9th edition implications for the GK

[Ichar]

 

 

 

Knowing our luck no.

 

I wouldn't bet after PA. Looking how other poor factions, like daemons, get almost nothing to help them, I am happy with what we've recieved.

I am happy with what we received too. However, after seeing what the Daemon faction just got boosted with in WD, I don’t feel bad for them. :)

What did they get in White Dwarf?

My sincere apologies. I meant Engine War. There are previews all over the net. I would mention changes, but as you can see I sometimes make mistakes. I will say that one Tzeentch power for their Exalted Lords is if a Tzeentch exalted lord denies a power, you lose that power for the rest of the battle. Seems to have some dire implications for GK.

 

https://storage.googleapis.com/spikeybits-staging-bucket/2020/05/23c393a1-tzeentch-spell-thief.jpg

Edited June 2, 2020 by Ichar

[Holier Than Thou]

Ah, right. Yeah, I’ve seen the previews, not a massive amount for them but some of it is very good.

[Seizeman]

Nothing in PA makes demons competitive, really. Greater demons are still bad, and the new stratagems are mostly mediocre.

[Skywrath]

The command points for the GK sound pretty interesting. Based of what I read, it would encourage more diverse list building, on top of balancing all SM factions accordingly. Of course the flaw in that theory, what is the maxiumum amount of CP can you theoretically get each turn?

Edited June 2, 2020 by Skywrath

[Captain Antargo]

Nothing in PA makes demons competitive, really. Greater demons are still bad, and the new stratagems are mostly mediocre.

Demons will always lose to the Holy Grey Knights, no doubt about that. 

[Valerian]

Details on CPs and Matched Play. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/03/warhammer-40000-matched-play-points-and-an-appgw-homepage-post-1/

[Corvus Fortis]

Details on CPs and Matched Play. https://www.warhamme...omepage-post-1/

 

 

Overall point increase (we know, that GW will screw it, don't we?) and only 12 CP for 2k... I don't like it. Plus, forgoing shooting or charge for gaining more VP will hurt GK. Or, maybe, we will see more servitors in our lists?

[Skywrath]

 

Details on CPs and Matched Play. https://www.warhamme...omepage-post-1/

 

 

Overall point increase (we know, that GW will screw it, don't we?) and only 12 CP for 2k... I don't like it. Plus, forgoing shooting or charge for gaining more VP will hurt GK. Or, maybe, we will see more servitors in our lists?

 

Call me idealistic (shocker, I know), but they did imply they are re-balancing everything, which could actually include stratagems. However, after looking at that link, I'm also in disagreement about the direction they are taking. As you pointed out, standing still and doing nothing, or spreading your army in a uber-competitive environment is not a good idea at all. Of course, I suspect you could refresh that selection for something more viable for our gameplay, but other than that, not promising. Those points brackets for matched - was that set in stone, across the board, or still some degree of flexibility remains? For instance, over here we have our tournaments at 1750, but according to that list, that means it will be upgraded to 1000 or 2000?

 

One positive thing though - that link gives us a new look at our new 9th edition data-cards. 

[Valerian]

 

 Plus, forgoing shooting or charge for gaining more VP will hurt GK. Or, maybe, we will see more servitors in our lists?

 

If you don't want to forgo your shooting, then don't select the Secondary Objectives that would require that.

 

 Those points brackets for matched - was that set in stone, across the board, or still some degree of flexibility remains? For instance, over here we have our tournaments at 1750, but according to that list, that means it will be upgraded to 1000 or 2000?

 

 

Your TO should update the points for their games to 2000.  Since there is an across-the-board price hike coming with 9e, you'll probably be playing with about the same amount of stuff that you are right now.

[Seizeman]

We get extra CP each turn on top of those 12, so we will probably end up with quite a bit more CP than before, just not all of them at once (which is a good thing).

 

The point increase is also good because it allow for better balancing. If 2000 points feels small, just play 2500 with 15 CP. I wouldn't be surprised if 2500 end up being the new standard game size, just like 1750 was the standard at the beginning of 8th.

 

Missions have always worked in the same way, you have to balance holding objectives and  dealing damage. Objectives look pretty similar to current ITC, anyway.

[Corvus Fortis]

If you don't want to forgo your shooting, then don't select the Secondary Objectives that would require that.

 

 

Fair enough. I hope, there would be enough stuff for GK secondaries. And I often have 1-2 strike squads sitting on points out of range anyway. I already thought about bringing servitors.

[WAR]

I have 8 servitors (4 melee 4 Heavy bolters) waiting to get painted to protect my Techmarine that  will changes tides and fix the ven dread in low point games.....

[ValourousHeart]

 

If you don't want to forgo your shooting, then don't select the Secondary Objectives that would require that.

 

 

Fair enough. I hope, there would be enough stuff for GK secondaries. And I often have 1-2 strike squads sitting on points out of range anyway. I already thought about bringing servitors.

 

There are.   ITC has secondaries for every match up and you get to pick your secondaries after you know what you are facing.

 

The examples in the article seem to be just renamed versions of the ITC list.

 

Check out this guide for choosing ITC secondaries. HERE

[Corvus Fortis]

And looks like the Maelstrom is gone...

[Valerian]

And looks like the Maelstrom is gone...

Yeah, probably. It was always a weird system anyway.

[Corvus Fortis]

But I really liked Schemes of War. They were not perfect, but I viewed it as a step in right direction. And it was pretty fun.

[Corvus Fortis]

Interesting stuff from today's stream:

- armies will game CP in the Command Phase only in some missions, it is not the core rule;

- first taken detachment is free;

- dedicated transport could be taken only for infantry slots, not for any slots;

- some matched play rules will be transfered to core rules;

- there will a core rules stratagem which allow to deal mortal wounds to a unit, which falls back.

[Skywrath]

Interesting stuff from today's stream:

- armies will game CP in the Command Phase only in some missions, it is not the core rule;

- first taken detachment is free;

- dedicated transport could be taken only for infantry slots, not for any slots;

- some matched play rules will be transfered to core rules;

- there will a core rules stratagem which allow to deal mortal wounds to a unit, which falls back.

 

Some questions for that though:

 

1. Did it specify what matched play rules? 

2. How often do units fall back to get the maximum effect from that strategem?

[Corvus Fortis]

And here goes the article

 

1. Did it specify what matched play rules? 

2. How often do units fall back to get the maximum effect from that strategem?

 

 

1. The only example is CP refund. Nothing specific beyond it.

2. I'm not sure, what do you mean. The stratagem works this way: you roll for every friendly model which is in the engagement range of an enemy unit (I assume, within 1" and models within 1" of that models). For each 6 enemy unit suffers a mortal wound. 

[Skywrath]

I meant to say, how often is fall back employed? Due to my very limited experience playing on the TT, I don't see a lot of people doing that, barring Ultramarines.

[Corvus Fortis]

I meant to say, how often is fall back employed? 

 

 

In short - a lot. And it is very annoying, especially when you face a lot of fly vehicles.

[Seizeman]

That "anti fall back" stratagem looks extremely useless, specially for us. I can't imagine anything but big tyranid/ork hordes using that, and even then it is very situational. This doesn't solve the falling back issue at all. I hope melee gets some buffs, or shooting will still be king.

 

On, CP, we get 13 + 1/turn right now. With 9th, it will be about 10-12 +2/turn, so we will actually get less CP than before. Armies that now have 15+ points will have significantly less, so that's an overall buff for us, I guess. My prediction is that 2500 will become the new standard and we will play with 18 CP base.

 

I can't see how the dedicated transport limit changes anything.

[Valerian]

Just a wee bit more information today on game sizes:  https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/05/four-sizes-fit-allgw-homepage-post-1/

[Captain Coolpants]

So for us, forget about the reductions we've had in the last few updates. We're likely going to get 10% + more expensive. Ultimately means nothing if everyone else's army goes up as its all relative.

 

Just means 2000pts will likely be the go-to size just so we can play with all our toys

Edited June 6, 2020 by Captain Coolpants

[Seizeman]

Well, they only showed two of the new point values. They increased the cost of cultists by 50% but only increased intercessors by 17% (they are still ridiculously chaeap), so not all increases are equal, and they could screw us again. We all know GW is really bad at balancing, particularly when it comes to point costs.