9th edition implications for the GK

[Brother Lunkhead]

=][= Updates completed. Posts needing to be moved have been.......moved. =][=

[Reskin]

with the space marine codex as a baseline to speculate from, is it reasonable that GW could balance the D3 damage characteristic of our Nemesis force weapons? Say to something like D3+1 or a flat 3D. 

It's already speculated that our swords will be +1str -3AP

Our halberds represent the current force axes, so I would assume that a +2str -2ap incoming buff.

 

Our hammers are an interesting point. Seeing as we don't have chain fists. Would GW keep them a flat 3D as opposed to the nerf that thunder hammer got because of chain fists?

 

And our special weapon guns. A psilencer represents volume shooting, but with the random D3 damage, do you think this will get a slight buff? D3+1 or something else entirely?

 

What's the go with current Space Marine flamers? I don't have stats on them, but did our incinerators not pass the bar?

Edited October 19, 2020 by Reskin

[Icosiel]

They didn't update anything of ours that wasn't exactly a reprint from the SM Codex, so our Incinerators still have an 8" range.

 

In 8th edition, our Nemesis force weapons had the exact same stats as their counterparts in the SM Codex. A Librarian's force sword is now +1 -3 d3, and I imagine we will get the same. I see no reason they would increase the damage of our NFW, and I hope they don't. It'd just mean another points increase for our guys.

[Skywrath]

Imperial Armor Compendium is avaliable for pre-order this Friday, do you think there will be something for us?

[Captain Coolpants]

Landraider is now called a banisher.

 

Seems vortimer razorback and doomglaive are dead though.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/26/inside-imperial-armour-compendium/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Twitter&utm_campaign=40K&utm_content=40kcompendium2602020

[Reskin]

we didn't have much to begin with, so I wouldn't hold your breath. 

[librisrouge]

Here is to hoping that a few SM units will be included in the GK pickings.

[Skywrath]

I like that name actually - Banisher, quite fitting. As for the Doomglaive being officially legends, do you think there is a possibility that the weaponry of said doomglaive could be as a weapon option? For instance, while I can't see the Doomglaive stat-sheet on the app, I can see the nemesis doomglaive weapon option - I think that could imply the doomglaive is very much alive?

Edited October 26, 2020 by Skywrath

[Skywrath]

Alright, so we have a bit of a problem with the new SW unit.

 

 

See: - hunters beyond death, runic totems, morkai's howl. Thoughts, and how do we play against that? Because as far as I am concerned, this unit is a giant middle finger to us. 

 

++Brother Skywrath is reporting to a peniterium near you++

Edited October 29, 2020 by Skywrath

[Reskin]

Well, I think the unit is aimed at Thousand Sons thematically. And Chaos Demons as such.

However, I'm none to pleased about it. Having a SW in my gaming group.

But, they have short range weapons, so to fully utilize the unit, he has to come in close. He's only on power armour himself, so a 3+ saves can be killed.

That means he's always taking rapid fire storm bolter shots right to the face! 

 

Just means this is the first unit I kill if he does decide to field one.

[INKS]

No word yet on when these guys are getting their own codex update?

[Skywrath]

Nope, praise be to GW.

[Reskin]

I just want more wounds and better force weapons...... a simple FAQ by some intern wouldn't take more then 15 minutes to upload....... :( 

[Icosiel]

The issue there would be points. They'll have to reevaluate our entire Codex when we get the increased wounds and better weapons, not to mention all the stratagem updates and changes to aura abilities. All of that is going to require a massive points adjustment, and I'd rather have that adjustment happen with a brand new Codex and brand new rules than just as a stop gap. In the meantime we get auras that effect every unit and access to the old ATSKNF.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Icosiel

[Reskin]

What's the probability that they make our hammers -2AP even though we cant get chain fists..... and make us even less antivehicle.

[Icosiel]

What's the probability that they make our hammers -2AP even though we cant get chain fists..... and make us even less antivehicle.

 

Who knows? When that day comes we'll have a whole host of changes to our army. We'll get tougher Terminators, tougher Dreads, new strats... Dread this change and you blind yourself to the light of hope and excitement. At the moment, our Nemesis Daemon Hammers are some of the best melee weapons in the Imperium. Rejoice!

[Biscuittzz]

So watching the FW compendium review video and I see the GK Thunderhawk has faction keyword "Sanctic Astartes" - this is new right? Strangely the LR banisher doesn't have it.

 

Something to look out for as our codex nears.

 

My first guess at what it will do - keyword will allow us to get around the smite +1 cast increase.

[Skywrath]

So watching the FW compendium review video and I see the GK Thunderhawk has faction keyword "Sanctic Astartes" - this is new right? Strangely the LR banisher doesn't have it.

 

Something to look out for as our codex nears.

 

My first guess at what it will do - keyword will allow us to get around the smite +1 cast increase.

 

OOOOOOOOOOOOh, now I'm hyped. Sanctic Astartes, what could it mean, speculate, folks!

 

Also checked the video review: VLR psycannons went up to 2 damage flat, so that means our psycannons are finally 2 DAMAGE FOLKS! We did it!

Edited October 31, 2020 by Skywrath

[Corvus Fortis]

What I can see so far:

 

1) Twin psycannon is Heavy 6 S7 AP-1 2, which obviously means, that normal psycannon is half the shots. Psycannon is a beefed up heavy bolter now. Potential damage is worse against 1-wound target, but better agains W2+ models. If tide of convergence remains unchanged, it goes to 8 -1 3 and with Onslaught 9 -2 3, which is not bad at all;

2) As mentioned above, we have Sactic astartes keyword now for thunderhawk. I guess, LR should have sanctic astartes too, and adeptus is a typo for it. It makes sense, because we are the only adeptus astartes faction outside of codex SM and have to be more distinct;

3) LR has new Brotherhood Keyword. Finally, we are getting our own Subfaction, yay! 

 

Above changes makes me think, that codex: GK is on its way. Fingers crossed for winter 2020. Let the wishlisting begin! 

[Waking Dreamer]

Some more things of note:

- Banisher is now equipped with 2 Heavy Incinerators (so probably a slight downgrade to Flamestorm Cannons hopefully for cheaper points, and to be thematically more fitting).

- Base cost is 265/285 points (my eyesight is not what it once was)?

 

As pointed out, I'm really most excited for the new <BROTHERHOOD> keyword as well. It will probably be that extra system on top of our Tides to compensate for us being individually different to Codex SM. The closest thing I can think of would be the Custodes <SHIELD HOST> upgrade for different detachments at the cost of Command Points.

 

Hopefully Tides will be upgraded to effect VEHICLES unconditionally now, otherwise Convergence will still do nothing for our H.Psycannon, G.Psilencer, and Twin Psycannon platforms.

[Biscuittzz]

Yep, I completely missed the Brotherhood keyword. I'm assuming we'll get something similar to what TS/DG got. Don't even mind if they're not all that powerful, more ways of running the faction is always welcome.

 

Onto Primaris, we won't be getting them nor do I want them really. However, my hot take on it is that Santic Astartes may be a way of bringing us up to the primaris baseline without actually incorporating the models. It could be that some marines are Sanctic and some are not etc.

 

The LR banisher missing the Sanctic Astartes keyword may just be an error but it may mean Sanctic Astartes may not be able to use it. We'll see i guess.

[Waking Dreamer]

3) LR has new Brotherhood Keyword. Finally, we are getting our own Subfaction, yay! 

 

Above changes makes me think, that codex: GK is on its way. Fingers crossed for winter 2020. Let the wishlisting begin! 

 

To get into the mood of fun speculation here is some Brotherhood Lore, that the rules designers were probably looking at as well to get ideas for the distinctness of the different Brotherhoods:

 

 

[Corvus Fortis]

Some out-of-the-head random ideas:

 

0) Paladins, Chaplains, Purifiers, Crowe aren't getting brotherhood keywords (maybe vendreads too, but we'll see);

1) 1st is about vehicles and techmarines. Grandmaster can give +1 to-hit to vehicles like techmarine? Techmarines always heal 3 wounds? Truesilver armor is free to use, if GM is on the table? Vehicles always count like half wounds suffered maybe? Aetheric Conduit can be unique relic here.

2) 2nd is about teleportation and fleet. A strat to move d6 after teleport strike? Increased uses for teleportarium strat/use it for free? Dynamic insertion for free? Unlimited shunt for interceptors? Additional orbital bombardment use?

3) 3rd is about librarians and psychic stuff, so, once again, free strats for this brotherhood, if they are connected to psychic powers. Maybe +1 to cast will be unique to this BH now? Nullifier matrix and sanctic shard maybe taken only here, maybe? Librarians know/cast additional power? Loremaster trait belongs here now?

4) 4th is about prognostication, so, maybe rerolls and stuff? Some kind of FnP roll or innate invuln save? Heed the prognosticars are free to use? Reroll single hit/wound/save dice for each unit once per turn? It is also kind of about duelists, so maybe Brotherhood Champions will benifit from it? They can use both stances at once in this brotherhood?

5) 5th is about apothecaries and dreadnoughts. Maybe, chief apothercary can be taken in this brotherhood? They can use strat to rise model for free? Always heal 3 wounds? Dreadnoughts can use wisdom strat for free? VenDread's FnP goes to 5+?

6) 6th brotherhood is about small squads and servitors. Terminators benifit from it most? Bonuses, when wholly within own territory? Servitors are buffed even when not near techmarine, or TM aura increased? Servitors can be returned on 2+ when destroyed or getting obsec? Some bonuses when performing actions?

7) 7th is my favorite brotherhood and has the most of potential. I really hope GW can make it right. What about taking more then 1 inquisitor/agent in detachment without breaking it? Taking Astra Militarum detachment without breaking Tides? Inquisitor can take WL/Relic for free, without CP, if it is Ordo Malleus? Grey Knights are getting Quarry for Chaos, if Ordo Malleus Inquisitor is near? 

8) 8th is kind of Deathwatch-type brotherhood with shifting playstyles. Maybe, they can borrow abilities from other brotherhoods and shift through them through the battle with kind of drawback? 

 

Just random thoughts and ideas. I guess, every brotherhood will have own WT, relic, stratagem and psychic power too.

[Skywrath]

What I can see so far:

 

1) Twin psycannon is Heavy 6 S7 AP-1 2, which obviously means, that normal psycannon is half the shots. Psycannon is a beefed up heavy bolter now. Potential damage is worse against 1-wound target, but better agains W2+ models. If tide of convergence remains unchanged, it goes to 8 -1 3 and with Onslaught 9 -2 3, which is not bad at all;

2) As mentioned above, we have Sactic astartes keyword now for thunderhawk. I guess, LR should have sanctic astartes too, and adeptus is a typo for it. It makes sense, because we are the only adeptus astartes faction outside of codex SM and have to be more distinct;

3) LR has new Brotherhood Keyword. Finally, we are getting our own Subfaction, yay! 

 

Above changes makes me think, that codex: GK is on its way. Fingers crossed for winter 2020. Let the wishlisting begin! 

 

I mean, with this analogy in mind, the psycannons can be buffed up to D4 with Shooting Tide, Psychic Onslaught (assuming we still get that ability after the prune), as well as being -3AP. Psycannons look like the way to go, which suits me quite well. Completely overlooked the brotherhood keyword, cheers for pointing that out!

 

Some more things of note:

- Banisher is now equipped with 2 Heavy Incinerators (so probably a slight downgrade to Flamestorm Cannons hopefully for cheaper points, and to be thematically more fitting).

- Base cost is 265/285 points (my eyesight is not what it once was)?

 

As pointed out, I'm really most excited for the new <BROTHERHOOD> keyword as well. It will probably be that extra system on top of our Tides to compensate for us being individually different to Codex SM. The closest thing I can think of would be the Custodes <SHIELD HOST> upgrade for different detachments at the cost of Command Points.

 

Hopefully Tides will be upgraded to effect VEHICLES unconditionally now, otherwise Convergence will still do nothing for our H.Psycannon, G.Psilencer, and Twin Psycannon platforms.

 

Theoretically, what difference do you think there would be between Flamestorm Cannons/Heavy Incinerators? As far as I am concerned, they are both the same thing. Hoping Vehicles get buffed as well. 

 

Yep, I completely missed the Brotherhood keyword. I'm assuming we'll get something similar to what TS/DG got. Don't even mind if they're not all that powerful, more ways of running the faction is always welcome.

 

Onto Primaris, we won't be getting them nor do I want them really. However, my hot take on it is that Santic Astartes may be a way of bringing us up to the primaris baseline without actually incorporating the models. It could be that some marines are Sanctic and some are not etc.

 

The LR banisher missing the Sanctic Astartes keyword may just be an error but it may mean Sanctic Astartes may not be able to use it. We'll see i guess.

 

Let's face it, getting Brotherhoods was something we all should have seen coming ever since ROTD. Not that I am complaining, just makes things much more fluffier. Couldn't disagree with you more about primaris - going back to my default argument that Exorcists are Grey Knight successors, if they get them, we will get them. 

 

Some out-of-the-head random ideas:

 

0) Paladins, Chaplains, Purifiers, Crowe aren't getting brotherhood keywords (maybe vendreads too, but we'll see);

1) 1st is about vehicles and techmarines. Grandmaster can give +1 to-hit to vehicles like techmarine? Techmarines always heal 3 wounds? Truesilver armor is free to use, if GM is on the table? Vehicles always count like half wounds suffered maybe? Aetheric Conduit can be unique relic here.

2) 2nd is about teleportation and fleet. A strat to move d6 after teleport strike? Increased uses for teleportarium strat/use it for free? Dynamic insertion for free? Unlimited shunt for interceptors? Additional orbital bombardment use?

3) 3rd is about librarians and psychic stuff, so, once again, free strats for this brotherhood, if they are connected to psychic powers. Maybe +1 to cast will be unique to this BH now? Nullifier matrix and sanctic shard maybe taken only here, maybe? Librarians know/cast additional power? Loremaster trait belongs here now?

4) 4th is about prognostication, so, maybe rerolls and stuff? Some kind of FnP roll or innate invuln save? Heed the prognosticars are free to use? Reroll single hit/wound/save dice for each unit once per turn? It is also kind of about duelists, so maybe Brotherhood Champions will benifit from it? They can use both stances at once in this brotherhood?

5) 5th is about apothecaries and dreadnoughts. Maybe, chief apothercary can be taken in this brotherhood? They can use strat to rise model for free? Always heal 3 wounds? Dreadnoughts can use wisdom strat for free? VenDread's FnP goes to 5+?

6) 6th brotherhood is about small squads and servitors. Terminators benifit from it most? Bonuses, when wholly within own territory? Servitors are buffed even when not near techmarine, or TM aura increased? Servitors can be returned on 2+ when destroyed or getting obsec? Some bonuses when performing actions?

7) 7th is my favorite brotherhood and has the most of potential. I really hope GW can make it right. What about taking more then 1 inquisitor/agent in detachment without breaking it? Taking Astra Militarum detachment without breaking Tides? Inquisitor can take WL/Relic for free, without CP, if it is Ordo Malleus? Grey Knights are getting Quarry for Chaos, if Ordo Malleus Inquisitor is near? 

8) 8th is kind of Deathwatch-type brotherhood with shifting playstyles. Maybe, they can borrow abilities from other brotherhoods and shift through them through the battle with kind of drawback? 

 

Just random thoughts and ideas. I guess, every brotherhood will have own WT, relic, stratagem and psychic power too.

 

See, with brotherhoods, I'm a bit wary of the mentality that we HAVE to pick one brotherhood over the other one, because it is better. While I pretty much agree with your predictions across the board, by your own logic, we would be forced to either choose 3rd one, or the brotherhood that favours shooty squads or melee squads (8th brotherhood sounds AMAZING though, I'd definitely get behind that!) I imagine even with TS/DG there is one cult that is better than the other one. 

 

That being said, do we have any ideas what the "Sanctic Astartes" keyword implies? If I were to shift perspectives to Biscuitz analogy we won't get primaris, this seems to be the answer to why. 

[Icosiel]

The new Banisher datasheet says that it has the Power of the Machine Spirit ability, and tells us to reference our Codex for this rule.

 

Our latest FAQ in our Codex says to delete the Power of the Machine from our Codex.

 

How does the rules team reconcile this writing?