BA and 9th Ed

[NiftyVT]

Looks like we’re getting rolled into the Space Marine codex. (+ supplement)

 

Yeah, but I think its just a stop gap. I think we will still get a supplement. I would suspect that the supplement would be like the old ones with faction specific units only plus expanded strats, traits etc. Maybe even an Angels of Death book (like the real old school one)  with Dark Angels thrown in too. 

[Pavement Artist]

Basically. It's going to be like 3rd Ed. It just means you're always going to be in line with the main book.

[NiftyVT]

The new tank! YES! They have a twin BURRRT option!

[Thoridon]

As someone planning work on a couple of chapters I like the idea of having one big codex for core Space Marine units and then smaller supplements for chapter-specific stuff. It means the specific chapter booklets won’t be full of duplicate generic datasheets. If we go that way I’d be in favour of that - and removing any issues of Codex chapters getting different rules/points for generic units while we might have to wait for an update to get parity.

 

Being able to just buy one big Codex and then small supplements for each chapter would keep things cleaner and better organised.

[Indefragable]

Fans of Red Marines and/or doing everything Guilliman says rejoice.

 

We are officially now a supplement to Codex: Space Marines (9th Ed).

[SnorriSnorrison]

Interesting to see we’re getting rolled into C:SM. I must say that I like the idea of having a supplement for us sooner rather than later, so that’s an idea I can get behind. Of course we’ll lose some of the individuality we’ve been enjoying since 5th edition, but that might be offset by the goodies we’re possibly in store for.

 

Other thoughts:

 

- so Blood of Baal will be useless after the supplement hits? I suppose they’ll just roll PA into the new books ...

- otherwise, taking a whole bookshelf to a game does not spark joy.

- I hope our standalone units won’t be watered down and appear in C:SM in any way, or get legend’d.

- I’m certain we’ll see a new Dante model with the BA supplement.

- the new tank needs to grow on me I think. It looks alright from the front, but I already dislike the impulsor and this really needs to knock one out of the park to be considered. Also, that seems to be the new Baal Primaris.

- waiting for the Primaris Land Speeder.

[Panzer]

I'm perfectly fine with getting rolled into the main codex ever since GW decided to give all the vanilla chapters their own supplements as well. At that point there was not much reason to keep us separated anymore.

[Blindhamster]

i think its exactly what should happen. Just because we go as core marines + supplement doesn't mean we will lose all our unique units. Ultramarines kept theirs, i imagine we'll keep most of ours too as a result.

Chances are that as part of a supplement release, we'll also see a character too, so fingers crossed for primaris dante folks.

 

for people like my buddy Indefragable who may be concerned about losing character - consider the fact that a supplement will:

• include characters (although i could see this being the point characters like tycho finally go the way of legends - which is fine
• include relics (plus we'll get access to all the core marine ones! hello burning blade!)
• include unique stratagems (plus we'll get access to all the core marines ones - hurrah)
• include unique psychic powers (plus we'll get access to the core marine ones - more options hurrah)
• include at least some unique units (i'd bet on: Baal Predator, Furioso dread, death company, death company dread, librarian dread, sanguinary guard and death company intercessors all staying - because they have current plastic models).

All the above are things other marine supplements had (ultramarines having examples of all the above, the others having everything but the units).

 

Really it just means that them managing the faction is easier, which is smart and really the best way to go.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Blindhamster

[Xenith]

Whoa,I look away for one day and... where is this supplement stuff coming from?

[Blindhamster]

Was announced today. We are now in the main codex for our base rules and will use a supplement like all the other chapters for out other stuff. They confirmed we will keep all the current units

[Jolemai]

I gather we'll use our Codex + FAQ for the unique stuff, new book for the generic at the start of 9th.

Hopefully without headaches...

[Jolemai]

New BRB

Chapter approved

Codex

Codex FAQ

Blood of Baal

FAQ

New Marine Codex

(FAQ)

FW book

FW FAQ

[Blindhamster]

I have a feeling we may see the other three chapters be relatively early in the 9th ed roundup to be honest. At which point the book requirement will drop again. If marines are october. I could see DA being November, BA in December and SW in January. Kind of like the other marine supplements before

[SnorriSnorrison]

I have a feeling we may see the other three chapters be relatively early in the 9th ed roundup to be honest. At which point the book requirement will drop again. If marines are october. I could see DA being November, BA in December and SW in January. Kind of like the other marine supplements before

Sounds realistic, I think they'll shell out these supplements either in succession or together in waves like the other First Founding chapters.

Apparently information was seen regarding a new chapter tactic for the wolves - it seems they might be able to heroically intervene with all of their units. That would be insanely strong, but it makes me wonder if us and DA will also get their chapter tactics updated with the supplement.

[Blindhamster]

didn't wolves get pretty much that with saga of the beast?

 

ours and flesh tearers seem to follow the rules from blood of baal.

[Indefragable]

 

for people like my buddy Indefragable who may be concerned about losing character - consider the fact that a supplement will:

<snip>

 

I am concerned about losing character. For anyone new to this whole thing, a few of us have had long running conversations about the pros/cons of being our own codex vs being part of Codex: SM with some tweaks (ala Black Templars, et al). 

 

Also, in the spirt of self-awareness, I also play 30k which is exactly the single book for all SM units + "supplements" to make each Legion unique model. So I definitely see the potential merits of that. 

 

My thoughts:

Hidden Content

In short, I'm all about the glory of the past and the hope of the future. Being part of C:SM feels like a half-done middle ground. 

 

It's more of a big picture or philosophical thing, but for me, I would prefer to see more differentiation among subfactions in the game rather than less. I would love to see Codex: Catachans or Codex: Farsight Enclaves or Codex: Ork Pirates or such. The reason separate books, rather than book+supplement, can facilitate that is that you could then have Codex: White Scars have bikes as Troops, or have Codex: Salamanders remove jump pack and land speeder* units entirely, yet allow every imaginable unit to have thunder hammers, hand flamers, and melta stuff. When everyone shares the same core book, there is a natural inclination to standardize everything...and the stuff that isn't standardized creates bloat. Do you want to pay an extra $10 for 30pages explaining what the Black Templars can/can't do? Having separate books also allows the community to have its cake and eat it too: if you want to play Red Marines or White Marines, you can use Codex: SM. If you want to play Blood Angels or White Scars, then you have your own entirely different way of doing that. 

 

Imagine being able to take Assault Marines (or the Primaris equiv) as Troops again...

 

Imagine a Flesh Tearers and Lamenters supplement to Codex: Blood Angels........faaaaaar less likely to happen if we're part of the Guilliman's private estate. 

 

I especially feel for Space Wolves....so much of their identity is wrapped up in being different and unique...you look at their boxes that just ooze with personality and then you look at Primaris and how bland.....makes you shudder (that's a bit subjective, but we can all agree at how their options have been greatly reduced). 

 

*traditional lore had it that the Salamanders did not use non-aircraft flying units due to the unstable gravity of their homeworld

 

 

Primaris in general, but this new direction with books as well, have a definite corporate merger feel to it: "don't worry, your job is not going to be eliminated. We're just going to have you train Bob on how to do it and move your desk to sub-basement 4 and don't worry if your paychecks stop showing up." My concerns (as stated elsewhere) is that Sanguinary Guard become a separate data sheet for Bladeguard Veterans; that Death Company become a secondary data sheet for Intercessors (and not the assault kind).....and in both cases we're restricted by the kit in the box (b/c that's how GW does everything now). Rather than the uniqueness and flavor and differentiation that currently exist, or could exist down the road. 

 

But I could be wrong and we'll just have to wait and see. I can certainly see things working out well for us on all accounts, but if past is precedence, then we are smart to be skeptical. 

 

Moving on, I do wonder if this means Red Centurions and Thunderfires. Just odd to me that after so many years of bending over backward to keep those from us (justifiably, some would say), we suddenly magically get them. 

 

 

New BRB

Chapter approved

Codex

Codex FAQ

Blood of Baal

FAQ

New Marine Codex

(FAQ)

FW book

FW FAQ

 

don't forget an app that barely works. 

 

 

**********

As a final note, I also seem to come off pessimistic when these changes happen. For the most part I am optimistic, but have to get my concerns out of the way. So don't interpret my reservations as ruining other kids' birthdays or some hyperbolic "i'm never playing this game again!" antics. As always, we each find the things we like or dislike about a change and find our own way to have fun with it. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Indefragable

[Spagunk]

Some people were not here for 3rd edition supplement codexes. They weren't "bad" but it definitely watered down a lot to fit the format. I think the worry is exactly that: watered down content/rules to fit the format. So please be kind as some have existing wounds and aren't easily able to rehash similar circumstances.

[Thoridon]

In a way I don’t expect any Chapter to be as ‘different’ with the change to Primaris as some currently are. If we all share 90% of units I can then see the Chapter-specific stuff being special characters, unique strategems and relics and then a couple of unique units. In our case I expect Primaris DC (full version with melee weapons) and a new Sanguinary Guard. I’m not sure we’ll see BA tanks as they can only sell those to us, but rather stratagems to make Primaris vehicles have a more BA feel to them.

 

It’s a lot easier for them stock-wise to give us a stratagem to turn something into a DC variant (the way we currently do with Captains etc.) than it is to have a completely different sculpted model.

 

We could then maybe see more Chapter upgrade sprues to customise models - one for infantry, one for Dreads, one for vehicles? That could take the place of a bunch of FW upgrade bits that went missing, but it’s simply a thought I had and not based on any rumour.

 

My main concern/question regarding 9th is if we will see both regular and Primaris datasheets for melee DC and Sanguinary Guard (if Primaris models are released) or if we’d see the older versions moved to Legends when that happens.

 

Depending on when we get a supplement we’ll probably just get a mix of the stratagems/relics from our last Codex and Blood of Baal, existing special characters and unique units we already have, plus a stratagem to convert assault intercessors into DC. So not much new but things rolled into one smaller book.

[Blindhamster]

Some people were not here for 3rd edition supplement codexes. They weren't "bad" but it definitely watered down a lot to fit the format. I think the worry is exactly that: watered down content/rules to fit the format. So please be kind as some have existing wounds and aren't easily able to rehash similar circumstances.

I started near the end of 2nd ed. And I've been hoping for this to happen since they successfully did it with horus heresy. To be fair there is a lot if lore in the other chapter supplements from 8th. Why would ours be worse?

[The Unseen]

I mean, if we don't lose any of our unique units, I'm fine with it.

 

It means we won't wait months for rule changes and updates to make it too us, along with SW, DW, and DA.

 

Having different points values and rules spread across all the different marine dexes was silly and confusing

And of the variant chapters, we were already the most codex compliant. SW are the least, but they still share 80% of the codex with vanilla marines, even if they name stuff differently.

And with Primaris already homogenizing everyone, was only a matter of time.

 

Plus, maybe we get centurions and such? I mean, sure, BA don't like/use them, but we have a lot of successors.

 

For the broader game, it will also help with space marine fatigue, as now well have one major marine codex release, and then supplements, and the supplements won't take up a whole month of release, as we saw with the last set, GW wont release 2 codexes together, but they will do a supplement and an unrelated codex.

So maybe half the release cycles won't be "more marines"

 

Also, I see that it's now MORE likely that smaller subfactions will get rules.

The BA book wont have to include the vast bulk of generic units, so that leaves more room for alternate chapter rules, relics, and characters.

 

Its a lot easier to squeeze in a few pages of rules for the Lamenters if you dont have 60+ pages of duplicate datasheets taking up space.

[Midnightmare]

Could hopefully mean Death Co Assault Intercessors sooner rather than later :tu:

 

Not exactly ecstatic about having to buy so many books mind.....

[Spagunk]

 

Some people were not here for 3rd edition supplement codexes. They weren't "bad" but it definitely watered down a lot to fit the format. I think the worry is exactly that: watered down content/rules to fit the format. So please be kind as some have existing wounds and aren't easily able to rehash similar circumstances.

I started near the end of 2nd ed. And I've been hoping for this to happen since they successfully did it with horus heresy. To be fair there is a lot if lore in the other chapter supplements from 8th. Why would ours be worse?

 

Unfortunately I started in 1999 right when 3rd edition was launched. I didn't know what I was missing until someone showed me Angels of Death. I was floored at how much lore and other info was in that book, despite having technically less units. The point for me was that I felt burned that I paid for two books (40 dollars was a lot to a teen) with relatively little information for blood angels. I SCRAMBLED for more lore and more information. How do these transfers fit in to BA livery? What's the command structure since there were these other units? What's with Dante? What does the back banner actually look like? What colors do 6th company use? All this information was gone in 3rd edition.

 

The nearest store that had Angels of Death wanted me to pay $50+ for a "rare" book. It was still early in Internet days so having a one stop shop for resources was not as plentiful as it is now (R.I.P. Ex Libris Mortis). Google wasn't a thing yet so I couldn't just image search for what I needed. So I was basically left floundering, trying to piece together what I thought a Blood Angel Army was.

 

That said, I don't think we'll go back to that explicit format. But, I am hesitant since they really expanded what Blood Angels on a whole have to offer that is different. I don't want to relive days when we were just red marines with a gimmick. So for me, saying we're only supplement worthy just opens a wound that I had the privilege to let heal. Hearing people with armies like Black Templars and stuff talk about how bad the supplement style has been for them really gives me pause to consider it a good thing.

 

Again, I speak for myself. This is how I feel about it. Not everyone considered the 3rd edition format ideal is all I am saying.

[Blindhamster]

Oh I agree. 3rd ed ones weren't great. But even the standalone codexes weren't.

 

My point was that the new supplements seem far far better :) plus core codex will include a bit about us now

[NiftyVT]

I just keep thinking. Cant have Dante without his Sang Guard friends.  That would be a sweet release along side a supplement. 

[SnorriSnorrison]

I just keep thinking. Cant have Dante without his Sang Guard friends. :D That would be a sweet release along side a supplement.

 

Dante and Sanguinary Guard means good-looking jump packs at least! Kinda bummed there are no new primaris JP units leaked in the new codex, seems like we have to wait another year for the next one. :D

 

On an unrelated note, despite the Baal predator being outshone by the flashy new grav-thing, I think it’ll be easier to field 2 Baals rather than 2 of the Gladiators since I expect them to cost around 250 points each at least...so we might still have an edge in that regard.

 

Other than that, I must say I’m not quite liking the artwork on the cover. I hope our supplement either uses our current artwork.

 

PS: I also hope that after this wave, that’ll be it for space marines in a while. There’s other armies that really could use some updated kits and rules.