Ragnar Blackmane: Saga of the Beast

[Roomsky]

Anyone given this a listen yet?

 

I thought it was a fun audio, the voice acting is good as usual, and as someone who doesn't follow 8th ed. developments outside of Black Library I'd say it was worth the 4.5 hours. 

 

While there's plenty of spectacle, it falls on the less action-oriented side of Annandale's works. It has a fair bit of the introspection that I think he does well, and follows his usual spiritual odyssey tropes: enormous creatures, epic journeys, and everything but the kitchen sink thrown in for good measure. For the same reason, it did feel a bit all over the place, it's very Annandale and won't be changing anyone's opinions on his work. For a wyrd bonding Ragnar and Ghazghkull, we see less of the ork than I would have expected. That said, the scenes from Thraka's POV are definitely the highlight of the drama, Annandale nails the character's voice, and makes him noticeably different from the more standard orks surrounding him.

 

This doesn't tell the full tale found in the Psychic Awakening supplement, but it works better for it in my opinion; it ends exactly when it should. I'm curious if this is doing well, and if we'll see a sequel covering the rest of it. 

 

While I'm eternally thankful BL's team isn't being forced to cover big events on the tabletop anymore, I appreciate something that actually goes over the recent developments. I hope more authors jump on these opportunities in future, or even better, start backfilling. We still don't have a coherent account of Wrath of Magnus.

 

I'd give it a strong 6 to light 7 out of 10.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Roomsky

[Kelborn]

Wanted to start a thread by myself but laziness won. ;)

 

I enjoyed it, as well. It's not on the same level as Realmslayer but it's still one of the better audiodramas.

 

Seconded, Ghaz' scenes were also my personal highlights. Steven Conlin really nailed Ghaz. Would love to habe a seperate only Ork themed one.

 

My only issue would be the voice acting of Ragnar. It reminded me too often of Thanquol from the Realmslayer audios. Once I finally reckognized the actor I couldn't stop hearing it.

 

Besides that, a good story and audio. And yes, I'd be down for backfilling and that stuff!

[b1soul]

...I just can't get over the silliness of both of them dying and being resurrected, like a 12 year old is in charge of the creative department at GW

[Lord Marshal]

...I just can't get over the silliness of both of them dying and being resurrected, like a 12 year old is in charge of the creative department at GW

We've already had "HAHA I WAS ONLY A HOLOGRAM!" in PA:1, so just think of the dumbest play fight you had as a kid and pay 'professionals' to write it.

[DarkChaplain]

...I just can't get over the silliness of both of them dying and being resurrected, like a 12 year old is in charge of the creative department at GW

 

One was mortally wounded and only seems to have died insofar as every Astartes dies when crossing the rubicon. They need to turn it off then back on again, after all. Yes, Ragnar was a wreck, but saved in ways that aren't far off from what we've already seen anyway.

 

Ghaz? He had his head chopped of. We know very little about how ork biology works, but seeing how Waaagh energy makes their vehicles run instead of exploding, and they can gestalt-will things into beings in a sense, I don't find it too far-fetched for the Mad Dok to screw his head back on, do some tinkering and get the bloke back into working order.

 

Thraka already had his head smashed in at the start of his career, resulting in extensive bionics via said Mad Dok. His brain was already what, a third pulp and then rebuilt to the point where Gazghkull became a psyker, building the rest of his career on his role as Waaagh-Oracle, channelling the Ork consciousness and all that jazz.

 

Considering that this has all been part of the lore for seemingly forever, I don't know what's so absurd about his "death" and resurrection. Maybe Grotsnik put Windows onto the bionic partition of his brain, so restoring from backup wasn't an issue in the first place.

 

Ragnar should've brought a Melta, had he wanted to finish the job. Then again, Lufgt Huron is still around and kicking, with just a mild case of occasional dementia or somesuch.

Edited April 21, 2020 by DarkChaplain

[Fedor]

From what i've come across on other sites, the Ghaz vs Ragnar lore and idea of a Marine captain being able to stand up to the supposed mightiest ork in the Galaxy has riled a lot of people into a frenzy. It seems to have become more a battleground for how xenos are treated by GW than anything else.

 

I've not read the BL take on it, but it seems any author had a mountain to climb in turning around the reaction to the studio lore.

[Kelborn]

Just a side note:

It is truly covered in the Ork codex that a chopped off head continues to live for a while, enabling Dokks to stitch them to the body again.

 

So nothing new and weird stuff happening in here.

[Robbienw]

From what i've come across on other sites, the Ghaz vs Ragnar lore and idea of a Marine captain being able to stand up to the supposed mightiest ork in the Galaxy has riled a lot of people into a frenzy. It seems to have become more a battleground for how xenos are treated by GW than anything else.

 

I've not read the BL take on it, but it seems any author had a mountain to climb in turning around the reaction to the studio lore.

To be fair though Ragnar has always been shown to be a cut above an average Captain/wolf lord. First captain type status.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Orks surviving as just heads has existed for literally as long as Orks have actually been a thing. Hell, back in Rogue Trader days they not only had the squig-brain transplant (which still exists in current fluff), but “dual occupancy bodies”, where the Painboy runs out of spare bodies for a viable head, so just stitches it onto another Orks body and tinkers with the nervous system (using safety pins and rubber bands), resulting in them both controlling an arm each. Sometimes they even get fancy and graft two additional arms on, so you end up with a six-limbed, two-headed Ork.

 

As for Ghaz getting taken down by a Captain, Ragnar’s one of the best single combatants in the galaxy, and Ghaz took him down too. If it were Captain Bob of the GeneriMarines, then sure, you can get angry.

[Fedor]

The belief seems to be that Ghaz as supposedly being much stronger now than in the past and the galaxies current most dominant warboss/current orky prophet should more realistically be by now far beyond being defeated by any individual Marine in a direct melee and be getting closer to the likes of the prime orks from the Beast series, or some of the more formidable 30k ones.

 

I don't care much myself, but it's amusing seeing the amount of annoyance it has generated.

[Roomsky]

Re: the Ragner v Thraka matchup:

 

The audio makes it clear there are a lot of convenient circumstances that allow Ragnar the kill. Thraka knows he is destined to face Blackmane but isn't sure why, and he's prioritizing a good scrap over being lethal. He's talking for most of the fight as well and didn't come across as too serious about it. Based on the narration it came across as Thraka outmatching Ragnar in most capacities, and Ragnar only gets the decapitation strike because he got catapulted at Thraka's face. 

 

Obviously it won't salve many who are genuinely annoyed by the outcome, but I got the impression that if Thraka were serious he could have won quite handily.

[b1soul]

I would've preferred it if there was a definitive winner to be honest, and the losing side manages to crawl back from near-death via Rubicon or head reattachment or whatever

 

Having both be

grievously wounded unto death in one fight and both coming back...is about as juvenile as it gets and a tactic to pander to both fanbases. 12 year old writing and lame in my book.

[Bobss]

I haven't read/listened to this and I don't intend to either (so I'm automatically talking guff let's be honest, and I'm probably going to unfairly criticise Annandale's work here never mind the guy who drew the gorgeous art for this... and I try to avoid dumping on Black Library's stable most of the time...), but I just want to chime in on a few points I've skimmed through

 

So like, what does this achieve? We have always known that Ragnar will be Grimnar's successor as Chapter Master of the Space Wolves. This guy has a huge list of feats both in- and out of Black Library material. He's a living legend and one of the most iconic Wolves that isn't Russ, Bjorn or Grimnar. The setup was already there. Likewise, we already know that Thrakka is the principal Ork threat in the galaxy and is on the road to Krork-status. Orks are sort of like galactic vermin that keep things in check, but Thrakka is what puts their threat level on par with Abaddon, the Nids and the Crons. Kinda, but whatever. That's cool. We already knew this and it was totally fine and likeable and acceptable and slotted nicely into the galactic ballet of the lore and on the tabletop where every player felt his faction had a place and significance and inertia as of 999.M41 and/or post-Fall of Cadia whichever you prefer

 

Then this came along and wrecked all of that. I don't really care about all of the caveats and in-context details and bits and bobs that can be debated here - the fact is someone, somewhere decided to pick two well-established characters and smash them together, building something out of the rubble that is quite literally weaker than what already existed. What is the actual net gain for the IP here? All of this Psychic Awakening stuff is either of no consequence or is actively damaging things that were already great and were already enjoyed. I'm not too keen on the post-Fall of Cadia setting, but I will acknowledge that Guilliman's Return presents us with a nice new sandbox to read about and play within - in fact some of the best novels I've read in years have been set in this time period. There is plenty of potential that is only just beginning to be tapped into

 

But regarding 'Saga of the Beast,' what untapped well does this bring to the table - and is this as deep and nourishing as the well we had before? I'm not going to take two cars that I own (I don't own two cars or even one fyi) and race them against each other, full well knowing which one is faster, then take the slower car and crash it and make a metal hut out of its burnt-out bones. Yeah, sure, I've made something but it doesn't have the value of what I once had

 

I feel like this is more of a lore discussion/a thinly-veiled merchandising discussion instead of actually critiquing the quality of the product like Roomsky intended, but the decades of xenos fans/players complaining about poor treatment is starting to check out. Believe it or not but Space Marines are much cooler when they are losing, but standing defiant, in the face of insurmountable odds. 100+ Grey Knight terminators charging Angron with a wall of thrice-blessed silver, storm bolters roaring and hearts thundering in unison? That's it, mane. One big Grey Knight mech duking it out with Angron? Eh, I'll pass. A small command squad of Space Marines - literally the last remaining members of their entire Chapter - defending a hill, pulling their dead into the relative safety of their centre, firing their last few rounds before switching to gladii? Give me more! Space Marines taking on and beating giant Orks and Tyranid constructs and Greater Demons? Not my cup of tea

Edited April 23, 2020 by Bobss

[Kelborn]

Imho it would have had more importance or a bigger impact if released before Prophecies of the Wolf.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but we already knew how that duel would end because of the Warhammer Community previews.

 

Having this audio as first release/ tease to the new box would have made its impact way more significant.

 

Reactions like "Holy ****! What happened? Did GW/ BL really do that? Dude ...!" would be the case. Afterwards, the preview/ release of the Prophecies of the Wolf would be a logic follow-up.

 

Instead, it's a nice audio, giving us some backstory of an event teased by GW. But...nothing more. Nothing of impact. Just a nice addition.

[b1soul]

I'm OK with Space Marines winning or losing, but this

 

lame tie is the equivalent of two prizefighters going into the ring and simulataneously KOing each other

 

It just strikes me as something thought up by a 12 year old

 

Just have the bollocks to have one side win and the other side can take time to lick its wounds and plot revenge

[DarkChaplain]

This is no different from Horus vs the Emperor. The Emperor "won", but is so grievously wounded, he gets entombed on his Throne. This stuff happens. A lot. The "Hero" rarely defeats the big baddie without harm, and more often than not, when they do, it's probably down to even worse writing than this.

 

Ragnar "won". He beheaded Thraka, at the cost of his own life. He got scraped off the floor by his dudes and reanimated in a previously established way, but he did the deed and "survived" longer than Thraka. That the big greenie meanie has a mad dok who knows his job on payroll and abused a quirk of ork biology to restore him doesn't change the fact that there was a pretty clear outcome of their fight. A tie would imply that neither side was able to score against the other in a significant enough way to achieve victory. But Ragnar did, while expending all he had in him. He went in being willing to stake his life on this, and succeeded, whereas Thraka did not stave him off.

 

Thraka toyed with another rival, as he did with Yarrick before (heck, he let the Commissar leave on a private shuttle after surviving Golgotha!), got slain, but was 'ard enough to have his head screwed back on and probably looking for a rematch, this time maybe with him taking Ragnar as a serious foe.

[Kelborn]

Remind me, guys.

What was a pyrrhic victory again? ;)

[b1soul]

Yeah...this is quite different from Horus vs. the Emperor in some obvious ways (to me)

 

If you think they're similar, I could just agree to disagree.

[DarkChaplain]

Care to elaborate on why you think it's quite different? One could even make the comparison that Horus' body was recovered by the Sons of Horus, stolen by everyone's favorite 40k Mad Scientist and cloned with at least some semblance of the original's character and prowess.

[b1soul]

I think Ragnar vs. Ghaz would be more similar to Emperor vs. Horus if the results were:

 

Ragnar entombed in some sort of immobile dreadnought

 

Ghaz dead as a dodo

 

I wouldn't have found this to be as silly.

[Kelborn]

Which would strip GW of two of their Most iconic models/ characters.

 

And don't forget that this audio intended to give us the teaser background for Prophecies of the Wolf. It is not an independent story of its own.

 

Again, I would've found the order releases to be better if this audio did came first. But in the end, it's additional background for their two newest models, explaining their changes, etc.

 

So the train of thought about if the story is poor (which it is not) and the execution is rather obsolete, I fear.

[b1soul]

How about Ghaz winning and Ragnar seeking Primarisation (and bionics) to help with the rematch.

 

Or even Ghaz truly dying and his spores being used to create Prime Orks by the mad dok.

 

Or some combination of the ideas above.

 

Anything other than a pointless double-KO and both get right back up to carry on as before.

[Roomsky]

If they were to actually give one the axe, it should have been Ragnar. I'll take both of them being injured unto death and coming back stronger than killing off the Ork's most iconic character to hype a Space Wolf / have yet ANOTHER named marine pass the rubicon without issue.

 

Some famous marines still need to die tbh. I continue to have a hard time believing a galaxy of perpetual warfare has left practically all of them unscathed.

 

That said, I don't think the fluff we got was great either, but as an audio adapting an excuse for models into an actual story, I think Annandale does well.

[b1soul]

"That said, I don't think the fluff we got was great either, but as an audio adapting an excuse for models into an actual story, I think Annandale does well."

 

Yes, Annandale makes do with what he's been given

 

"If they were to actually give one the axe, it should have been Ragnar."

 

I think Dreadnought Ragnar would also be acceptable either after losing to Ghaz or beating him ("acceptable" to me of course)

 

Primaris Ragnar would rob the the defeat of long-term consequences for the character, but would be more acceptable if Ragnar had simply been bested by the monstrous Ork.

 

A draw where Ghaz simply has his head reattached and Ragnar becomes a bigger stronger marine...rubs me the wrong way as a childish cop-out (my opinion of course) and does not resemble Horus vs. the Emperor in that the latter involved permanent crippling and actual death

 

Some people might enjoy a double-KO, just not my taste