9th edition implications for the GK

[Captain Coolpants]

 

Remember spending cp on detachments isn't really that bad. We automatically get additional cp each turn.

 

2 CP is one less psybolt ammunition, one less redoubtablel defence, one less trans-human physiology, two less critical rerolls, one less taken relic, etc. etc. This is a lot more than it seems.

yeah when you put it that way.

Compared to last edition, where we didn't actually get any additional cp each turn, its still a net gain really though yes?

 

Its does make me wonder though, do you guys think they will remove abilities to recycle spent cp?

Edited June 27, 2020 by Captain Coolpants

[Seizeman]

 

 

Remember spending cp on detachments isn't really that bad. We automatically get additional cp each turn.

2 CP is one less psybolt ammunition, one less redoubtablel defence, one less trans-human physiology, two less critical rerolls, one less taken relic, etc. etc. This is a lot more than it seems.

yeah when you put it that way.

Compared to last edition, where we didn't actually get any additional cp each turn, its still a net gain really though yes?

 

Its does make me wonder though, do you guys think they will remove abilities to recycle spent cp?

 

 

It depends on whether we need a second detachment and how much it costs. If we start with 11+ CP (so only one detachment or one extra detachment that costs 1 CP), we break even by turn 2 and gain extra points from turn 3 onwards. Since we can't expend all our points turn 1 anyway, that would be a net positive for us.

 

If we start with 10 CP, we don't break even until turn 3. We would have more CP than we do now if the game lasts 4+ turns, but points early are worth more than points later, so that will probably be a loss (not a massive one, tho) when it comes to CP effectiveness.

 

I don't think they'll remove CP gaining abilities. Every army has some of them, and we have  a specific power just for that (designed with 9th in mind, supposedly). With the limit to 1 per turn, I think it's perfectly balanced.

[Corvus Fortis]

On 2k points we'll start with 12 cp+2 Cp every turn (Empyrean Domination+Mission CP). This is more than we can get today with dual battalion+ED. I often start games with 12 CP (2 battalions+Battleforged-Armory of Titan). 

 

Losing two CP at the start is problematic, but it is better then suffer limitations. We usually need at least 4 HQ and I am going with 5. Going brigade will inevitably lead to taxes, like 3 bare purgation squads. And this will certainly deny us paladin bomb builds, leading to the classic pre PA 3+ spam. 

 

These are all speculations, but I am certain, that we won't be able to avoid taking a detachment. 

[Seizeman]

Amazing new buff for us: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/29/faction-focus-genestealer-cults/

 

Units with 6+ models must be within 2" (5" vertically) of TWO models from the same unit to be in coherency, so those units have to form in two rows or in a circle. This means you can't conga line anymore and units will take much less space, making deep strike extremely more powerful.

[Valerian]

Yep, no more conga lines.

[Corvus Fortis]

Yeah, this one's certainly great!

 

But I reckon, we could have problems with actions, because they turn off units for a turn, if I got it right, which is unacceptable for an elite force like our's. Or, once again, I'm looking at Servitors...

[Valerian]

Those new Primaris Eradicators are going to be rough on our Paladin blobs and GMNDKs. I’ve been spending the day celebrating them for my Space Wolves, but man are they going to be hard on my Grey Knights.

[Archaeinox]

Yall might have a faction focus today

[Valerian]

Grey Knights to be discussed on Warhammer Twitch in 15 minutes.

[Skywrath]

Very curious to see what's going on.

[Valerian]

Grey Knights to be discussed on Warhammer Twitch in 15 minutes.

 

Nothing worth hearing.  25 minutes of chatter.  Looking for the faction focus to drop shortly, though, and maybe we'll get something worthwhile from that.

[Skywrath]

Yeah, that was fairly disappointing, doubt we will get anything worth of note in the faction focus either. However I did find it pretty funny how they said with the recent changes more people will be playing GK - that didn't sound right at all. 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/30/faction-focus-grey-knights/

 

EDIT: Just as predicted, virtually nothing of note.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Skywrath

[Valerian]

Yeah, not a single new sliver of information. Sigh.

[Skywrath]

Yeah, not a single new sliver of information. Sigh.

 

*comforts you in Grey Knight* Suffer well, brother.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Those new Primaris Eradicators are going to be rough on our Paladin blobs and GMNDKs. I’ve been spending the day celebrating them for my Space Wolves, but man are they going to be hard on my Grey Knights.

Yeah, those are going to be quite brutal on my GK, TS and EC whilst neither my salamanders or wolves could really use them. Like that unit alone has me fairly worried about 9th, if for nothing else it is probably one of the ugliest examples of a primaris unit being just better then everyone else.

I really want to be wrong, but between those and actions I have a feeling I may not be using my Grey Knights much 9th.

[Skywrath]

 

Those new Primaris Eradicators are going to be rough on our Paladin blobs and GMNDKs. I’ve been spending the day celebrating them for my Space Wolves, but man are they going to be hard on my Grey Knights.

Yeah, those are going to be quite brutal on my GK, TS and EC whilst neither my salamanders or wolves could really use them. Like that unit alone has me fairly worried about 9th, if for nothing else it is probably one of the ugliest examples of a primaris unit being just better then everyone else.

I really want to be wrong, but between those and actions I have a feeling I may not be using my Grey Knights much 9th.

 

 

Sadly, I think I'm in the same boat, and off the same opinion as you are. Seems like 9th is go primaris, or go home. 

[Seizeman]

You guys are grossly overreacting. A unit of eradicators, with full rerolls, averages 1 dead paladin per turn, and they have to get within 24" to do so, meaning they can be smited/psybolted without much issue. I can't see them costing less than 40 points each, so they seem perfectly manageable, and that's assuming SM rerolls or GM don't get nerfed in some way.

[Corvus Fortis]

IDK, why everyone is afraid so much of eradicators. We had lots of melta, plasma and laser weapons. Paladins are not afraid of few number of shots. We can just activate THP + RD. This and sanctuary will negate most of the damage.

[Valerian]

You guys are grossly overreacting. A unit of eradicators, with full rerolls, averages 1 dead paladin per turn, and they have to get within 24" to do so, meaning they can be smited/psybolted without much issue. I can't see them costing less than 40 points each, so they seem perfectly manageable, and that's assuming SM rerolls or GM don't get nerfed in some way.

Are you accounting for them firing twice? Because I’m getting double your results, without any re-rolls to hit or wound.

 

Smites pretty easy to screen them from, since you just have to have literally any unit closer. Put Eradicators in Ruins, or whatever light cover terrain you have, and they’ll be 3W, T5, 2+ save models, which aren’t going to be all that concerned about Storm Bolter fire.

 

Certainly nothing to panic about, but 2 or 3 small squads of these a a legit threat.

[Corvus Fortis]

Smites pretty easy to screen them from, since you just have to have literally any unit closer. Put Eradicators in Ruins, or whatever light cover terrain you have, and they’ll be 3W, T5, 2+ save models, which aren’t going to be all that concerned about Storm Bolter fire.

 

 

Edict Imperator+couple of smites = no screen. You are putting them at best situation possible - both in ruins and in range. But still we have Ignore Cover/LoS and AP up to -3 on damage 2 weapons, if the Tide of Convergence is on. Besides, Marines don't have proper chaff, every wound counts. 

[Valerian]

IDK, why everyone is afraid so much of eradicators. We had lots of melta, plasma and laser weapons. Paladins are not afraid of few number of shots. We can just activate THP + RD. This and sanctuary will negate most of the damage.

All true, but then you’ve spent 4 CP to keep them safer for a single phase. Taking away a huge chunk of CP that a Grey Knights player probably had other plans for.

[Valerian]

 

Smites pretty easy to screen them from, since you just have to have literally any unit closer. Put Eradicators in Ruins, or whatever light cover terrain you have, and they’ll be 3W, T5, 2+ save models, which aren’t going to be all that concerned about Storm Bolter fire.

 

 

Edict Imperator+couple of smites = no screen. You are putting them at best situation possible - both in ruins and in range. But still we have Ignore Cover/LoS and AP up to -3 on damage 2 weapons, if the Tide of Convergence is on. Besides, Marines don't have proper chaff, every wound counts.

Maybe, but I’m just imagining the situation as I’d play it out. Eventually the Paladin blob has to come out and play, so they’re going to move into range; they can’t hide in the corner in an objective based game and win, when they’re the bulk of a GK army. And I’m definitely putting the Eradicators in cover in most situations. And I screen vs Smites with 3 Impulsors, that can handle several turns of d2 mortal wounds just fine.

[Brother Lunkhead]

OKaaayyyy..... So there was nothing in the Faction Focus that we didn't already know. We still have to be very careful with our army deployment and play strategy...… Be careful and waste nothing. Once again nothing really new there. Well, so what The important thing is GKs have not been forgotten and they are still in the game. Since I'm not expecting any dynamic changes until we get the Primaris treatment, I'm happy with that

[Seizeman]

Yes, I accounted for eradicators shooting twice. With sanctuary, armoured resilience and redoubtable defense (no transhuman), only 1,25 paladins die, per turn (a bit less with tide of shadows). Those are the standard buffs paladins get every single phase, so that's the commonest scenario.

 

It's not easy to screen for smites when you have to be within 24". What are you going to screen with, intercessors? They are not bad targets anyway and you have to move your whole army forward if you want to buff+screen them, which is not great against Grey Knights. In any case, psybolt ammunition easily deals with them, cover or not. If the opponent wants to spend 250 points on two units of eliminators to kill two paladins before they get destroyed, I'm happy to oblige.

 

Also, melta stuff has a lot to compete with when it comes to anti-vehicle, and 24" is still a relatively short range.

[Corvus Fortis]

All true, but then you’ve spent 4 CP to keep them safer for a single phase. Taking away a huge chunk of CP that a Grey Knights player probably had other plans for.

 

 

That's how I play it anyway. I try not touse THP, but if there's a lot of S8 high AP shooting, I don't hesitate. While paladins live, I can do damage with smites with my characters. 

 

Maybe, but I’m just imagining the situation as I’d play it out. Eventually the Paladin blob has to come out and play, so they’re going to move into range; they can’t hide in the corner in an objective based game and win, when they’re the bulk of a GK army. And I’m definitely putting the Eradicators in cover in most situations. And I screen vs Smites with 3 Impulsors, that can handle several turns of d2 mortal wounds just fine.

 

 

Is anybody taking impulsors at all? Honestly, never seen them. Anyway, we can chose where to strike or just blow them with psycannons/psy ammo. The time will tell, but I am not concerned with eradicators at all. Dark angels can bring way more scary massed plasma and I can survive it.