My first new edition!

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

So, uh... I started the hobby about two years ago, well into 8th. I have never had an edition transition happen before. So... how's this work? I don't see people playing older versions like with, say, D&D, so I'd assume it's an update or die sort of thing. I've never spent a penny on books, but... will the new app sink Battlescribe? Or will it actually make it easier for Battlescribe's volunteers to operate by offering easy access? That said, I'm excited. Volkite and assault Primaris are always exciting. Rules collapsing to make it easier is also exciting.

 

My question to the forum is this: What's your take on previous edition changes as they compare to this one?

[alfred_the_great]

Don't believe the hype; don't over-react; keeping having fun with your mates.

[TootiusNootius]

So, uh... I started the hobby about two years ago, well into 8th. I have never had an edition transition happen before. So... how's this work? I don't see people playing older versions like with, say, D&D, so I'd assume it's an update or die sort of thing. I've never spent a penny on books, but... will the new app sink Battlescribe? Or will it actually make it easier for Battlescribe's volunteers to operate by offering easy access? That said, I'm excited. Volkite and assault Primaris are always exciting. Rules collapsing to make it easier is also exciting.

 

My question to the forum is this: What's your take on previous edition changes as they compare to this one?

 

Well unlike the jump from 7th to 8th for instance, you don't have to throw away your current books and templates and wait til GW announces your book, so you can comfortably pick up the Marines codex if you wish or just sit and wait to see how much they give you in the new App. They may do an AOS where they give you all the stats and you pay for the fluff and extra stuff which you may be able to just get elsewhere. 

 

From the looks of it it's going to be pretty smooth, wait, split the new box with a friend for your Volkite boys [i can't believe Marines are getting it and not Admech... Cawls giving tech away now] and take the new rulebook and learn the new edition and you're set to go from the looks of it - They'll probably revamp a load of the books as they go, although seeing as Marines 2.0 is already out I'd say you're safe for a while. If you're not already get familiar with 8th seeing as it's looking like the updated 8th people were speculating it was.

 

Just play and have fun.

Edited May 23, 2020 by TootiusNootius

[Brother Tyler]

What's your take on previous edition changes as they compare to this one?

This will not be a huge change to the game. We saw huge changes in the game in the shifts to 2nd, 3rd, and 8th editions. All of the other changes were small incremental changes, refinements and additions rather than drastic overhauls. Yes, there will be some component changes of the new edition that change things up a bit, but familiarity with the current edition is a solid foundation for the new edition. Today's previews were nothing more than teasers, so it's impossible for those of us that aren't in the know to say with any certainty exactly how things will change and how armies will be impacted; and those of us that are in the know can't say because of NDAs .

 

Ultimately, don't sweat it. There will be changes/additions that you like and changes/additions that you don't like. And everyone will have their own opinions about what is good/bad/unnecessary and missed opportunities (and no one is going to agree). It will still be a fun game and something with which you are largely familiar, just different in small ways.

[Ishagu]

This edition is an update and tune up of the current rules.

Your army will still work but the game dynamic and the core mechanics will be updated.

 

Look forward to it. New edition means more excitement, more variety and more fun.

 

Typically a new edition has 99.9% of players migrate over to it immediately and it replaces the older one.

 

Because you already have an exiting army/armies all you'll need is the new rulebook.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Ishagu

[Qkhitai]

I don't see people playing older versions like with, say, D&D, so I'd assume it's an update or die sort of thing.

 

It is for the most part, or at least that's how both GW and the community frame it. It's always struck me as a little odd, as it's something very Warhammer-specific when you look at the miniature wargaming community as a whole; no one else really makes so much of a fuss about editions or rules systems. Nothing stopping you from playing older editions with your friends though, and there are definitely a lot of gaming groups who still play with 2nd and 3rd ed rules (and, shock horror, some people even use their Warhammer miniatures with other rules systems). Trouble is, new models and units coming out never get retroactive rules for older editions, so if you want to play those editions, you can't use any flashy new toys without homebrewing them. Then again, in terms of army lists for the major factions, very little has actually changed from 3rd to 8th; things should be at least 80% the same in terms of models shared between them. I mean, what do Eldar have now that they didn't in 3rd? The Wraithknight and their fliers? Actually kind of depressing when you think about it.

[ThePenitentOne]

I'm pretty negative about it right now, but it isn't as bad as it could have been.

 

The only thing I hated is that the development cycle starts over. So there were some really niche armies and cool stuff that they could have released if 8th had continued. Now that won't happen because we have to wait for GW to do whatever they're going to do to update the existing stuff.

 

In another forum, we were trying to figure out whether Emperor's Children or the World Eaters would get a dex of their own first. Through the lens of yesterday, these things were just around the corner. Through the lens of today, they're at least 3 years away if we get them at all.

 

That's the damage that I'm upset about. The actual updating or rules changes might not be a bad thing. If you want to know what to expect, just think about your last two years, and expect it all to happen again.

 

Another thing you might prepare for: the first army to get a 9th ed dex (yay! Space Marines!) will kick everyone's butt until we get our own dexes. This is a part of why we can't get any "New" dexes until the old ones are redone- there is just too much emphasis on making sure everyone's up to date that nothing can be truly new until everything's been rebooted.

 

Obviously, they'll throw around a new unit here or there. They might even surprise us with an actual new dex every now and again; this edition gave us Deathguard and Adeptus Custodes while the reboot schedule was still in full swing. And when a rebooted dex does drop, it will probably do so with one or two new models. But the priority will be rereleasing evything that already exists.

[Cruor Vault]

If you pack all the changes we've seen in 8th edition from the BIG FAQs, Chapter Approved, Designers Commentary, and BRB FAQs you get a good idea of the level of changes to expect for the next edition.

 

While the META will 100% change, nothing you own currently will be phased out and likely you won't even need to purchase a new Codex for a year or two (depending on your faction).

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Why would they need to rewrite all of the codexes again? That's what PA was for. All of the books are written and valid, all of the armies are brought up to date.

If anything I see this edition as the perfect opportunity for all of those new projects to take centre stage. The rules writers have busted a gut getting all of the codexes out in the shortest time scale ever. With that done they can rest on their laurels (a little), confident that nothing is YEARS behind the design curve like with other 'update' editions.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Brother Adelard

[Hrvat]

Why would they need to rewrite all of the codexes again? That's what PA was for. All of the books are written and valid, all of the armies are brought up to date.

If anything I see this edition as the perfect opportunity for all of those new projects to take centre stage. The rules writers have busted a gut getting all of the codexes out in the shortest time scale ever. With that done they can rest on their laurels (a little), confident that nothing is YEARS behind the design curve like with other 'update' editions.

At least the SM codex will need another update. The spoilers show at least 7 entries to be added to the SM forces.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

 

 

Why would they need to rewrite all of the codexes again? That's what PA was for. All of the books are written and valid, all of the armies are brought up to date.

If anything I see this edition as the perfect opportunity for all of those new projects to take centre stage. The rules writers have busted a gut getting all of the codexes out in the shortest time scale ever. With that done they can rest on their laurels (a little), confident that nothing is YEARS behind the design curve like with other 'update' editions.

At least the SM codex will need another update. The spoilers show at least 7 entries to be added to the SM forces.

Yeah, but datasheets aren't going to massively impact things.

[ThePenitentOne]

If you pack all the changes we've seen in 8th edition from the BIG FAQs, Chapter Approved, Designers Commentary, and BRB FAQs you get a good idea of the level of changes to expect for the next edition.

 

While the META will 100% change, nothing you own currently will be phased out and likely you won't even need to purchase a new Codex for a year or two (depending on your faction).

 

Again, I appreciate your positive outlook- thanks for trying to get me to see some of the upsides; they are there if I can get past the blinding rage.

 

But lets take some bets. From the release date of 9th, I predict we'll get 4-6 dexes. Obviously, space marines and necrons will be two. There will be no new campaign to drive releases for all of the factions in the first year. There will be no fewer than 20 marine releases in the first year (including BA, DA and SW, but not DW or GK). There will be no more than two new releases for any other faction except Necrons. There will be no new noise marines or Emperor's Children models in the first year- if ever. There will be no new plastic aspect in the first year. There will be no returning Drukhari characters in the first year (and no new ones either). Imperial Agents will languish for at least two years, and again, I now doubt we'll ever get it because by the time there's design space, we'll be pushing tenth.

 

If we see a new army in the first year, it will be traitor guard, but I think that will wait until year two. Ynnari are a wild card- GW may finally create a bespoke set of troops for the faction... but probably not, because MARINES!

 

We could still get a big Guard rerelease in the first year, but I'm not sure.

 

Edit: Sorry, still so angry I quoted the wrong guy.

Edited May 23, 2020 by ThePenitentOne

[Noserenda]

Dude, i think thats taking what you think to be the absolute worst scenario, its exactly as likely that Fulgrim and co will be out in September followed by an Exodites release or something. New models will get rules in boxes and while a new Codex Necrons seems a bit more likely i dont think a marines one is actually guaranteed, let alone all of the sub codexes. I mean the vanguard still arent in all the books and that was over a year ago, and it was, what, 6 months ish to get the new codex after they dropped? Which i suspect had more to do with them wanting to make Space Marines sexy than just to get all the models in one book :) 

Especially with fairly dynamic points adjustments, they dont need a whole new book if things change when they can tweak the affected units up or down.

So really, one or two Codexes and their associated minis around the release and then GW can do whatever it wants again. Boom.

[Cruor Vault]

 

Again, I appreciate your positive outlook- thanks for trying to get me to see some of the upsides; they are there if I can get past the blinding rage.

 

But lets take some bets. From the release date of 9th, I predict we'll get 4-6 dexes. Obviously, space marines and necrons will be two. There will be no new campaign to drive releases for all of the factions in the first year. There will be no fewer than 20 marine releases in the first year (including BA, DA and SW, but not DW or GK). There will be no more than two new releases for any other faction except Necrons. There will be no new noise marines or Emperor's Children models in the first year- if ever. There will be no new plastic aspect in the first year. There will be no returning Drukhari characters in the first year (and no new ones either). Imperial Agents will languish for at least two years, and again, I now doubt we'll ever get it because by the time there's design space, we'll be pushing tenth.

 

If we see a new army in the first year, it will be traitor guard, but I think that will wait until year two. Ynnari are a wild card- GW may finally create a bespoke set of troops for the faction... but probably not, because MARINES!

 

We could still get a big Guard rerelease in the first year, but I'm not sure.

 

Edit: Sorry, still so angry I quoted the wrong guy.

 

 

You're making a LOT of assumptions about what the first waves of 9th edition are going to be.

 

With other editions that weren't full reboots (IE: all of them except 3rd and 8th) pretty much only Marines were guaranteed a brand new book right away.

 

There's no reason to think that other factions won't get some love.  

 

We Know FOR A FACT there are at-least a dozen new units for the Necrons coming out, some of which are revamps of older things like Warriors.  This isn't even counting the remaining PA books.

 

Yes there will be a lot of Space Marine releases...  THERE ALWAYS ARE, GW makes most of their 40K profits off them.  This isn't something new, it's been this way for 25yrs.

[ThePenitentOne]

Yeah. The rage has almost left me. Tomorrow will be a better day.

 

I got blocked from posting on 40k Facebook today.

 

I wasn't even mean (snide maybe, but not mean). I try hard never to get personal or rude. But I probably unfairly trolled marine players instead of letting them have a moment of joy in hard times.

 

I still think it's going to be a really slow year one, but I'm prepared to make that the last I say about it, because it is all speculation. And of course, I do very much hope I'm wrong. So for the angst. Moving on...

[Ishagu]

Yeah. The rage has almost left me. Tomorrow will be a better day.

 

I got blocked from posting on 40k Facebook today.

 

I wasn't even mean (snide maybe, but not mean). I try hard never to get personal or rude. But I probably unfairly trolled marine players instead of letting them have a moment of joy in hard times.

 

I still think it's going to be a really slow year one, but I'm prepared to make that the last I say about it, because it is all speculation. And of course, I do very much hope I'm wrong. So for the angst. Moving on...

I think Chaos will get more releases in the next edition for sure. They are one of the most popular factions.

 

Death Guard are being updated in PA as well. Expect big upgrades for them.

[Brother Tyler]

This discussion and numerous others that sprang up/to life today here on the B&C serve as an object lesson for the OP about what a new edition is like. You can see the full range of responses and emotions. For some, a new edition is a signal of good things to come - improvements to the rules that players have been clamoring for. For others, a new edition is a signal of things they'd hoped to see not coming to fruition. Emotions range from fear to depression to anger to happiness and so on.

 

Ultimately, all we have is a small number of very vague ideas about what's coming down the pike. We don't know the specifics of anything except those things that were explicitly shown/stated (e.g., every faction will get a new codex, existing rules will work in the meantime, Primaris Space Marines will finally be trusted with pointy weapons, etc.).

 

Everyone will have their own distinct reactions to the changes of the new edition. Most of us will be generally satisfied. Some of us, generally a small minority, will be very dissatisfied. Games Workshop will never get around to completing codices for all of the factions during the lifespan of any one edition, though, as there will always be more that someone wants to see - GW might get around to the factions that player A wants to see, but player B wants to see others, and player C wants to see yet others. So we'll see GW give us a new edition of the game every few years, and they'll slowly add in new factions (and occasionally remove some). Yes, shifting efforts to a new edition will slow down development of new factions, but the balance is between getting the overall rules "right" (i.e., when to move on to a new edition) and getting satisfactory rules for all of the factions (i.e., which codices to work on).

 

Those players that really don't like the current edition always have the option to play with the rules for a previous edition. When doing this, though, they'll be limited to playing with others that are willing to play with whatever edition they choose. So pickup games at the local game store and tournaments and the like won't support those older editions. And they'll similarly have to rely on homegrown efforts or "counts as" to play those factions for which GW hasn't developed official rules - or they'll have to tolerate using rules that they find unsatisfactory when limited to official rules (e.g., players wanting to use Inquisitors are stuck with the rules in the White Dwarf issue until GW gives us something better).

 

For the majority of players, though, the new edition will be fun. There will be areas of weakness, sure, but the overall experience should be as fun as it ever was (until GW gives us a newer edition further down the road). GW will never be able to give us a "perfect" game (the Chinese already invented it ), nor will they ever be able to get around to all of the factions that players want to see. So we'll see GW improve the game incrementally via periodic new editions and a slow drip of new factions. We just need to remember that this hobby is about relaxing and having fun. Roll with the changes and don't let it get you down when GW decides to go in a different direction than the one you'd like to see them take (I long ago gave up on my dreams for Adeptus Astartes field police models ).

[Halandaar]

In another forum, we were trying to figure out whether Emperor's Children or the World Eaters would get a dex of their own first. Through the lens of yesterday, these things were just around the corner. Through the lens of today, they're at least 3 years away if we get them at all.

Death Guard say hello. They were two unit entries in 7th, and appeared as a fully fledged faction with a big range of kits and their own Codex within months of 8th Edition launching. I firmly believed that EC and WE were coming and 9th Edition doesn't change that belief.

 

From a cynical point of view, you can only make so much money selling somebody a new version of their Codex every few years. To keep the cash rolling in, GW still needs marquee model release waves to either get people with old armies to open their wallets, or to distract people from their normal armies onto the newest shiny. EC and WE fit the bill for this perfectly.

[ThePenitentOne]

 

In another forum, we were trying to figure out whether Emperor's Children or the World Eaters would get a dex of their own first. Through the lens of yesterday, these things were just around the corner. Through the lens of today, they're at least 3 years away if we get them at all.

Death Guard say hello. They were two unit entries in 7th, and appeared as a fully fledged faction with a big range of kits and their own Codex within months of 8th Edition launching. I firmly believed that EC and WE were coming and 9th Edition doesn't change that belief.

 

From a cynical point of view, you can only make so much money selling somebody a new version of their Codex every few years. To keep the cash rolling in, GW still needs marquee model release waves to either get people with old armies to open their wallets, or to distract people from their normal armies onto the newest shiny. EC and WE fit the bill for this perfectly.

 

 

Yeah, I'm taking my cues from Brother Tyler here; OP is a relatively new player, and this udpate will be awesome through that lens. There is a lot to look forward to, and it's possible that an edition update won't stymie new development as much as my knee-jerk reaction suggested. I'm looking forward to finding out more as GW starts to drop information.

[mywrathbedone]

There's nothing to it, man. The changes will be minor. They've already said as much. If you got the core system down (how could you not, it's like a dozen pages), then you're good.

 

Otherwise, if you got a crew, play what ya'll have fun with, regardless of what's new.

 

I really wish the "update or die" mentality would leave tabletops. This sort of thing isn't much an issue in video gaming. If a sequel to a multiplayer game isn't to their liking, they just rock the previous one and don't miss a beat. As you mentioned with D&D, shortly after 4E dropped, a lot of players went back to 3E because it they didn't like it... and there was nothing wrong with that. That game is still there, and always will be. It only needs players.

 

Personally, I'm not spending thousands of dollars and thousands of hours on a game only to have the devs tell me how and when I can enjoy it. I have a friggin' library of rules at this point, and me and da boyz will play whatever we want whenever we want. It's our investment.

 

Don't let people browbeat you into doing something just because. Remember, we're consumers, not influencers.

 

Obviously, if you can't get games due to everyone moving on to a new edition, then you'll have to branch out and find some more open-minded or just nostalgic gamers, or follow the majority player base with the new edition. Or, check this out, try both.