9th edition implications for the GK

[Skywrath]

So with blood angels previews coming out. The sanguinor has a really nice ability that lets him appear in combat. What are peoples thoughts on draigo having something similar?

 

While that would be awesome, I doubt they would do give that to Draigo for balance reasons. Draigo hits harder, is the chapter master that provides full re-rolls, and a psyker to boot, all of which the Sanguinor doesn't have. Can you imagine that with Draigo knowing Inner Fire and Vortex with that ability? He'd demolish everyone in front of him, and not in the melee sense either.  

Edited December 3, 2020 by Skywrath

[Gnomeo]

I don't know if it would be broken. As will still get attacked before he gets to fight. Would mean his aura isn't on the field for a couple of turns which will help to balance out. Not sure an exact copy and past would be good but I have hope there maybe something similar. To represent are bad ass leader who lives in the warp and who carved his name on mortarions heart!!!!

[Reskin]

Nah its actually not worth it for someone like Draigo, with all his abilities.

 

The sanguinor appears in the fight phase, and must have all attacks directed against him from the unit he is engaged with.

The weight of dice coming from a dedicated melee unit like Berserkers or Death Company, or Wolfen will kill any lord now.

 

So you are effectively given them 8VP for assassinate and killing a psyker character from Abhor the Witch. Not to mention you just sacrificed a 190pt model. That's a unit of Obsec terminators...

 

Not to mention, you've skipped several phases like the psychic phase and shooting phase that Draigo could of performed things.

[Waking Dreamer]

I don't know if it would be broken. As will still get attacked before he gets to fight. Would mean his aura isn't on the field for a couple of turns which will help to balance out. Not sure an exact copy and past would be good but I have hope there maybe something similar. To represent are bad ass leader who lives in the warp and who carved his name on mortarions heart!!!!

Well, I have suggested:

 

Warrior Amid the Warp (Daemon-Slayer)

- At the end of any of your Movement phases, you can remove your WL from the battlefield, then immediately set the model anywhere that is more than 9" from any enemy models. In addition, if your WL wounds a DAEMON in the Fight phase, your opponent must subtract 1 from any invulnerable saving throws made against the attack.

 

Particular for Draigo...imagine having our Supreme GM, traversing the Warp to relentlessly pursue any enemy target on the table, worthy of their demise at the edge of his blade!

It represents his Warp-related shenanigans, increases his army buffing utility, does not require him to know GoI, nor use up the cast lot for himself, and I say makes him as interesting WL potential as Voldus.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Waking Dreamer

[Reskin]

The potential of an inbuilt GoI on Draigo makes him tantalising.

[Skywrath]

New FAQ came out -  Yay, no Grey Knight wound updates. At least it's good to see we won't get *completely* obliterated by the opponent when they take Abhor the Witch.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Skywrath

[Gnomeo]

In the GT pack the change to abhor the witch is huge

[Skywrath]

1 point difference, and 2 point difference if it's a character, if I'm not mistaken. When we get our updated models this will probably put us back in line with the other factions, but until then, it's still ridiculously easy to kill a Grey Knight player. 

 

If my previous reaction to GW not taking 5m to update us was bad, the above makes me beyond furious. Oh, yeah having a 26% winrate if we go second is perfectly OK! We can totally survive in a marine meta because our psycannons/psilencers are totally on par with the new things such as the melta rifles and the executor guns. We got Tide of Shadows, it's ok, it's not like most marines have at least 2 points of AP attached to their weapons. Oh wait. All of the above was sarcasm, in case no-one got it.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Skywrath

[Gnomeo]

Atm I have no problems with marines and I think wound increase would make grey knights oppressively good. We also have to look at the full picture abhor the witch buff for use eradicators and other units going up in points is a nerf for marines but a buff for us. Like using old fashion weighing scales. If you took a small weight of one side and put it on the other it is the same as taking a larger weight off.

 

I also expect gw to make smaller changes this edition than 8th which improves balance in the long run.

Also the change to last turn for us is massive with are mobility.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Gnomeo

[Skywrath]

No problems with marines?!? You'd have to humour us with some Battle-Reports, brother! 

 

Seriously though, I have big issues with them. However I didn't see the units going up in costs, that's pretty big actually. That being said, I can think some of them could use an even further nerf in the weaponry department, but those changes are enough, for now. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Skywrath

[Reskin]

the 3 main auto take units only went up 5pts respectively, not sure how that affects list building, maybe they were 2000pts on the nose, now they might have to drop a model or special weapon.

 

Marines aren't the only meta... Admech, Necrons and many others like harlequins and sisters are still dominant. And Gk stick suck.

 

 

I'm with Skywrath here, I'm furious.

 

@Gnomeo, you might not suffer against marines, but we're yet to hear anything about how you actually play, and at what point cost. And the level of players you play against.

 

Take a look a waking dreamers last bat rep I believe, got stomped against them. (Although, I wouldn't run that list to begin with) But still...

 

I have to vs Blood Angles, and Space Wolves, Admech and Custodes and Tau on the regular. Guard are easier to deal with, but Imperial/Chaos Knights also suck to play against for GK. 

[Gnomeo]

When I next play I will try to take pics ect and do a bat rep. O necrons and sisters are super hard and I tend not to win those ones. And as you mentioned opponent is way more important than army. I would say me and my opponents are average skill so balanced there. However this getting off topic.

[Cryminysakes]

So are there any GK points changes in the new Munitorium Field Manual that just dropped??

?

Edited January 7, 2021 by Cryminysakes

[Icosiel]

I'm seeing a lot of surprising vitriol here. Do Grey Knights suck this edition? I think we're great at the moment. We have a lot of options at our disposal and our units seem fairly priced. But then, I also played extensively throughout 8th, so I'm used to our army being literally the worst in the game.

[TPS]

I'm seeing a lot of surprising vitriol here. Do Grey Knights suck this edition? I think we're great at the moment. We have a lot of options at our disposal and our units seem fairly priced. But then, I also played extensively throughout 8th, so I'm used to our army being literally the worst in the game.

... or at least giving the Deathwatch a fight for last place. Which I played during most of 8th. My impression is also one along the lines of 'had it worse in 8th'. Although, to be honest, I didn't really get in a lot of games in 9th so far, because my gaming group happens to be centered in the neighbouring country, with borders closed for about half the year.

[Gnomeo]

I'm seeing a lot of surprising vitriol here. Do Grey Knights suck this edition? I think we're great at the moment. We have a lot of options at our disposal and our units seem fairly priced. But then, I also played extensively throughout 8th, so I'm used to our army being literally the worst in the game.

My opinion is no we don't suck though I do think we are a tricky army. No point and click option but lots of little options. There was a goonhammer statistics review a while go which said we had a 26% chance to win going 2nd. I can not agree with this from personal experience but everyones meta is slightly different. But I think a fair number of people have seen that and taken it to heart.

[Waking Dreamer]

So are there any GK points changes in the new Munitorium Field Manual that just dropped??

?

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/76UtmPgtSCGKJAnW.pdf

 

I'm a little confused though, if there isnt any points listed for a piece of wargear a GK unit can take...does that mean it's free - or baked into the unit's base cost?

 

Eg. GMNDK base cost is 185pts. Heavy Incinerator is not listed so that means at 185pts you can already take it for free?

 

Falchion is +2pts...so does that mean Twin/Two Falchions is +4pts...?? Or is 1 Falchion baked into the unit cost like the rest of the regular NFWs? 

 

Storm bolters are baked into GK infantry units, except for Librarians that cost +3pts. Most other armies now need to spend 5pts to give a SB to their guy.

[librisrouge]

Damned but I wish that document was color coded, like the faqs. I don't want to have to go and double check each and every number.

 

 

 

So are there any GK points changes in the new Munitorium Field Manual that just dropped??

?

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/76UtmPgtSCGKJAnW.pdf

 

I'm a little confused though, if there isnt any points listed for a piece of wargear a GK unit can take...does that mean it's free - or baked into the unit's base cost?

 

Eg. GMNDK base cost is 185pts. Heavy Incinerator is not listed so that means at 185pts you can already take it for free?

 

Falchion is +2pts...so does that mean Twin/Two Falchions is +4pts...?? Or is 1 Falchion baked into the unit cost like the rest of the regular NFWs? 

 

Storm bolters are baked into GK infantry units, except for Librarians that cost +3pts. Most other armies now need to spend 5pts to give a SB to their guy.

 

I'd say that GMNDKs can take incinerators for free now. Seems like an oversight but there you go.

[Skywrath]

the 3 main auto take units only went up 5pts respectively, not sure how that affects list building, maybe they were 2000pts on the nose, now they might have to drop a model or special weapon.

 

Marines aren't the only meta... Admech, Necrons and many others like harlequins and sisters are still dominant. And Gk stick suck.

 

 

I'm with Skywrath here, I'm furious.

 

@Gnomeo, you might not suffer against marines, but we're yet to hear anything about how you actually play, and at what point cost. And the level of players you play against.

 

Take a look a waking dreamers last bat rep I believe, got stomped against them. (Although, I wouldn't run that list to begin with) But still...

 

I have to vs Blood Angles, and Space Wolves, Admech and Custodes and Tau on the regular. Guard are easier to deal with, but Imperial/Chaos Knights also suck to play against for GK. 

 

It was the Woodsman's bat-rep against Ultras. Waking Dreamer has never posted a bat-rep if memory serves..?

 

When I next play I will try to take pics ect and do a bat rep. O necrons and sisters are super hard and I tend not to win those ones. And as you mentioned opponent is way more important than army. I would say me and my opponents are average skill so balanced there. However this getting off topic.

 

Getting slightly off-topic, perhaps, but we are talking about GK's as a whole with 9th, so imo, you are fine. Looking forward to those bat-reps though!

 

So are there any GK points changes in the new Munitorium Field Manual that just dropped??

?

 

I skimmed over it briefly, everything seemed to be the same, from before the FAQ in October..? Could be wrong.

 

I'm seeing a lot of surprising vitriol here. Do Grey Knights suck this edition? I think we're great at the moment. We have a lot of options at our disposal and our units seem fairly priced. But then, I also played extensively throughout 8th, so I'm used to our army being literally the worst in the game.

 

Maybe. We narrowly escaped T4, because we are "marines". But yes, we are really heading that way.

 

 

I'm seeing a lot of surprising vitriol here. Do Grey Knights suck this edition? I think we're great at the moment. We have a lot of options at our disposal and our units seem fairly priced. But then, I also played extensively throughout 8th, so I'm used to our army being literally the worst in the game.

... or at least giving the Deathwatch a fight for last place. Which I played during most of 8th. My impression is also one along the lines of 'had it worse in 8th'. Although, to be honest, I didn't really get in a lot of games in 9th so far, because my gaming group happens to be centered in the neighbouring country, with borders closed for about half the year.

 

 

Couldn't have put it better myself, forgelord!

 

 

I'm seeing a lot of surprising vitriol here. Do Grey Knights suck this edition? I think we're great at the moment. We have a lot of options at our disposal and our units seem fairly priced. But then, I also played extensively throughout 8th, so I'm used to our army being literally the worst in the game.

My opinion is no we don't suck though I do think we are a tricky army. No point and click option but lots of little options. There was a goonhammer statistics review a while go which said we had a 26% chance to win going 2nd. I can not agree with this from personal experience but everyones meta is slightly different. But I think a fair number of people have seen that and taken it to heart.

 

 

My meta is very competitive, so I'm saying from my experience - taking GK's in people that run meta lists or factions, is tantamount to suicide. I'm not the best Grey Knight player, but I'm average at best. And from that experience, anything that is Space Marines, Necrons, Nids (yes, even tyranids), Custodes, Harlequins stomp the ground with us. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Skywrath

[Cryminysakes]

I'm confused.  Maybe I'm just a baby neophyte and don't understand the way...  but I'm not seeing any points changes.  Some people are saying there are... others there aren't?  In another thread SkyWrath mentioned a points drop the the NDK which I'm not seeing.  Reskin mentioned a points increase on troops I'm not seeing...  

 

I've looked at the new points and I'm haven't found a single change from the previous Munitorium list.  However, there is a format change.  In the one released with 9th ed. the points cost didn't include a units base wargear (which took me forever to figure out) but this new list does include wargear in the base cost, but either way it works out to the exact same points.

 

What am I missing?

Edited January 8, 2021 by Cryminysakes

[Gnomeo]

I'm confused. Maybe I'm just a baby neophyte and don't understand the way... but I'm not seeing any points changes. Some people are saying there are... others there aren't? In another thread SkyWrath mentioned a points drop the the NDK which I'm not seeing. Reskin mentioned a points increase on troops I'm not seeing...

 

I've looked at the new points and I'm haven't found a single change from the previous Munitorium list. However, there is a format change. In the one released with 9th ed. the points cost didn't include a units base wargear (which took me forever to figure out) but this new list does include wargear in the base cost, but either way it works out to the exact same points.

 

What am I missing?

As far as I can tell for GK's there is 0 change (maybe the heavy incinerator for dreadknights) but is mostly a format change. Other factions have had some small points changes such as space marine eradicators and out riders.

[Cryminysakes]

ugh I did just notice they did not include Heavy Plasma Cannon for Ven Dreads...  golly gee?

 

lol ETA...  golley gee autocorrect makes me laugh...

 

Look slike Heavy incineratr for NDK is the same AFAICT

Edited January 8, 2021 by Cryminysakes

[Skywrath]

 

I'm confused. Maybe I'm just a baby neophyte and don't understand the way... but I'm not seeing any points changes. Some people are saying there are... others there aren't? In another thread SkyWrath mentioned a points drop the the NDK which I'm not seeing. Reskin mentioned a points increase on troops I'm not seeing...

 

I've looked at the new points and I'm haven't found a single change from the previous Munitorium list. However, there is a format change. In the one released with 9th ed. the points cost didn't include a units base wargear (which took me forever to figure out) but this new list does include wargear in the base cost, but either way it works out to the exact same points.

 

What am I missing?

As far as I can tell for GK's there is 0 change (maybe the heavy incinerator for dreadknights) but is mostly a format change. Other factions have had some small points changes such as space marine eradicators and out riders.

 

 

Pretty much that. And the storm-bolter change. I should have been more clearer, sorry!

[Cryminysakes]

Ah no worries!  It could also have easily been my misunderstanding...  I havent been involved in 40k since 2nd ed...  thats my excuse and Im sticking to it!!!

[Reskin]

I was talking about the marines significant changes. Not GKs.

 

To clarify, the only points changes I can see is the GMNDK points changed only on the Greathammer and the Sword, just because the item isn't listed, (in this case the incinerator) doesn't mean its free. It means someone didn't check their write up. Like I do many times on here, and therefore edit a lot.

 

The Greathammer went from 15pts to 10pts.

The Greatsword weant from 10pts to 5pts. The guns that are listed, the heavy psycannon and the gatling psilencer pts remain the same.

 

1 nemesis falchion is 2pts. the Pair is 4pts.

 

This is significant as this is the only melee weapon the ancients can take, bringing them to 105pts total if you purchase the 1 falchion. As they already come with a stormbolter.

 

Also, another significant thing I seen is for the dreadnoughts,

 

Lascannons are now 20pts (bringing them inline with Space Marines) (Down from 40pts)

Multi-meltas are now 5pts (bringing them inline with SM... I think?) Down from 25pts.

 

The heavy plasma cannon isn't listed here in the GK section of the field manual, and I can't be bothered to go hunting for it elsewhere, or...better yet its 2:30am and I can't see it.

(The plasma cannon is free on SM dreadnoughts when swapping it from the assault cannon) Its currently 20pts for us... I'm not sure if it's been brought in line.

 

The other note I see, and it's only coz I've been running one as of late,  is the Stormhawk Interceptor, its guns got a points decrease as well, from just glancing at it. Which is nice.

 

 

In summary, we still suck massive hairy donkey phallus.

 

 

 

Also: Sorry Skywrath, I meant The Woodsman's write up, got confused and didn't really take note or check whose it was. But cheers, that's the batrep I was talking

about.

 

 

Edit: The heavy incinerator is actually labelled down in the NDK section, still at 20pts. (no changes? iirc)

 

The rhino went up 2pts, from 78pts to 80pts now. So in summary, it looks like vehicles that we share with SM factions are the only that have gotten the most changes both increase and decrease. The landraiders I cant recall or notice any decreases.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Reskin