Fabius Bile: Manflayer - HYPE THREAD (by Josh Reynolds)

[Sandlemad]

A few characters get lengthy introductions and then essentially disappear from the story, while others are exposited about and suddenly have payoff without much setup. Again, this isn’t an issue with the core cast, but there are a few surprises that come more from missing scenes rather than anything intentional by Reynolds. I can only assume this is because the final version was cut down from his initial drafts, so I don’t lay the blame on the author. As noted in this thread, there’s also a few major plot points that happened off-screen, and it makes me wonder if this was intended to be a trilogy in the first place, rather than 4 or 5 books.

 

 

Yes, this is a curious one. It's apparent by looking at the list of things Reynolds had mentioned earlier, some of which didn't make the final draft (on reddit here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/d2rgug/fabius_bile_book_3_manflayer_info_some_spoilers/)

Unfortunate in particular that we didn't get Maqos-Queen Spohr on the veranda with Bile. Their relationship was a good one. Same with actually seeing Lady Malys.

 

RE: the sizeable bit that we expected and doesn't feature in Manflayer, namely 

Bile's time in Commorragh

, I'm not sure. Certainly there's enough theoretical material in there to make a whole novel and Reynolds would certainly do great things with it, but if the plan changed it must have been relatively early in the writing process as that time-jump and its implications felt pretty core to what Manflayer seems to do with Bile's character. The regret, the feelings of hurt and betrayal from the other members of the Consortium, the split/civil war among some of his other followers. I quite like that kind of 'trick' in other fiction. Here it wasn't eked out particularly slowly but the shock of gradually realising what Bile and Igori's relationship was now like worked on me.

[DarkChaplain]

(maybe he’ll return one day, if Mitchell and King did anything can happen.)

 

Anything but the release of Umbra Sumus, it seems like :')

 

As eager as I am to get on Manflayer, I ended up opting for a full trilogy read back to back for this one. I just wouldn't have felt right about it otherwise, somehow. So I'm back to reading Primogenitor right now. Who needs to actually finish reading all those classics I am halfway through already? Pah. Ain't no stopping this Bile-train... unless you're Black Library and neglecting your authors.

Edited June 26, 2020 by DarkChaplain

[Bobss]

Just finished this beast of a hardback. A definite 5/5 or 9/10 for sure, but perhaps not quite the equal of Clonelord on a book-versus-book basis. Either way, it still served as an excellent wrapping up of the trilogy and developed a lot of the previous titles' themes to their natural conclusion - with a surprisingly awesome epilogue to boot!

 

There isn't anything I can say that Sandlemad or Roomsky haven't already said themselves that I can add to the discussion and praise of Manflayer

 

That being said...

 

This book loses a point for its pacing and its focus. I felt like Act #1 was overly long, Act#2 was too short and Act#3 was the only well-balanced section of the book with the Battle of Belial IV being a short-but-sweet fighting withdrawal showcasing plenty of awesome things

 

I lay the blame firmly on the Dark Eldar chapters. Most of them felt the same with Hexachires posturing, Oleander hanging at his heels and Veilwalker popping up to be smug and mysterious. I felt like at least 3-4 of these chapters could've been condensed or even outright removed and the page-time given to something else - such as the fallout from Bile's disappearance over the timeskip, and the resulting civil war among the Gland-hounds or the attitudes of the newer/older Consortium members

 

In fact as much as I loved Oleander's reintroduction, acting as our fly on the wall in the Dark Eldar camp, and having his story come full-circle was also a nice touch, I feel like it didn't merit the page-time it consumed at all. It all felt very self-gratuitous, even if it was written brilliantly

 

Again, this is a minor quibble for an otherwise incredible book, but I consider the previous entry, Clonelord to be one of the best Black Library novels ever published, so it is what it is!

[Bulwyf]

I finished Manflayer two days ago. I absolutely loved this trilogy. I have been a fan of GW since the mid 1980's. I've ready virtually every BL or GW published story over the years. I have never had a book or trilogy truly move how I feel about a character or Legion/Chapter. Some novels might darken a view or uplift another view but truly change? Never.

 

Until this series. Fabius Bile is the quintessential mad scientist that has no morals, twirls his fringe of head hair and cackles while he makes monsters. There was nothing deeper to him just a mad man who somehow is the Chief Apothecary for a Legion and over the 10k years is just a nutso who makes monsters and mutants.

 

This trilogy upended that view completely on its arse.  Now we have a deeply engaging character who has noble aspirations to try and save humanity from himself and a "Chaos" character that actively hates Chaos. I understand Manflayer had to end with Bile being far more closer to what we have seen in the codex over the  years. And it does much IMO to the detriment of the character.

 

There is still a new Bile in there and it does end with him emerging triumphant in his own unique way against all that has been put against him. We leave him processing new Primaris and trying to come up with a Chaos equivalent to match.  

 

I have read much of why Josh Reynolds is leaving BL but if there is any chance he can come back I pray it does happen. His works in 40k and AoS are truly excellent. 

[hopkins]

Incredible book!! As good as anything by the big guns like Abnett, ADB and Wraight. Such a shame that was his last novel for BL

[mc warhammer]

enjoying it so far. three thoughts:

1. i'm enjoying the parallels between fabius and the emperor

 

2. i'm less enjoying melusine and vielwalker sauntering through almost every scene. it's getting a bit monty python spanish inquisition. then again, it does make it feel more like a theatre play...which might be the intent

 

3. the positioning of fabius as the erebus of the III legion. much better than "the sword did it" and an added layer to fulgrim's fall

 

[Bobss]

enjoying it so far. three thoughts:

2. i'm less enjoying melusine and vielwalker sauntering through almost every scene. it's getting a bit monty python spanish inquisition. then again, it does make it feel more like a theatre play...which might be the intent

 

Massively agree with this. There were far too many scenes with Veilwalker, Oleander, Hexachires and Melusine standing around being smug and mysterious. There must be a good 5+ examples, many of which felt fairly redundant. It's not necessarily a bad thing, because everything Josh Reynolds writes is gold, but it comes across as self-gratuitous and bothers me because this page count could've been used for better effect elsewhere e.g. fleshing out the Gland-hounds' civil war that erupted in Fabius' absence

 

Seeing Oleander again was great, but honestly, outside of [plot reason] he could've stayed dead/disappeared and it wouldn't have changed much. In fact, outside of [plot reason] he basically serves as a window into the Deldar camp which wasn't absolutely crucial - albeit immensely enjoyable

 

As for Melusine, she is by far the weakest link in the trilogy, and for such a pivotal character she is pretty wishy-washy and flat out unlikeable compared to the other factions and players. Every single Melusine scene in the series could've been stripped out and replaced with Igori or Arrian and it would've been an objective improvement

 

Still an excellent book though which lays waste to anything short of The Regent's Shadow or Saturnine released this year

[mc warhammer]

 

enjoying it so far. three thoughts:

2. i'm less enjoying melusine and vielwalker sauntering through almost every scene. it's getting a bit monty python spanish inquisition. then again, it does make it feel more like a theatre play...which might be the intent

 

Massively agree with this. There were far too many scenes with Veilwalker, Oleander, Hexachires and Melusine standing around being smug and mysterious. There must be a good 5+ examples, many of which felt fairly redundant. It's not necessarily a bad thing, because everything Josh Reynolds writes is gold, but it comes across as self-gratuitous and bothers me because this page count could've been used for better effect elsewhere e.g. fleshing out the Gland-hounds' civil war that erupted in Fabius' absence

 

Seeing Oleander again was great, but honestly, outside of [plot reason] he could've stayed dead/disappeared and it wouldn't have changed much. In fact, outside of [plot reason] he basically serves as a window into the Deldar camp which wasn't absolutely crucial - albeit immensely enjoyable

 

As for Melusine, she is by far the weakest link in the trilogy, and for such a pivotal character she is pretty wishy-washy and flat out unlikeable compared to the other factions and players. Every single Melusine scene in the series could've been stripped out and replaced with Igori or Arrian and it would've been an objective improvement

 

Still an excellent book though which lays waste to anything short of The Regent's Shadow or Saturnine released this year

 

largely agree. you could have halved the oleander parts and still had more or less the same book.

 

and if there's one criticism i have of reynold's writing is that he can be repetitive. not just with phrasing or character reactions on high rotation, but sometimes entire paragraphs resurface paraphrased a chapter or two later.

 

all in all, a great read. i tore through it with more gusto than saturnine, which i also enjoyed.

 

 

* i've seen people say this book gets rid of the fabius of the trilogy to set up the more familiar fabius of lore, getting us up to date with current 40k. i might be reading the ending incorrectly but...not quite? doesn't it more have the trilogy fabius step off stage for a while, allowing his clones to run amuck to create the lore that fabius is known for, before bringing back the OG to pick up where he left off? in a way, it basically gives everyone their cake after they eat it?

 

* damn there's some funny bits in this book. bird obsessed apothecaries are great. dark eldar are great.

 

* arrian's death was brief, but really fitting and kinda lovely. in a world-eaters-lovely way.

 

* beyond the parallels with the emperor that fabius brings up himself, there's a clear mirroring in the beats of his story and the emperors: both wish to have humanity ascend to the next level. both are too impatient to wait on evolution. both had their creations rebel and leave them. both have a favoured child fall to chaos (though melusine is not horus). both bargain/trade with dangerous forces for knowledge, both betray them and in both cases those forces come knocking on their door resulting in a siege. both are potentially cribbing the birth of a new god.

 

yeah, i know some of the above about the emperor ain't confirmed, but still. parallels.

 

* reynolds writes primarchs well. pre chaos and post chaos. real shame he was never given a horus heresy book.

 

* the EC not being overly happy with what they have become and pining to be heroes once again is a great angle.

 

thinking of fabius' whole new men schtick and how they're also somewhat descended from primarchs...is there any fiction on what fabius thinks of custodes?

[Sandlemad]

 

* i've seen people say this book gets rid of the fabius of the trilogy to set up the more familiar fabius of lore, getting us up to date with current 40k. i might be reading the ending incorrectly but...not quite? doesn't it more have the trilogy fabius step off stage for a while, allowing his clones to run amuck to create the lore that fabius is known for, before bringing back the OG to pick up where he left off? in a way, it basically gives everyone their cake after they eat it?

 

 

I think this is basically it, yeah. 

 

It's a sort of bait and switch. Trilogy/Reynolds Fabius dies having lost most of what we liked from the trilogy, very sad. The clones do their thing for a few millennia, enacting more or less everything we see from Fabius in other fiction (Swallow's Blood Angels stories, St Martin's Lucius book, most stuff that crops up in codices or timelines) without the charm or likeability we have come to expect from the weird old man in the Reynolds books. Then wow, Trilogy Fabius reappears, cracks his knuckles and gets to business, yay, he's back!

 

Giving everyone their cake after they've eaten it is a good way of looking at it. The familiar Fabius of lore is there and with an in-universe Watsonian trick that allows for any discrepancies of character between authors. It shows a real deft touch when it comes to writing within an IP or shared universe. Reynolds managed to put his own stamp on a character, make it deviate from other portrayals, and then 'merge it back' into the wider IP in a fashion that doesn't invalidate other folks' work while still drawing a line under the events of the trilogy, but without making his three books feel like a 'what might have been' for the character.

 

(of course there's still a little bit of pathos that comes with knowing Reynolds probably isn't going to write Bile ever again and that whatever next Bile-centric won't live up to this - War of the Spider was fine, just a bit meh - but hey, now we have a Watsonian mechanism for dealing with depictions of Bile we don't like. Doesn't gel with what you enjoyed about Bile in Primogenitor/Clonelord/Manflayer? No worries, that was a Doombot clone!