9th edition implications for the GK

[Seizeman]

New storm shield is now 4++ and improves save characteristic by one. If Draigo's shield is still a regular storm shield and not his own thing, he now has, effectively, a 2++ save. I'm assuming they will change it to a named wargear that gives him a 3++, but we'll see.

[Corvus Fortis]

New storm shield is now 4++ and improves save characteristic by one. If Draigo's shield is still a regular storm shield and not his own thing, he now has, effectively, a 2++ save. I'm assuming they will change it to a named wargear that gives him a 3++, but we'll see.

 

 

Did they fix how modifiers work? If no, I am sure, It will be FAQed, because SS terminators and such stuff would be too good.  

Edited July 2, 2020 by Corvus Fortis

[Holier Than Thou]

New points. Add salt to taste: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lGSKz3i2l4PLCRRNnbv0vz7YfY0Nvt9kzArcBL8H_O8/htmlview

 

Have any other Faction's points been leaked or just Marines?

[Skywrath]

 

New points. Add salt to taste: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lGSKz3i2l4PLCRRNnbv0vz7YfY0Nvt9kzArcBL8H_O8/htmlview

 

Have any other Faction's points been leaked or just Marines?

 

 

Just marines it appears to be. However the weapon changes seem to be universal, as some weapons are found in other chapters.

[Skywrath]

From the new book of Psychic Awakening: Pariah. Interesting implications.

 

Garran,

 

I trust that this datascroll finds you hale and focused, for a great task lies before you. Your battle-brothers have need of you, Garran. You know to what damned world they travelled in league with the Lion’s sons. You know the perils they faced in order to halt the Cyclops’ ritual. It was fortune beyond mere providence that so many of our brethren reached safety in the battle’s wake, yet not all did. Some remain lost amidst a cursed wilderness, hunted by the damned. We shall not so lightly abandon our brothers, I think. You know your duty, Castellan. Do not fail them.

 

Thoughts? Seems like Kaldor is writing this.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Skywrath

[GranMasterAmarillo]

From the Warhammer 40,000 facebook page, about storm shields

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fkc8xmmhds32l0h/StormShield.png?dl=0

 

basically, storm shields and other weapons and wargear within indomitus datasheets are not the same as within the codexes

[Valerian]

From the Warhammer 40,000 facebook page, about storm shields

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fkc8xmmhds32l0h/StormShield.png?dl=0

 

basically, storm shields and other weapons and wargear within indomitus datasheets are not the same as within the codexes

Until there is an Errata, which we already knew.

[Icosiel]

One big thing that sucks for us is the change to the Command Re-roll stratagem. Now it rerolls the entire test, not just a single die. So we have to reroll both dice on a charge or neither of them. This made our already difficult charges that much harder to make.

[Corvus Fortis]

One big thing that sucks for us is the change to the Command Re-roll stratagem. Now it rerolls the entire test, not just a single die. So we have to reroll both dice on a charge or neither of them. This made our already difficult charges that much harder to make.

 

 

Charges are not nearly as important as they used to be. I am always dealing more damage from shooting/psychic, than in melee. Trying to go full-melee is a trap. You cannot rely onto 9" charges. I am not concerned about psychic at all, because we already can easily cast most of our powers on 3-6+ on 2d6. 

[Seizeman]

Having a worse reroll for charges is relevant, particularly when we already have FTtF available, but overall I think we will have more success charging than before.

 

First of all, the new vertical coherency makes charging units on elevated positions much easier.

 

Secondly, and arguably more important, now we get to declare charges for "free". In 8th, it wasn't worth to declare charges against units 10"+ away (sometimes 8"+ or even less) because you would probably fail and take unnecessary overwatch damage. With 9th edition, we can declare those charges and, with FttF rerolls, we will get some of them. It's quite random, and you won't always want to leave your unit isolated, but the times it happens, it can be devastating, and the opponent will have to consider the possibility when making decisions.

 

Perhaps the most important advantage we will get is the huge reduction in the space armies occupy. Units can't be set in a chain anymore, and taking squads with 7+ models is greatly disincentivised, meaning screens will be way less efective and easier to remove. Moreover, it particularly benefits us since it also allows us to get into better positions with deep strike/gate of infinity. These facts, combined with the smaller army and board size, will make much harder for enemies to keep us away.

[Valerian]

I was just working on a Consolidated Terrain Cheat Sheet for the actual terrain that I've got here at home to use, when it occurred to me that only Infantry, Beasts, and Swarms are allowed to gain the benefit of Cover (whether it be Light, Heavy, or Dense Cover terrain traits).

 

So, no matter what you do (except House Rule it differently, of course), Monsters, Vehicles, and Cavalry can never gain the benefit of any of these various cover benefits.  

 

This is made clear on the 'Terrain Features' page, where you'll see that only Infantry, Beasts, or Swarm models are ever eligible to receive the benefits of cover in the sections covering Obstacles and Area Terrain.  It won't be clear if you just go review the Terrain Traits pages, where it describes what Dense, Light, and Heavy Cover do.

 

 

 

EDIT: Also, on a separate note, when looking at the Eternal War Mission Pack, the "Rule of Three," is now an actual rule in the book, and not just a suggestion for Event Organizers.  With the exception of Troops and Dedicated Transports, you can't include the same datasheet in your army more than three times.  

[Valerian]

I was just working on a Consolidated Terrain Cheat Sheet for the actual terrain that I've got here at home to use, when it occurred to me that only Infantry, Beasts, and Swarms are allowed to gain the benefit of Cover (whether it be Light, Heavy, or Dense Cover terrain traits).

 

So, no matter what you do (except House Rule it differently, of course), Monsters, Vehicles, and Cavalry can never gain the benefit of any of these various cover benefits.  

 

This is made clear on the 'Terrain Features' page, where you'll see that only Infantry, Beasts, or Swarm models are ever eligible to receive the benefits of cover in the sections covering Obstacles and Area Terrain.  It won't be clear if you just go review the Terrain Traits pages, where it describes what Dense, Light, and Heavy Cover do.

 

 

 

EDIT: Also, on a separate note, when looking at the Eternal War Mission Pack, the "Rule of Three," is now an actual rule in the book, and not just a suggestion for Event Organizers.  With the exception of Troops and Dedicated Transports, you can't include the same datasheet in your army more than three times.  

 

 

 

One correction to this bit of information.  It looks like Vehicles and Cavalry would be harder to hit if they meet the requirements for Dense Cover, as the Dense Cover terrain trait does not actually state anything about "models receiving the benefits of cover...." like Light and Heavy Cover do.  

 

So, no improved saves for Bikers or Dreadnoughts in Ruins, but if those types of units were in Woods, they would be harder to hit.  

 

Good to know how this stuff applies for Grey Knights, but also for our opponents.  

[Corvus Fortis]

This means, that Tide of Shadows is even better for Dreads or GMNDKs.

[GranMasterAmarillo]

A little help to understand terrain rules
Large version here https://i.imgur.com/Dd9MJA7.png

 

[Captain Coolpants]

12 different types of cover, and up to 100 vp each game, with secondaries and primaries each getting a certain amount of points depending on what you did ect.

This just sounds like an awful lot of house keeping I simply can't be bothered with.

 

No doubt it'll make competitive gaming better.

But clearly to compensate with all these new rules, is the real reason they have made armies and boards smaller.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Captain Coolpants

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

12 different types of cover, and up to 100 vp each game, with secondaries and primaries each getting a certain amount of points depending on what you did ect.

This just sounds like an awful lot of house keeping I simply can't be bothered with.

 

No doubt it'll make competitive gaming better.

But clearly to compensate with all these new rules, is the real reason they have made armies and boards smaller.

I bet you most events will only use a few. I'm really starting to miss the terrain rules of 4th.

 

Anyone else thinking we are going to see assassins in most games against imperial players? The ability to swap them out for whichever is best is going to be very nasty, especially in events. Certainly making me think twice about my GK and TS even more as the prospect of facing a culexus is increased.

 I know we can use one ourselves, but other then the culexus we would need to dedicate a unit to screen them, which in the case of the vindicare may not be too bad, put him next to the gunoughts.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Rune Priest Ridcully

[Valerian]

Assassins are definitely likely to get popular.  

[Seizeman]

Assassins have never been effective. Vindicare, in the right situation, is the only one that can pull its weight, and even then he's quite unreliable. However, with the new character targeting rules, he will be super easy to kill, so I don't see him being competitive at all.

[Corvus Fortis]

If GK or TS become top meta, I can see more people taking Culexus to specificaly target them. Both assassins and inquisitors are fun but has their own problems and are not very reliable. I won't call them bad, I won't call them good. I still hope GW will give Vindicare some new rules, so he can survive a bit more, but otherwise anything would be able to one-shot it. His spymask rule becomes obsolate, because it gives -2 to-hit straight. Let's wait for the 1st day FAQ/Errata to see if they get anything.

[Valerian]

App details, for those that haven’t seen them yet:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/09/the-app-all-you-need-to-know/

[ValourousHeart]

Thanks for posting that chart GranMasterAmarillo, very helpful.

 

I figured one of the terrain rules would give overwatch as an ability more than just that on stratagem, its Defensible. 

Makes sense.

[Valerian]

Thanks for posting that chart GranMasterAmarillo, very helpful.

 

I figured one of the terrain rules would give overwatch as an ability more than just that on stratagem, its Defensible.

Makes sense.

Defensible does not give Overwatch. It’s just that if you choose to use your 1CP Overwatch stratagem on a unit in Defensible terrain, that unit will successfully hit on 5+, instead of just 6s.

[ValourousHeart]

 

Thanks for posting that chart GranMasterAmarillo, very helpful.

 

I figured one of the terrain rules would give overwatch as an ability more than just that on stratagem, its Defensible.

Makes sense.

Defensible does not give Overwatch. It’s just that if you choose to use your 1CP Overwatch stratagem on a unit in Defensible terrain, that unit will successfully hit on 5+, instead of just 6s.

 

You might be right, but until we have the book in our hands we have to consider everything that GW has said on the matter.

 

GW said that Overwatch will be more limited, but that there will be several ways to gain access to it.

They formally mentioned the stratagem, Tau, the narrative campaign, and during one of the podcasts they mention that there are other ways as well.

By that we know for certain that there are 3 confirmed ways to gain access to it and a suggestion that GW hasn't revealed everything yet.

 

We can pick this up in 2 weeks when we both have the book in our hands.

But from a business perspective having terrain give rules to an army that were otherwise limited is a good way to encourage product sales.

So be prepared for other methods of your opponent gaining access to overwatch.

[Shagah]

I am sure there will be a number of workarounds for Overwatch various factions, but I also do not think that the Defensible terrain type will do so based on the few games that I have watched already.  So far they both seemed to require the spending of CP to use Overwatch much as Valerian suggests. 

[Corvus Fortis]

Ok, gentlmen. Here are the rumors. Very reliable ones. What's your opinion?

 

GK
BC - 115 +5
BroChamp - 90 +0
Chappy - 110 +5
GM - 135 +5
GMNDK - 180 +30
Libby - 105 +5
TechMar - 60 +5
Stern - 110 +6
Crowe - 85 +6
Voldus - 160 +7
Draigo - 190 +10
SS - 17 +3
Termies - 35 +3
RazorB - 80 +10
Rhino - 75 +10
Apothercary - 80 +5
PalAnc - 100 +0
Anc - 95 +5

dread - 80 +15
paaldins- 47 +6
purifiers - 17 +3
servitors - 7 +2
vendread - 95 +10
interceptors - 20 +3
LR - 175 -5
LRC - 215 +15
LRR - 245 +65
NDK - 130 +30
purgators - 17 +3
stromhawk - 115 + 30
SR -240 +48
stormtalon - 105 -5
AC - 20 -2
boltpistol/gun - 0
combies - 10 +2(flamer)/-5(melta)/-1(plasma)
FSC - 0 -25
G.Psilencer - 20 +0
HB - 10/15 vehicles +0/+5
HF - 15 +1
H.Inc - 20 +1
H.Plas - 20 +4
H.Psy - 25 +1
HKM - 5 -1
HurB - 15 +5
icarus - 10 +0
Incinerator - 15 +6
grenades - 0
lastalon - 35 +5
Lascannon - 20 -5
ML - 20 +0
MM - 20/25 vehicles -1/+3
PC - 25 +9
cutter - 5 +0
psilencer - 5 +1
psycannon - 10 +3
skyhammer - 20 +0
stormbolter - 3 +1
stormstrike - 0 -20
tw.AC - 40 -4
TW.HB - 30 +13
TW.PC - 40 +16
TW.Las - 40 +0
tw.MM - 50 +10
typhoon - 40 +8
crozius - 0
dreadfist - 0/5 pair -10/-10
dread CCW - 20 +0
NDK hammer - 15 +0
hammer - 15 +3
falchion- 2 +1
halberd - 0 -1
sword - 0 -1
NDK sword - 10 +0
stave - 0 -1
axe - 5 +0
servoarm - 0 +0
NDK teleporter  - 10 +0