9th edition implications for the GK

[Skywrath]

 

All true, but then you’ve spent 4 CP to keep them safer for a single phase. Taking away a huge chunk of CP that a Grey Knights player probably had other plans for.

 

 

That's how I play it anyway. I try not touse THP, but if there's a lot of S8 high AP shooting, I don't hesitate. While paladins live, I can do damage with smites with my characters. 

 

Maybe, but I’m just imagining the situation as I’d play it out. Eventually the Paladin blob has to come out and play, so they’re going to move into range; they can’t hide in the corner in an objective based game and win, when they’re the bulk of a GK army. And I’m definitely putting the Eradicators in cover in most situations. And I screen vs Smites with 3 Impulsors, that can handle several turns of d2 mortal wounds just fine.

 

 

Is anybody taking impulsors at all? Honestly, never seen them. Anyway, we can chose where to strike or just blow them with psycannons/psy ammo. The time will tell, but I am not concerned with eradicators at all. Dark angels can bring way more scary massed plasma and I can survive it. 

 

 

Pretty sure SW uses impulsors to get into combat. I'm no SW expert though, but seeing how there are a fair amount of lists, with impulsors in it, on the SW army forum, seems like it's more common than we both realise. 

 

Onto a faction that I actually know what I'm talking about  - with the primaris outriders, I'm not sure they will get the plasma talon upgrade, which means you might be seeing a lot less plasma focused DA. Seeing how they have 4 wounds, compared to the bikers 2, they will be an auto-take for sure. In less RW focused lists, and more greenwing ones perhaps, you might see some hellblasters or inceptors. In my DA list, I run 6 inceptors (plasma ones obviously), however both at the current time both are niche choices, by general consensus. I just like the defy the meta. 

[Valerian]

Is anybody taking impulsors at all? Honestly, never seen them.

 

They’re one of the best transports in the game. As more folks invest in their Primaris armies, or add Primaris components to existing armies, I expect they’ll become more and more popular. I imagine some folks are just put off by the actual model price tag, at about $75 each; especially if they’re a long-time player who already invested in Rhinos, Razorbacks, etc.

 

But yeah, Impulsors are pure gold, and will happily eat up several turns worth of Smites to keep all of your Infantry safe.

 

Back to my initial comment, though, I agree that we shouldn’t panic, but Eradicators are a legit threat. And if you put all of the Psychic and Stratagem protections on your Paladins, then they can just focus on your NDKs or other juicy vehicle targets, instead. Now, competitive 8e lists didn’t typically use any NDKs or vehicles, but with the known changes to 9e mechanics a lot of folks were getting excited about the possibilities in using them once more.

[Corvus Fortis]

then they can just focus on your NDKs or other juicy vehicle targets, instead

 

 

You cannot lose a vehicle if you don't have a vehicle.

 

I still don't see any changes that will make our vehicles viable, besides better terrain. GMNDK's shooting is poor, ignore heavy won't bringing him anything. Shooting in close combat allows him to clean chaff, that tries to tie him, but that's it. They are still 2+/4++ t6 12w models and need good investments to be able to survive. I'd better invest into my paladins.

[Valerian]

New edition standard game length is now 5 turns. No more random rolls to see if you keep on playing to 6 or 7.

 

Once again, a little less randomness, and you can better plan moves and actions in the late game, as you’ll know exactly when it’s over.

 

 

This was stated in the GSC faction focus, but I passed right over it on first read through.

[Corvus Fortis]

Stormbolters are 3 pts now.

[Seizeman]

New edition standard game length is now 5 turns. No more random rolls to see if you keep on playing to 6 or 7.

 

Once again, a little less randomness, and you can better plan moves and actions in the late game, as you’ll know exactly when it’s over.

 

 

This was stated in the GSC faction focus, but I passed right over it on first read through.

 

Everyone I know played with ITC rules (even for casual games), and that already had a fixed 6 turn duration. However, the 6th turn is almost never played or is not relevant, since the battle is already decided by that point.

 

In any case, with this, the smaller table size, smaller armies and no overwatch, games will be faster, which is great for tournament play.

[Holier Than Thou]

Stormbolters are 3 pts now.

How do you know that?

[Valerian]

 

Stormbolters are 3 pts now.<_<

How do you know that?

A lot of points have leaked.

[Valerian]

New points. Add salt to taste: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lGSKz3i2l4PLCRRNnbv0vz7YfY0Nvt9kzArcBL8H_O8/htmlview

[Shinkosh]

Todays Warhammer TV faction focus is on the 1ksons.  Hopefully if there is any updates to the psychic phase they will mention them there.  It can't be worse than ours yesterday when they spend 30 minutes reminding us all that Grey Knights are one of the 'expensive' factions.

[Skywrath]

New points. Add salt to taste: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lGSKz3i2l4PLCRRNnbv0vz7YfY0Nvt9kzArcBL8H_O8/htmlview

 

Thanks! Well can safely say RIP my Aggressor idea...

 

Also copied that over to the DA forum, ty sir. 

[Valerian]

July 11th Preorders and 25th release for Indomitus and the New Edition.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/01/indomitus-pre-order-date-revealed/

[Valerian]

[casb1965]

July 11th Preorders and 25th release for Indomitus and the New Edition.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/01/indomitus-pre-order-date-revealed/

 

The way GW are going it might be a strong pass from me and an exit from the game. Unless there is a big balancing act against primaris there will be no point in playing. Also the introduction of primarchs in to 9th is a big turn off.

[Corvus Fortis]

 

RIP, Supreme Command.

[Corvus Fortis]

Some more little nerfs for us:

1) Psykers cannot manifest powers after fallback (from the new TS articles);

2) Now you have to resolve all powers of one psyker before moving to another (leaked psyphase). Also, Psychic focus is a core rule now.

[Valerian]

[Captain Antargo]

Recently posted on the Warhammer Community page: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/30/faction-focus-grey-knights/

 

Here are the stratagems:

[Corvus Fortis]

Excuse me, have you noticed Psychic Awakening: Ritual of the Damned at all? We have these ones for like 6 months.

[Captain Coolpants]

In the full leak. It seems that storm Shields are a 4++ save and a +1 to regular saves.

 

Wonder if Draigo will be given a special shield or get these same rules?

[Corvus Fortis]

Wonder if Draigo will be given a special shield or get these same rules?

 

 

 

It would be better against AP-1, same against ap-2, worse against Ap-3 and up. But we'll see.

 

By the way - quick question. 

 

 

Rule on refunding CP (not the quick reference below) mentions only abilities tied to using stratagems. Does this mean that we can both CP from Empyrean domination and, say, Assassin's Target Eliminated stratagem on the same turn? Or I am missing something?

[Seizeman]

Full rules leak: https://imgur.com/a/J4Bygoq

 

Interesting changes so far:

 

- Flyers can't shoot when they fall back.

- Disembarking units must be set wholly within 3" of the transport.

- A psyker must cast all of his powers before selecting another psyker (you can't alternate between units).

- With weapons with different modes, you must chose which mode you are using when you declare targets.

- Characters must be close to a friendly unit (monster, vehicle, 3+ models) to be untargetable.

- If a unit is shooting different weapons, you have to shoot them in batches (first all plasma, then all bolters, or first all bolters, then all plasma, you can't alternate), same for melee.

- After charging units have attacked, the non-active player is the first to choose a unit to fight with.

- Models in the "second row" (not in engagement range) must be 1/2" of a friendly model within 1/2" of an enemy to be able to fight, insteaf of 1" of a model within 1".

- Vanguard/outrider/spearhead cost 3 CP, so the cheapest detachment is a patrol at 2 CP.

- Reroll stratagem can't be used for abilities, only for "normal" rolls. Also, you don't reroll a single dice, but the whole roll, which is quite relevant for charges and psychic tests.

 

Rules are now much more clearly worded, and very difficult to misinterpret.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Seizeman

[Holier Than Thou]

Looking at some of those points and the full rules I’d say Games Workshop have gone mad.

 

Just some examples of where I think they have gone badly wrong.

 

Points. Points. Points. The new Eradicators look like they are 40 points, a Multi-Melta Devastator is 30. For 10 points they get a point of toughness, triple the wounds, a better gun and a rule that makes the gun even better. Bolt Sniper Rifles (I believe they are what Eliminators get?) go from 3 points to 0, Sniper Rifles which are worse weapons stay at 2 points? Insanity.

 

Specialist Detachments (Vanguard, Outrider, Spearhead) cosy 3CP and never refund it, even if your Warlord is in it. Seriously, who is ever going to pick one of them? They should have been 1CP.

 

Still can’t get out of a transport after it’s moved.

 

No change (that I can see) to Fall Back so melee-centric armies are still f***ed.

 

I don’t know, maybe the leaks are a hoax, it seems a week or two earlier than you usually get leaks. If they’re genuine? Oh dear.

 

 

Edit: and I’ve just read the article on the preorder. Chapter Approved goes on preorder the same day, with all the new points? So our Codexes are still completely valid, except they’re not?

Edited July 1, 2020 by Holier Than Thou

[Valerian]

Full rules leak: https://imgur.com/a/J4Bygoq

 

Interesting changes so far:

 

- Flyers can't shoot when they fall back.

- Disembarking units must be set wholly within 3" of the transport.

- A psyker must cast all of his powers before selecting another psyker (you can't alternate between units).

- With weapons with different modes, you must chose which mode you are using when you declare targets.

- Characters must be close to a friendly unit (monster, vehicle, 3+ models) to be untargetable.

- If a unit is shooting different weapons, you have to shoot them in batches (first all plasma, then all bolters, or first all bolters, then all plasma, you can't alternate), same for melee.

- After charging units have attacked, the non-active player is the first to choose a unit to fight with.

- Models in the "second row" (not in engagement range) must be 1/2" of a friendly model within 1/2" of an enemy to be able to fight, insteaf of 1" of a model within 1".

- Vanguard/outrider/spearhead cost 3 CP, so the cheapest detachment is a patrol at 2 CP.

- Reroll stratagem can't be used for abilities, only for "normal" rolls. Also, you don't reroll a single dice, but the whole roll, which is quite relevant for charges and psychic tests.

 

Rules are now much more clearly worded, and very difficult to misinterpret.

 

I've already got a separate post up with a running summary of changes.  Feel free to add to it.  Here's the direct link:  http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364820-full-leak-of-new-rules/

[Seizeman]

Most unit exclusive weapons now cost 0 points but have been included in the model's base price (in this case, giving the wargear a specific cost was simply stupid). Eliminators have gone from 18 points base to 28, which results in a 7 points increase when you factor in the rifle. Sniper rifles have a cost because they are optional wargear.

 

The problem with space marines is not new. Regular marines have long been useless and I don't think they have plans to change that. Other than that, the points adjustments seem pretty balanced. They have significantly increased the point costs of overperforming units, like eliminators, thunderfire cannons, centurions and impulsors.

 

About detachments, they look perfectly ok to me. If they costed only 1 CP, the whole system would be absolutely pointless. Paying 3 CP to make your army basically unbound is totally fair and, if we are being realistic, you will never need anything more than a battallion + patrol if you are playing 2000 points. This also incentivises the use of troops, which is a good thing.

 

Units falling back was never the big deal with combat armies. If they get into combat, there's usually nothing left to fall back. The problem was not being able to reach combat in the first place, and smaller table sizes, better terrain rules and no overwatch help inmensely in that regard.