9th edition implications for the GK

[Reskin]

Yeah, our apothecary, is immensely weak, I can't believe that he was even a unit entry in the 8th edition codex, completely useless

[Skywrath]

 

 

 

Oh, I meant to say the psycannon being the d6 counterpart to the psilencer's D3. Also buffing the psycannon to flat D2 isn't enough tbh.. If it was flat 3, I'd consider that acceptable, D2 (or 3 with convergence) isn't enough to compete with regular marines and their wounds/invulns/FNP's. Realistically, D3 might be enough, but then we'd always be in convergence. 

 

Also, after reflection, in light of Waking Dreamer's prediction, I think S6 spears are actually possible - prime example being Custodes. Fluff wise, we are both from the emperor's geneseed so it could make sense we could have access to some blueprints of Custodes technology. Would be awesome to see some fluff which necessitates a more close working relationship with the Custodes!

not really, custodes are already allied with sisters of silence, who were the first "blunters" or blanks as the cannon goes. Which is to say, a psychic null zone, custodes dont trust psykers.

 

We wouldnt be able to function while around them constantly.

 

 

EDIT: Just re-read the above, and think I understand what you were trying to say.

 

First of all, there already exists a special relationship between the Custodes/Grey Knights after the events of the 13th Black Crusade. I don't have the details, but the Grey Knights are more than just tolerated, as the Custodes realise that Grey Knights are the same side of the coin (same gene-seed), to the point where they actually actively work with them. Then there is the fact that even though the weaponry of the GK and Custodes are different, even then they have something in common - ancient Terran archeotech (either in the form of guardian spears or the nemesis blades, as an example). Then there is the fact that that weaponry is allowed to be used by the Grey Knights, which indicates a level of trust. If my perception is correct, the Custodians outrank everyone, including the Inquisition, especially for matters of military nature. Combine all of those together, and it's well within the realm of reason for Custodes to lend some of the archeotech to a faction that they trust. Not to mention they done that with Imperial Fists and the Phalanx already. If they had problem with the Grey Knights, they would have sent the Shadowkeepers to collect those relics, as they have done previously.

 

As for the sisters of silence - I'm not sure where you are going with this? Just as an example that they don't trust psykers? Everyone in the 40k universe distrusts them, however unlike the others, Grey Knights don't get actively censured for it - in fact I'm yet to read anything about anyone expressing their distaste to their face-plates. Oh boy, that would be interesting.

 

as far as cannon goes Reskin is right. what you are suggesting is fan-fiction, which is completely fine and ok, as far as it concerns how you imagine your GKs and making you more happy with the hobby. however:

- Grey knights dont borrow things from other imperium guys, being super secretive chapter, they dont go chest bumping with other factions. S6 spears are however very likely looking at GW streamlining stuff and spears being GK equivalent of power axes (last 2 editions after Initiative stat is gone)

- tech does not evolve in grim darkness of 40k*, unless some STC is being found. therefore soldiers are riding tractors recreated as tanks (lemans) and elite of Space marines wear recreated power plant protective gear (terminator armor). (*unless GW decides to make more money and come up with Cawl story hiding archeotech 10k years, so they can justify design "fancy tacticool primaris for kids" with "cool floating tanks")

- Custodes distrust psykers, because they are created/build like that. Emperor himself distrusted "comon" psykers (count Space marines and Librarium there also), trusting only handful of them (and those were no "just humans" ..Malcador for example). Emperors vision for mankind (and when he was creating custodes) and after he would finish the webway project.. psykers were to be strictly controlled until humanity matures to master psysic potential/power, or if not doable even anihilated from mankind genome in order to sever humanity's strong connection to warp, hence starwing chaos gods weak/dead.

- related to point above - Custodes are not created using a gene-seed and cultivating extra organs as space marines are. They are created via a bio-alchemy mystery process, recreating a young individual on celular level (probably using emperors gene matrix, never confirmed, but not a gene seed). So we cant say we share gene seed with custodes. But again.. fan-ficting is fine

 

If you like elite armies (GKs and Custodes) fanficting them as battle bros is fine. But in 40K GKs does not get along very well with anyone. mutual respect but fear and distrust at best (those who are allowed to remember... who are not mind wiped - SMs except chaptermasters or killed as guardsmen)

 

*edit - so my post is not completely off topic apart the mention of S6 spears .. : this is what I think will happen.

- Paladins - either they go to 4 wounds (the fanfiction of us and custodes being geneseed brothers starts to make sense! ), but this would probably skyrocket their points to 60+ or such per model. So if not 4 wounds.. then WS+2 and BS2+, along with some fine and usefull rule like Bodyguard or built  in transhuman resiliency would be justifiable.

- all other stuff - along with gaining 1 wound I think we will see also gain +1 attack, so they are in line with Primaris marines, without need of Primaris. The change of Adeptus Astartes to Sanctic Astartes... I see an intention here

- Chaplain and Apothecary - being able to upgrade them to "Masters". This would bring ton of reliability (chaplain .. not having to squeeze buttocks each time and pray for 3+ litany) and utility - apothecary tricks and keeping those Pallies, Termies and chars alive.

 

 

Well stated, sir. Admittedly, I was trying to find fiction to justify the above points increase, but for the sake of this argument, let's just assume the bits I wrote earlier and you reinforced is what I was trying to convey. Clearly, I think I have some lore searching to do in this regard. 

[Reskin]

a lot of the Horus heresy stuff covers how the custodies interact with space marines in general, and psykers in general as well.

 

Not sure if you've read much on that, but psykers were outlawed by the emperor at one point, codiciers and librarians were integrated back into the common squads of companies before the heresy.

 

Even magnus, the emperors own son was banned from using it.

 

And as far as I recall, the custodies stood apart from all space marines before the heresy, and looked down upon them, because they were legion, and as use that term to mean vast. They were literally viewed back then, how the elite space marines view guard today.

 

Much more so now, after the heresy the level of distrust they harbor has increased.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Reskin

[Gnomeo]

a lot of the Horus heresy stuff covers how the custodies interact with space marines in general, and psykers in general as well.

 

Not sure if you've read much on that, but psykers were outlawed by the emperor at one point, codiciers and librarians were integrated back into the common squads of companies before the heresy.

 

Even magnus, the emperors own son was banned from using it.

 

And as far as I recall, the custodies stood apart from all space marines before the heresy, and looked down upon them, because they were legion, and as use that term to mean vast. They were literally viewed back then, how the elite space marines view guard today.

 

Much more so now, after the heresy the level of distrust they harbor has increased.

This is true however I believe there level of distrust is probably less for the grey knights a) because we do a job that even they would struggle to do b) we were established by Malcador using the emperors gene seed. C) not a single grey knight has ever been found wanting.

 

Do they fully trust us hell no do they trust us more than all other psykers yes

[Skywrath]

New preview out this week - Dead and the Divine. Could that potentially be something to do with us?

[INKS]

It's something to do with regular warhammer, not 40k

New preview out this week - Dead and the Divine. Could that potentially be something to do with us?

[Skywrath]

 

It's something to do with regular warhammer, not 40k

New preview out this week - Dead and the Divine. Could that potentially be something to do with us?

 

 

Where does it say that?

[INKS]

Apparently I am wrong but there was a Youtube video where he mentioned warhammer, I assumed this meant fantasy but I guess it's one of each

 

 

It's something to do with regular warhammer, not 40k

New preview out this week - Dead and the Divine. Could that potentially be something to do with us?

 

 

Where does it say that?

 

[Skywrath]

So in other news, the sisters got their version of the Nemesis Dreadknight. Clearly GW doesn't think the NDK was a bad design.

[Captain Coolpants]

They technically made the design worse. The poor lady can't even bend her knees. She'll walk around looking like she pooped her pants.

[WAR]

Makes the dreadknight look amazing

[INKS]

I like that she is more enclosed and not in a diaper. I don't have a sisters army and I am looking at how I can convert it to use elsewhere. 

[Cleon]

It wouldn't take much to make the Dreadknight a really impressive centrepiece model, it just really suffers from coming out early on and being on the cutting edge of 'bigger than Dreadnought' models. A rework of the harness and a bit more dynamic posing options (potentially hard to do with the operator matching the pose, maybe a couple of options of pilot and you can choose to match them with the dreadknight if you want) and it really does what it's supposed to do.

[Sothalor]

I wonder if something like that line art piece from the 5th ed. codex could be the basis of a slight redesign, and taking a similar cue to the Paragon stilts suit that the Sisters have coming.

 

I'm primarily thinking of having the lower half/legs of the Grey Knight operator be shrouded/placed inside the lower torso or upper legs of the Dreadknight suit. Depending on how covered/deep within the suit the pilot's legs are, they wouldn't necessarily need to be modeled, and that would open up the possibility of more dynamic poses with the Dreadknight in various mid-stride positions.

[Trollbeard]

Does anyone think that GMs of all flavours will be limited to 1 per detachment? Similar to captains with regular SM?

[Reskin]

Probably yes, all the codex’s so far, both imperium and chaos/xenos have had army restrictions to some degree.

 

Marines, necrons, death guard. All have had HQ limitations to some degree.

[Skywrath]

An argument could be made that because we aren't a codex complaint chapter, no. I realise that we only have the 8 GM's at any given time, but if we don't follow the tenants of the codex, then I see no reason why we should. Especially when we aren't counted as "space marines".

[Reskin]

An argument could be made that because we aren't a codex complaint chapter, no. I realise that we only have the 8 GM's at any given time, but if we don't follow the tenants of the codex, then I see no reason why we should. Especially when we aren't counted as "space marines".

My reply was based more on facts and precedent rather then fluff, if we were basing a codex on fluff, GK destroy everyone with their psychic power and we live gloriously ever after...

[Skywrath]

That would be the dream, Master Reskin. However you are mistaken if you don't think my statement can be read factually. Factually speaking, you could read my above statement as this:

 

"Because Grey Knights don't use the doctrines and Lt., the command structure the Grey Knights is somewhat more fluid than generic Space Marines. By that logic, we aren't true Space Marines, therefore the structures of command don't apply to us as rigorously."

[Captain Coolpants]

Yeah, we'll probably get the same character restrictions. Has nothing to do with being space Marines (codex compliment or not) if xenos armies also get these restrictions.

 

If it does happen, it'll put a real spanner in the works for people who run numerous grandmaster dreadknights.

[Skywrath]

Side-note. Seems like the Exorcists aren't descended from us after-all. I'm honestly shocked at this revelation and could buy the whole "We think we are descended from Rogal Dorn" (I hope that's truly the case), but really? Not buying them being official successors to Imp.Fists. Nothing about what they (the Exorcists) do or what the Imp.Fists stand for, fits in this bombshell. Anyone else feel the same way?

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369301-exorcists-gene-seed-primogenitor-named/

 

Back on topic - with them being Imperial Fists successors that definitely adds another coffin to the idea we will get Primaris. Also there goes a potential chance of sneak-preview of our rules, if they were descended from the Grey Knights.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Skywrath

[Reskin]

Side-note. Seems like the Exorcists aren't descended from us after-all. I'm honestly shocked at this revelation and could buy the whole "We think we are descended from Rogal Dorn" (I hope that's truly the case), but really? Not buying them being official successors to Imp.Fists. Nothing about what they (the Exorcists) do or what the Imp.Fists stand for, fits in this bombshell. Anyone else feel the same way?

 

Not at all, I'm glad you've come to see the light.

[Brother Lunkhead]

 

Back on topic - with them being Imperial Fists successors that definitely adds another coffin to the idea we will get Primaris. Also there goes a potential chance of sneak-preview of our rules, if they were descended from the Grey Knights.

I don't see any nail in any coffin here. GK's are just too different from First Gen Marines or Primaris for this reveal to have any impact on whether or not GK's get the Primaris treatment. I don't think I'm being optimistic here, just realistic.  It's coming, it has too. However, I don't see it coming soon, and I won't be surprised if we don't see a new model line coming out with the next codex edition, but I won't be disappointed if I'm wrong about that

 

Speaking of a new GK Codex more in line with 9th Ed., don't be too despondent over what may seem like a interminable wait. GW is involved in a lawsuit with it's printer. Hopefully, this will be resolved soon, but it does explain the slowed pace of book releases and reprints.

[Skywrath]

 

 

Back on topic - with them being Imperial Fists successors that definitely adds another coffin to the idea we will get Primaris. Also there goes a potential chance of sneak-preview of our rules, if they were descended from the Grey Knights.

I don't see any nail in any coffin here. GK's are just too different from First Gen Marines or Primaris for this reveal to have any impact on whether or not GK's get the Primaris treatment. I don't think I'm being optimistic here, just realistic.  It's coming, it has too. However, I don't see it coming soon, and I won't be surprised if we don't see a new model line coming out with the next codex edition, but I won't be disappointed if I'm wrong about that

 

Speaking of a new GK Codex more in line with 9th Ed., don't be too despondent over what may seem like a interminable wait. GW is involved in a lawsuit with it's printer. Hopefully, this will be resolved soon, but it does explain the slowed pace of book releases and reprints.

 

 

Didn't know about the lawsuit, but that doesn't surprise me. I still think we are probably one of the first to get our new codex, but every month that we wait, seems like an eternity hah!