Siege of Terra - Fury of Magnus

[Noserenda]

Eh, McNeils work started excellent and has gone downhill over the years, just as BLs general standard has gone up, I guess as his day job has moved onto other things he's less immersed?

 

I'm less bothered by his work on the ksons, but as I've ranted elsewhere he's hobbled the Iron Warriors going into the siege already

Plus I'm pretty certain Magnus has been effectively a daemon Prince for a while now, way past point of no return

[Lord_Caerolion]

Now that the timeline issue has apparently been resolved, my only gripe with McNeil is that he's one of the most prominent in the "Star Wars"ification of the Horus Heresy. We get it, Graham, you wrote a really good Iron Warriors book back in the day, you don't have to spend almost every line of your new Iron Warriors book trying to remind us of it.

[RedFurioso]

We get it, Graham, you wrote a really good Iron Warriors book back in the day, you don't have to spend almost every line of your new Iron Warriors book trying to remind us of it.

Do you still live in 2012?

[Lord_Caerolion]

The Mayans never let me leave.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Lord_Caerolion

[Moonreaper666]

The Emperor thought he and humanity were screwed by the time of Master of Mankind. This novel he will be horrified at Magnus who will do something that would make the Custodes :cuss their pants (like blow up an entire wall of the Imperial Palace with Custodes and Titans on it)

[DarkChaplain]

Sure, bud.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I think french demonstrated that he can take McNeils characters and plots and elevate them beyond anything the latter could do. The Ahriman trilogy puts the crimson king to shame; the HH "iron warrior trilogy" of Tallarn, Slaves to Darkness and Solar War cover the Iron Warriors in a much more well-rounded way. McNeil isn't required to finish off the plot of magnus.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

I would like to see Magnus Upon the precipices of his own "Salvation". Feeling Somewhat more consoled that his actions are justified, even if he must live between "Loyalties" Between the Emperor and tZeentch in order to achieve the best outcome that he believe he is following.  

 

It would also be kick ass to see Emperor and Red have some kind of final telepathic communication. 

 

"Is this what you envisioned my Son? Was throwing in your lot with the very ones who betrayed you worth your soul?"

 

"Ha! This was always YOUR vision father, to be tricked by intention or by ones own unwitting actions still leads to the same outcome"

 

"....I see, Bishop to F7"

 

".......DAM YOU!"

[Brother Lunkhead]

Let's stay focused on poor Magnus please.

[Scribe]

I'm...annoyed we are getting short stories/novella's out of this series. :/

 

ATS was good, some of the later stuff was less good. I'm not particularly invested in Magnus' arc at this point, and French did it better in the Ahriman Trilogy as Skimaskmohawk put it.

 

Unless reviews point me otherwise, I see no reason to pick this up.

[Prot]

I got very excited when i started reading the email from BL, then my heart sank when I found out it was Graham McNeill again.

 

Please please please let someone other than Graham McNeill write the Thousand Sons.

 

Chris Wraight would be awesome.

 

Plus Chris Wraight has already dealt with what happened to the missing Shard of Magnus on Terra, thus rendering the new novella's maguffin pointless.

 

Be careful what you wish for. I have some personal favourites as well but to wrench Thousand Sons from Graham night leave them with.... far less capable hands. 

 

Please please please let someone other than Graham McNeill write the Thousand Sons.

Fow what purpose? The TS story arc is McNeill's story arc. He created characters, subplots etc. A Thousand Sons is one of the most acclaimed HH books ever. Just let the man finish his story.

 

playing devil’s advocate, there are many scenarios where the public has wished for a creator to finish an idea only to be left very disappointed. 

 

I really enjoyed Graham’s early works and some of his HH stuff has been great. I’m not going to lie, some of the recent Thosand Sons stuff was ... a real head scratcher for me. It was missing something.  But let’s be fair... we all have off days, off projects. If there’s a moment or story I see Graham grabbing a piece of his older self, it’s this one. Obviously I’m biased but I won’t be missing this one. 

 

As far as this particular storyline... there is a challenge here. To a large degree we already know the outcome of this story but it’s how we get there. I still think a profound and defining moment for Magnus, for the Legion, for the Heresy comes in that moment where Magnus bursts into the underground chamber. That was really well done. It was like a switch going off. Until that moment Magnus was omnipotent, in control , always knew better, and infallible. At that very moment he realized he was utterly wrong and manipulated like an egotistical child. 

 

How can anyone say there isn’t more to explore in that moment? Really, so much happens in that few pages of story that we literally talk about it today. 

 

What did the Emperor really think of Magnus? As a son? As a tool for the ‘chair’? As a defender of humanity? As a traitor? 

 

Magnus made everything so much worse in that moment... does he regret his actions? How does he react to being manipulated as such? Does he blame Horus, or the Emperor for the way it unfolded? 

 

There’s a lot there I’d like to see explored. 

[Scammel]

I'm inclined to agree with that sentiment, Prot, but for me and evidently a few others the single biggest and most interesting question was about how the gap between the morose but still fundamentally decent Magnus after the events of ATS, and the Primarch who marches at the side of the arch-traitor, was going to be bridged. Perurabo and Mortation seem to have been deluded enough to believe that something else was going to come after the ruin of the Imperium, but Magnus can't convincingly claim ignorance of what Horus now is. It's like... the most important chapter of the Magnus story is just  missing somewhere.

[DarkChaplain]

Have you missed Thief of Revelations, The Crimson King, the Primarchs novel, Morningstar or Slaves to Darkness? Magnus isn't claiming ignorance - he's claiming the opposite. He is still full of himself in a sense of believing he is righteous, he is not being manipulated, he is in control, his defiance is for the best, and that his father is wrong somewhere along the line. He does not side with Horus out of a belief that Horus is correct, or that his brothers are better for their ascensions - he does so out of sheer arrogance and a desire to fulfill his own desires. He's exploiting the ensuring chaos to do his own thing on the side, and supports the Warmaster in so far as it'll get him closer to recovering his final shard.

 

from The Crimson King

 

‘The tides of the Great Ocean have revealed our course, the path we must take,’ said Magnus, his voice carrying to every warrior gathered before him. ‘Horus gathers his forces for a final push on the solar system, and we will join him for the last great battle on Terra’s soil.’

Long had Ahriman waited to hear the primarch speak of what the future held for the Legion. But Terra? The birthrock?

‘We will gather the vessels of our fleet and make all speed to rendezvous with the Warmaster. The hour is upon us where the Thousand Sons must join this fight, a war we wished no part in, and bring ruin upon those who have sought to humble us.’

Cheers spread through the assembled warriors, but Magnus was not yet done.

‘Make no mistake, my sons,’ he continued, ‘the coming days will test us all. But cleave to this when the darkness presses in, and hope grows scarce – I do not fight for Horus, nor any of my fallen brothers. I do not fight for the primordial forces that would claim dominion over this galaxy. No, I fight to save the hope of a brighter future, the dream that began life when the first expeditionary fleets set sail upon the Great Ocean.’

Magnus drew his golden khopesh and raised it high.

‘I fight with Horus only until we break open my father’s Palace! And when its gates are sundered and its vaults forced, I will reclaim the first and greatest shard of my soul held prisoner beneath it!’

 

It's typical Magnus. He thinks he's the one pulling the strings, knowing better than anybody else, and that his own schemes are going to move the species forward. He lacks the humility to understand his own failings. There's no real "fall" to Chaos for him yet, the way it happened to Fulgrim or Angron, or even Horus, because he still does not accept Tzeentch as his patron god, still believing himself to be an independent genius somehow.

 

So from that angle, yes, Magnus still does not accept his own nature as a proper traitor. He's kept his Legion on the sidelines for years, while still listening in and communicating with the one side of the war that'd accept him, without ever truly declaring his allegiance - not until Ullanor, at least, and even then only as a pretense to get what he wants. Fury of Magnus will ideally serve to confront him with what he has become directly, involving his father and Arvida/Ianius, and force him to acknowledge his own fall for the first real time, with no escapes, excuses or hubris.

[Anarnii]

Interested to see which wolves are covered: "as well as a cadre of Space Wolves and Salamanders who have appeared as major characters in previous Horus Heresy novels".

 

Howl of the Hearthworld doesn't really qualify as a major character in a novel. 

 

Bodvar Bjarki and his watch pack from Crimson King seems like the most obvious choice, however it wouldn't really call them major characters.

 

To be honest im happy with any extra wolves in the siege series as i was only really expecting to see Russ and Corvus (as well as Ultramarines and Dark angels) in either book 10 "breaking the siege" of book 1 of a scouring series.

[DarkChaplain]

Keep in mind that they also consider anthologies novels in the series, for some reason. That's been a bugbear I've had with their marketing for years. Then again, I'd be surprised if we weren't going to see the Crimson Fist group, including Yasu Nagasena.

[Prot]

Have you missed Thief of Revelations, The Crimson King, the Primarchs novel, Morningstar or Slaves to Darkness? Magnus isn't claiming ignorance - he's claiming the opposite. He is still full of himself in a sense of believing he is righteous, he is not being manipulated, he is in control, his defiance is for the best, and that his father is wrong somewhere along the line. He does not side with Horus out of a belief that Horus is correct, or that his brothers are better for their ascensions - he does so out of sheer arrogance and a desire to fulfill his own desires. He's exploiting the ensuring chaos to do his own thing on the side, and supports the Warmaster in so far as it'll get him closer to recovering his final shard.

 

 

Yes I've read those. I don't think it's as simple as quoting moments from speeches. I believe given certain circumstances, he is prone to say certain things to specific audiences. 

 

I was speaking on a much more personal level. Sometimes we are dishonest to our selves, but can have truthful moments.

 

Specifically, the actual moment I'm talking about... there is no doubt he is 100% manipulated (as per the scene description of his 'warning' to the Emperor).

 

Anyway, more to the point...Why I am looking forward to this is I think this is a chance to perhaps see his inner deconstruction of events. Be it that he has buried the past and has a full hate on, or he has remorse, or whatever... I want to give Graham a chance here.

 

Conversely, as always, if any of you think enough has been said on the matter, then feel free to skip the novel. 

[mc warhammer]

vulcan v magnus apparently implied by McNeil in WD. makes some sense

[Dumah]

vulcan v magnus apparently implied by McNeil in WD. makes some sense

Clash of the Titans!

[DarkChaplain]

Would make sense, considering Vulkan is the "closest" to the Emperor right now, holding the dungeon/webway. It stands to reason that Magnus would try to use that avenue, especially since he suspects his shard to be around there.

It's also a pretty interesting couple, two Primarchs that never really got time together throughout the series. What does Vulkan think of Magnus, what does Magnus think of Vulkan? They're not the usual archrivals, or even brothers with actual pre-existing tensions, as far as I'm aware. If anything, I'd wager that the two of them would've worked reasonably well together during the Great Crusade, with one providing practical education and the other theoretical to compliant worlds. Swords to plowshares, building libraries and raising people up.

 

Should be interesting to see them have a chat for once.

[Fedor]

Nice. I hope he avoids doing what Abnett did in Unremembered Empire by showing off Vulkan's immortality by having him killed repeatedly. That could be an easy trap to fall into when up against Magnus and his psyker abilities.

[Kelborn]

Oh that sounds intriguing, count me in.

 

Don't think we'll gonna see a Hulkan 2.0

 

Something related to his Beast Arises fate and if he can truly die, slight hints nothing fixed, would be interesting as Chaos sorcery is something Vulkan didn't faced against until now. Or did I miss something again?

So the sorcerer aspect against the immortal & kind aspect.

[Indefragable]

I think Vulkan and Magnus would be more of an awesome samurai showdown.

 

“Move aside, Vulkan, I have no quarrel with you.”

 

“No do I with you, brother. But you shall not pass.”

[Moonreaper666]

In the old lore didn't Magnus destroy the last wall/gate of the Imperial Palace along with many Blood Angels and Custodes?

[StrangerOrders]

So, anyone have bets for when it will come up for preorder? I am assuming it will be after the apocalypse has blow over but specifically when?

 

My gut says late summer with winter at latest.

[theSpirea]

Very hard to predict at this point. We don't know when BL starts operating again and if they are going to postpone all the planned releases or they will rush everything out quickly to catch up. I guess it depends on how long they stay shut.