9/28/2020 at 3:36 PM, DarkChaplain said:

 

  On 9/28/2020 at 3:12 PM, Sandlemad said:

 

  On 9/28/2020 at 3:07 PM, Noserenda said:

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Not read it but my first assumption was the Grey Knights, not Primaris, seeing as those exist a an Emperor secret project whilst the Primaris are still just an Emperor secret project.

 

 

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You know what, that is better, if true. More in line with bringing Magnus into the fold and defining his role in a post-crusade imperium, much better than "here's these new toys". Not wild about the rest but that's not bad. Interestingly in line with some fanmade alternate heresy scenarios too, stuff like the Dornian heresy.

 

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Now also consider that the Grey Knights are LED BY IANIUS! He is Arvida merged with the Shard Magnus "just missed" on Terra!

 

It's basically the Emperor offering Magnus to be reunited with his lost itty bitty of self in a roundabout way, alongside a new "Legion" of highly psychic Marines immune to the taint of Chaos, and disciplined to the max to be able to actually wield their powers at minimum risk to the rest of the galaxy - and Ianius's teachings will be instrumental to the entire recruitment drive, adding a distinct Thousand Sons background to how they do things.

 

It also makes the Emperor's appearance in The Buried Dagger, when the chosen few are leaving, much more important - because it indicates that He himself was setting things up there, too, and the Grey Knights weren't merely Malcador's "worst case" cleanup crew for later. If we take the Grey Knights founding as a gambit in itself, not just for the future, but for the present war, it makes a lot more sense.

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Oh I'm an idiot. That makes so much more sense than Primaris. The Grey Knights have just felt sidelined for awhile that I forgot they were around.

[SkimaskMohawk]

@sandlemad "If he's meant to be a hypocrite or if there's some emphasis on him taking a stand, cool and all, just so I have that straight."

 

A lot of primarchs are written to be rather large hypocrites. Any book that has a large focus on a primarch will have some self-justified hypocrisy in one point or another.

[DarkChaplain]

One thing I like from the spoilers is

 

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That it confirms that Malcador cannot regenerate/revive on his own, despite being basically a Perpetual. While he gets brought back, it - going by the spoilers - is either not by his own power, like Alivia's, or - alternatively, though the spoiler doesn't say it - only by way of siphoning away another Perpetual's lifeforce.

 

I believe it to be the former, as John Grammaticus sacrificed his own perpetuity for Vulkan, and Alivia is... more giving. Though I'm curious how she's acting in the novella when considering her family, or that she originally rejected Malcador when he sent Hassan.

 

This pretty much solidifes that Perpetual != Perpetual, that the revival aspect isn't necessarily a built-in feature, or can be stymied. Some resurrect, others may just be immune to natural deaths / sickness. I'm still iffy on John Grammaticus originally believing he is being brought back by the Cabal, back in Legion, despite being retconned into having been around since contemporary times.

 

On the flipside, it seems oddly humorous that

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Malcador gets turned to ashes by Magnus, gets swept back up off the floor, and then sits on the Golden Toilet for a bit just to turn to ashes again, once he's done his thing. I wonder if they'll connect the two instances later in the Siege.

[Izlude]

So I was talking with a friend about Sons of the Selenar with regard to Sharrowkyn and wasn't sure if this book shed any light on what the deal with Magnus and Sharrowkyn was? I recall that in the Seventh Serpent (A pretty good book) that in the end there was an interaction with Sharrowkyn and Alpharius. Alpharius basically says to Sharrowkyn "I'd kick you arse but magnus wants you alive." I thought there would be some more about this later but I don't recall seeinh much about this in Sons of the Selenar. Not sure if this book mentions this or if anyone know?

[hopkins]

Just finished it, and that was awesome!

[Indefragable]

@m_r_parker that was a truly epic amount of nested spoiler tags. I felt like I was reading HTML code.

 

@a.a.logan don’t beat yourself up. People asked for spoilers and you gave them the short version and told people not to read them. To quote Arrested Development “well, I don’t know what I expected.”

 

First thoughts: as is often the case, it’s probably best to just read the book since so much context gets lost in trying to sum things up. And often the rhythm of a story includes many clues and details in its own right. 

 

Second thoughts: .............that all happened in a novella considered to be tangential/bonus to the main storyline?
 

Thoughts on spoilers:

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I’m not sure what to think. On one hand I get the sense that there’s some weight to actions here (OMG A big name is DEAD!), on the other hand it feels so weird that such a narrative, if it has the weight that it seems to, would not be considered an important part of the main storyline. Like....this feels so much like having your cake and eating it too.

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“we totally killed off Malcador!!!!! Whoa, shocker, huh? Except he’s not actually dead!!!!! Whoa, shocker, huh?”

Like...some of what seems to happen seems to cheapen things more than enlighten. 

The comment about “wait, so the dude who just atomized one of his sons with a glance on a whim turns down his father’s offer of redemption because he refuses to harm even a single one of his sons....?????”  made me guffaw in real life. 
 

 

Final thoughts: same as first  thoughts. 

[DarkChaplain]

To continue the "well, I don't know what I expected" subject.... I made the mistake, the grievous mistake, of going to /tg/ to see if there'd been other spoilers posted there, too. There have been, and some parts not mentioned here seem really good, others a bit meh.

 

However, I didn't quite expect the level of discourse and vitriol. I mean, I did, but it's still taking me aback. In a nutshell, everything BL/GW/FW have ever done is utter garbage and only brain-amputated fanboys could ever defend them. Now imagine this general theme across dozens of posts and different users, all garnished with insults, gutter-speech and what would generally be considered hatespeech with no ifs and buts, all while calling the two or three people who liked the book autistic or the like.

 

....this excursion truly has given me a renewed appreciation for B&C, and why moderation is important. Though it also gives me strength to know that sites like that serve to isolate these people from normal folks to some degree.

[Carach]

spoiler tags suddenly started coming in thick and fast in this thread.

 

is it a good read. does it do Magnus and his possy justice? Or does it merely turn them into questionable moustache twirling baddies 

 

One of my favourite lads with a story that is tragic, and can continue to be tragic and full of regret, but Crimson King kind of soured me a little on where they took things (or rather, the manner in which they took things) - just tell me if it's worth it or not. I don't want to touch any spoilers but is this going to take a big steamy dump all over Magnus or is he actually behaving somewhat rationally and maturely? Not as a petulant infant like so many of the Primarchs have come to be portrayed as...

[DarkChaplain]

Going by the spoilers I've read so far on here and /tg/, I think you should be rather happy with the way Magnus is being presented and has his ambiguous journey concluded for now. Magnus' path ahead is a major part of the plot, and he gets put through some tough choices which go a long way towards explaining why he is where he is now.

[Roomsky]

  On 9/28/2020 at 8:50 PM, DarkChaplain said:

To continue the "well, I don't know what I expected" subject.... I made the mistake, the grievous mistake, of going to /tg/ to see if there'd been other spoilers posted there, too. There have been, and some parts not mentioned here seem really good, others a bit meh.

 

However, I didn't quite expect the level of discourse and vitriol. I mean, I did, but it's still taking me aback. In a nutshell, everything BL/GW/FW have ever done is utter garbage and only brain-amputated fanboys could ever defend them. Now imagine this general theme across dozens of posts and different users, all garnished with insults, gutter-speech and what would generally be considered hatespeech with no ifs and buts, all while calling the two or three people who liked the book autistic or the like.

 

....this excursion truly has given me a renewed appreciation for B&C, and why moderation is important. Though it also gives me strength to know that sites like that serve to isolate these people from normal folks to some degree.

 

I honestly think /tg/, and 4chan in general, can be a useful resource for unfiltered opinions, so long as you know what you're getting into. It's certainly illuminating as to why certain people dislike what they dislike, and very occasionally more cogent about such things than the reddit hivemind, though I go there as well. There are some legit criticisms of BL on /tg/ you can't find anywhere else.

 

But I can hardly blame you for that response, I've gotten /tg/ poisoning more than once in the past.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Roomsky

[m_r_parker]

@Indefragable - I just wish it was as easy as writing HTML code, with indentations. I was constantly trying to ensure I'd put in the right amount of 'end' tags to ensure that everything lined up as I wanted.

 

Regarding the controversial spoiler:

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You've summed it up perfectly as being the narrative equivalent of having your cake, and eating it too. Major character deaths aren't steps to be taken lightly, and as such are massive points that generate a lot of focus and reader emotion. To adopt the Marvel approach (i.e. routinely killing off main characters, only to have them come back a short time in the future by one mechanism or another) cheapens the entire affair, and sets a precedent that this could happen again in the future therefore reducing the impact of that characters death when the reader finds out (resulting in a "So how are they going to bring X back?" in the reader, rather than processing the author's intention). As a number of people are asking - "How can this be included in a Novella / side-story rather than the main series?", well because ultimately it didn't. Maybe there might be changes to Malcador's character as a result of this, but I'm guessing this 'event' will do little to change his attitude or actions, and as such have little-to-no impact on the Series going forward. 

 

It's a weird route to take in my eyes, and could have been done differently. The initial reading was "OMG!", and by the end of the book I was "Oh... so what was the point?"

 

@Izlude - unless I missed it, nope. No mention of any Raven Guard at all throughout the novel.

 

@DarkChaplain - I purposefully kept large portions of the book out of the discussion here, because a lot of it wasn't directly tied to the overall aim the novella, plus I don't like to be the guy who gives away everything and leaves nothing for other readers to experience on their own. I purposely left out a lot of the Space Wolves and Salamanders, Magnus creating a massive breach at the Walls (stunning, btw), Magnus' discussions with Perturabo and Vulkan (and his massive respect for Perturabo above most of the other Primarchs), and some truly noble acts that left me thinking Magnus could be redeemed even though I know ultimately what happens 10,000 years later in the future. There's two pieces of art in the book, both of which fall into this category and can be found if you know who drew them. Some aspects of the novel I didn't like, some parts I thought were fantastic. Everyone has their opinions, and not everyone is going to love this book. To each their own, and why I decide to remain on this forum than go elsewhere (Warseer still scars me to this day)

 

@Carach - I would say that this does Magnus justice, there isn't too much more about the XVth barring the four main characters accompanying the Crimson King - so don't expect a load of additional lore about the Legion or introducing a bucket of new characters. Even the characters mentioned aren't seen through their PoV, for the Thousand Sons it's all done through the eyes of Magnus. As I've said earlier (before the big review), Magnus is grounded and relatable. I can understand his position and to a certain extent the choices he makes. Magnus' final choice is still a bit of question mark in my eyes, as some have already pointed out the conflict of not wanting to undertake an action he's already done about an hour earlier - in that way he's still a bit awkward as most Primarchs are, or maybe that's an excuse for a writer backing himself into a corner narratively. If you're a fan of the XVth I would say it's a solid investment when it comes out in paperback.

[Indefragable]

  On 9/28/2020 at 9:09 PM, m_r_parker said:

@Indefragable - I just wish it was as easy as writing HTML code, with indentations. I was constantly trying to ensure I'd put in the right amount of 'end' tags to ensure that everything lined up as I wanted.

 

Regarding the controversial spoiler:

  Reveal hidden contents

You've summed it up perfectly as being the narrative equivalent of having your cake, and eating it too. Major character deaths aren't steps to be taken lightly, and as such are massive points that generate a lot of focus and reader emotion. To adopt the Marvel approach (i.e. routinely killing off main characters, only to have them come back a short time in the future by one mechanism or another) cheapens the entire affair, and sets a precedent that this could happen again in the future therefore reducing the impact of that characters death when the reader finds out (resulting in a "So how are they going to bring X back?" in the reader, rather than processing the author's intention). As a number of people are asking - "How can this be included in a Novella / side-story rather than the main series?", well because ultimately it didn't. Maybe there might be changes to Malcador's character as a result of this, but I'm guessing this 'event' will do little to change his attitude or actions, and as such have little-to-no impact on the Series going forward. 

 

It's a weird route to take in my eyes, and could have been done differently. The initial reading was "OMG!", and by the end of the book I was "Oh... so what was the point?"

 

@Izlude - unless I missed it, nope. No mention of any Raven Guard at all throughout the novel.

 

@DarkChaplain - I purposefully kept large portions of the book out of the discussion here, because a lot of it wasn't directly tied to the overall aim the novella, plus I don't like to be the guy who gives away everything and leaves nothing for other readers to experience on their own. I purposely left out a lot of the Space Wolves and Salamanders, Magnus creating a massive breach at the Walls (stunning, btw), Magnus' discussions with Perturabo and Vulkan (and his massive respect for Perturabo above most of the other Primarchs), and some truly noble acts that left me thinking Magnus could be redeemed even though I know ultimately what happens 10,000 years later in the future. There's two pieces of art in the book, both of which fall into this category and can be found if you know who drew them. Some aspects of the novel I didn't like, some parts I thought were fantastic. Everyone has their opinions, and not everyone is going to love this book. To each their own, and why I decide to remain on this forum than go elsewhere (Warseer still scars me to this day)

 

@Carach - I would say that this does Magnus justice, there isn't too much more about the XVth barring the four main characters accompanying the Crimson King - so don't expect a load of additional lore about the Legion or introducing a bucket of new characters. Even the characters mentioned aren't seen through their PoV, for the Thousand Sons it's all done through the eyes of Magnus. As I've said earlier (before the big review), Magnus is grounded and relatable. I can understand his position and to a certain extent the choices he makes. Magnus' final choice is still a bit of question mark in my eyes, as some have already pointed out the conflict of not wanting to undertake an action he's already done about an hour earlier - in that way he's still a bit awkward as most Primarchs are, or maybe that's an excuse for a writer backing himself into a corner narratively. If you're a fan of the XVth I would say it's a solid investment when it comes out in paperback.

 

Regarding

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Malcador's death in a side-story, I wonder if main-numbered entries will even remark that Malcador died in this side-story.....or if Malcador is going to pull an Igor: "...what hump?"

[Scribe]

Can I get a blurb about his views on Pert?

[Lord_Caerolion]

Bearing in mind that I haven't read this, but in regards to

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Magnus refusing to kill his Legion after having just atomized a member of his Legion, I don't see it as hypocrisy, just that the guy got atomized for going against Magnus' orders and essentially committing murder during a parley, while the sacrifice of his entire Legion would be wholesale extermination for purely selfish reasons. They're not compatible in the slightest.

[mc warhammer]

  On 9/28/2020 at 10:34 PM, Lord_Caerolion said:

Bearing in mind that I haven't read this, but in regards to

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Magnus refusing to kill his Legion after having just atomized a member of his Legion, I don't see it as hypocrisy, just that the guy got atomized for going against Magnus' orders and essentially committing murder during a parley, while the sacrifice of his entire Legion would be wholesale extermination for purely selfish reasons. They're not compatible in the slightest.

building on that, sometimes there's an egotistic or abusive mindset in these things

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the abusive boyfriend who won't let anyone else touch a hair on his partner's head but he's allowed to smack them around if they "have it coming". magnus like some primarchs may see his legion's lives as his to spend, but balks or becomes sanctimonious about it when the request comes from someone else.

 

 

  On 9/28/2020 at 8:58 PM, Roomsky said:

 

  On 9/28/2020 at 8:50 PM, DarkChaplain said:

To continue the "well, I don't know what I expected" subject.... I made the mistake, the grievous mistake, of going to /tg/ to see if there'd been other spoilers posted there, too. There have been, and some parts not mentioned here seem really good, others a bit meh.

 

However, I didn't quite expect the level of discourse and vitriol. I mean, I did, but it's still taking me aback. In a nutshell, everything BL/GW/FW have ever done is utter garbage and only brain-amputated fanboys could ever defend them. Now imagine this general theme across dozens of posts and different users, all garnished with insults, gutter-speech and what would generally be considered hatespeech with no ifs and buts, all while calling the two or three people who liked the book autistic or the like.

 

....this excursion truly has given me a renewed appreciation for B&C, and why moderation is important. Though it also gives me strength to know that sites like that serve to isolate these people from normal folks to some degree.

 

I honestly think /tg/, and 4chan in general, can be a useful resource for unfiltered opinions, so long as you know what you're getting into. It's certainly illuminating as to why certain people dislike what they dislike, and very occasionally more cogent about such things than the reddit hivemind, though I go there as well. There are some legit criticisms of BL on /tg/ you can't find anywhere else.

 

But I can hardly blame you for that response, I've gotten /tg/ poisoning more than once in the past.

 

 

it's funny how "unfltered opinion" on those forums always seems to descend towards the intensely negative/hateful/bigoted/outright untruths and lies in terms of content though. almost as if the culture itself encourages that stuff.

 

 

  On 9/28/2020 at 9:09 PM, m_r_parker said:

@Indefragable - I just wish it was as easy as writing HTML code, with indentations. I was constantly trying to ensure I'd put in the right amount of 'end' tags to ensure that everything lined up as I wanted.

 

Regarding the controversial spoiler:

  Reveal hidden contents

You've summed it up perfectly as being the narrative equivalent of having your cake, and eating it too. Major character deaths aren't steps to be taken lightly, and as such are massive points that generate a lot of focus and reader emotion. To adopt the Marvel approach (i.e. routinely killing off main characters, only to have them come back a short time in the future by one mechanism or another) cheapens the entire affair, and sets a precedent that this could happen again in the future therefore reducing the impact of that characters death when the reader finds out (resulting in a "So how are they going to bring X back?" in the reader, rather than processing the author's intention). As a number of people are asking - "How can this be included in a Novella / side-story rather than the main series?", well because ultimately it didn't. Maybe there might be changes to Malcador's character as a result of this, but I'm guessing this 'event' will do little to change his attitude or actions, and as such have little-to-no impact on the Series going forward. 

 

It's a weird route to take in my eyes, and could have been done differently. The initial reading was "OMG!", and by the end of the book I was "Oh... so what was the point?"

 

it's a slightly less elegant version of the eating and having of cake

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with the alpharius death in PoD. we give the readers a "big event" but the story at large remains the same

 

in terms of the book content overall...i'm keen to read it. i'm more looking forward to the conversations between main characters than any deaths etc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

 "oh it's just another novella no biggie"  I think I'm starting to regret not waking up early enough to snag the limited edition of this. 

[Marshal Rohr]

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One of the oddest things about McNeill covering the origins of the Primaris project in his novels is the questions it asks and answers don’t jive with the questions and answers in his previous stuff and other people’s previous works. If the Thunder Warriors were just a tool to conquer Terra, and the Legions a tool to conquer the galaxy, what was the point of Primaris? And if he knew he could mass produce marines +1 at the same speed and efficiency as the Legions, why the extra step? Like the obvious reason is there was never meant to be marines +1 and they spent the entire arc of the heresy explaining the emperor was gonna discard the legions when everything was over, but if they’re going to go back and try fill in these gaps just skipping what marines+1 were supposed to do isn’t helping

[DarkChaplain]

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Keep in mind that the "Marines +1" in Fury of Magnus are massively implied to be the Grey Knights featuring Ianius, the missing Shard of Magnus. Primaris don't factor into the novella / short novel.

 

Where Primaris pop up by extension is Sons of the Selenar, by virtue of the gene-tech being taken from Luna and later recovered and handed to Cawl - they don't exist in this era, but the gene-material that they would be produced from does - and Horus might have gotten it if things had gone truly badly for the Imperium; remember that Abaddon was sent specifically to secure the Selenar and as a result secure resupply methods for the Legion.

 

So in my book, it makes sense for the gene-crafters the Emperor collaborated with having dabbled with the gene-tech a bit and that leaking out. The reference is hamfisted in Sons of the Selenar, of course, especially when we'd already have had a way to get the gene-tech into Guilliman/Cawl's hands, and had that dangling plotline ever since Deliverance Lost, with a possible bridge being the "Alpharius" vs Guilliman duel on Eskrador.

 

Some further deliberations:

 

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The Grey Knights, by contrast, are a recent development still in the making, planned only because the Heresy escalated so drastically, and spearheaded by Malcador. The Emperor gave his blessings and knows, and supplied gene-seed derived from himself which would make them prime anti-Chaos Marines. That, in turn, would make them the perfect new Legion for Magnus, the son who could never stay away from the Warp but might still be brought back into the fold and fulfill his purpose. So the "better Marines who don't get tainted" salespitch is both valid and relevant - and also cruel, as first Magnus was told his Shard was gone, and he was going to be reunited with it the roundabout way through the Grey Knights' Master Ianius.

 

While Primaris appear to have been a further development that could have been achieved if required, they weren't necessary for the Great Crusade - after all, the Imperium had conquered pretty much the entire galaxy by the time Horus turned. They succeeded with regular Marines. They were exceptional enough warriors, standing superior to most xenos and other human splinters either by virtue of their physical condition or their tactical capabilities.

 

Better Marines™ became necessary at two occasions:

1. Chaos started escalating its influence over the Materium, manifesting daemons and twisting regular Marines trying to contain them (see: Xavyer Jubal at the Whisperheads being possessed by Samus, for one early example)
2. The Legions turned 50% traitor, resulting in no actual advantage for the Imperium against their foes - where before, having Marines was enough, now it was Marines vs Marines, which might also access Chaos. This would only become as big an issue after Isstvan V, as the Rebellion seemed much smaller before the Dropsite Massacre - until then, the assumption was still that the Imperium had the numerical advantage.

The Heresy War made the Imperium lose their distinct strength advantage against their foes. Before, Marines were enough, but now they'd need Marines +1 to recover their superiority - or even just to stand equal with corrupted Marines that were favored by the Gods, like Plague Marines with their insane resilience.

Had the Marines during the Great Crusade already been Marines +1 ("Primaris"), the problem wouldn't have changed at all - it'd just mean the Imperium would need Marines +2 once the Heresy kicked off and could not be contained.

 

So even if we assume the Emperor could have easily made better Marines, even Marines +3, the question becomes: Would it have mattered at the time?

 

Let's just assume that Marines +3 would have been faster, stronger and more cohesive on the field of battle, cutting down actual conquest time by half. Would this have had that much of an impact when the general logistics of the war and the Imperium was still bottlenecked by regular humans, mechanicum adepts and the weight of bureaucracy, let alone travel and deployment times? I don't really think so. Chances are, the effort would've been wasted in most instances, as Marines were pretty fast in their conquests to begin with, with drawn-out engagements being rather rare throughout the Crusade, and even considered kind of a loss on part of the Legions involved - at least in terms of reputation.

Chances are that for human societies, the peace talks to bring them to compliance took longer on average than actual combat actions on their worlds.

 

Marines +1 are vital in M41/M42 because the opposition has grown beyond the point of equal strength, with additional daemon support.

Xenos like the Eldar have adapted to the Marines being a thing, Orks were nearly extinct originally - and techologically more advanced back then, too - but due to the Heresy, they were able to boost their numbers and scatter the threat across the galaxy again. Their threat is less one of strength, but of numbers, especially when aggregated by someone like Thraka. Necrons are a new thing, a race that only just started reawakening by the Heresy, but even their technology left in the galaxy was obscure and inert, thus easy to ignore at the time. Tyranids only just noticed our galaxy by the last years of the Heresy.

But daemons? Daemons were comparatively new to the Heresy War, and allied to - or even merged with - Space Marines, the balance shifts dramatically in favor of Chaos. Especially when the Imperium can't really rely on base human support troops, or even logistics, their own Marines end up quickly outnumbered and outbattled.

 

In that instance, the creation of anti-Chaos Grey Knights made perfect sense. It was quickly prepared by Malcador on the sly, shipping potential recruits to Titan under the guise of them being invalids, survivors of lost regiments and so forth, while gathering founding masters who have already stared Chaos and their brothers' corruption in the eye and triumphed. Adding chronomancy nonsense to the process also served to pump them out reasonably quickly in real-time, though obviously not fast enough to be around for the Heresy's end itself, but for cleanup duties afterwards.

With the Grey Knights, the Imperium would be able to negate part of the traitor's advantages effectively, and adding Magnus to the mix would tip the scales heavily.

Edited October 2, 2020 by DarkChaplain

[Marshal Rohr]

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Ok yeah, that makes total sense. I’m waiting for the Audible to get a fuller picture it was just a shower thought I had

[Sviox]

Just finished it. Overall pretty good book, though this time the events seem so central I'm a bit puzzled as to why it is not part of the main series.

 

Also, the end scene with Alivia was a bit weird. Might be my non-native English. Anyone want to contribute your understanding of what exactly happened there?

[Knockagh]

Finished this. Another great addition to the siege series. McNeill is definitely producing some of his best work in this series. I was never a fan of his writing but this was good well written stuff. Although agree with Sviox that final scene with Alivia was properly odd and left me wondering had I missed something. Maybe I did.

The emperor is written really well, which is a hard thing to do. I’m very surprised this didn’t make it to a full novel. It’s certainly essential reading for anyone following the siege. The final bits on Magnus are really key 40k lore. All good stuff.

[StrangerOrders]

Read the spoilers, as something of a McNeill hater, this sounds shockingly not bad from him. The Emp and Malc gets another hatchet to the face from the sound of things but few authors dont put him in the 'astoundingly 1 Dimensional and incompetent camp' so I am not shocked.

 

I have to but really fear to ask, how do the Wolves and Salamanders get treated in this?

 

I ask since the man is more or less the architect of the 'Wolves are idiots' memes that have been plaguing them for near on two decades now and Crimson King made me more livid than engaged. And I dont trust him with the Sallies.

 

Do they get a good showing or are they there to be bodies in the meat grinder who come off as strawmen?

 

Also:

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I wanted to ask about the World Spirits, how do they appear and do they more or less just exist for Magnus to flex them into pieces?

 

Thanks for the spoilers and reviews folks! Lovely work! 

[Scribe]

The concept of the World Spirits annoys me to no end.

 

Its the Warp. All of it.

[Jareddm]

  On 10/9/2020 at 12:05 AM, Scribe said:

The concept of the World Spirits annoys me to no end.

 

Its the Warp. All of it.

I agree that it's all the warp. But is it all the SAME warp? I find the idea of the warp not being uniform and world spirits kinda being "warp landmarks" that can be interacted with interesting enough that I allow some leniency.

 

But I also totally understand people who are just tired of Space Wolf exceptionalism.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I do like the concept of World Spirits, actually. We know that belief shapes the Warp, so it only makes sense that the combined feelings and impressions of a particular planet would have a reflection that forms a rudimentary Warp entity. I mean, if a famous sword can have enough of a legend that it causes a vague reflection then a planet should be able to as well.

 

What I've never liked is the implication that Fenris has enough power/identity that it's able to be used as a power source, for want of a better term, for Rune Priests. The Storm Seers of the White Scars believe they channel the fury of Chogoris too, but they're honest with themselves and accept that it's still Warp energy. The Space Wolves are special enough without having their psykers actually using fancy planet magic that nobody else in the galaxy can do.

I will say that I'm surprised that they've included Nocturne as well though, I'm assuming this is just because of Salamander shenanigans.