So, what's the point of assault Intercessors?

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

I'm going to warrant that these guys will actually get a jump pack when their kit comes out... that paired with the bikes we are finally seeing a true 'move' against the first born. Sprinkle in some special weapons and the optimists won't have a leg to stand on haha. 

 

I would call it VERY doubtful that they have Jump Packs in their MPK kit. GW doesn't seem to be following their old "stick a jet pack on an infantry model" design philosophy. The Jump Pack units we've seen all have poses specifically made for flight stands and their jump capability is built into the armor - check the boots on Suppressors.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think we WILL get an Assault squad with Jump capability. I just don't think it will be the Assault Intercessors. Those might (and probably will) get a different wargear option in their multi-part kit. But the Assaulty Jump Pack squad will be an entire new unit (though possibly sharing a box and body parts with the multi-part Suppressors).

[TheNewman]

[snip]

Ibris has a fair question. Might have came off overly pessimistic, but it’s I’ve wondered the same and have even asked myself what are Primaris Bikers going to do for my competitive build that Inceptors don’t already do? 

[snip]

As a primarily White Scar player I'm drooling over the prospect of Primaris Bikers that obviously have a secondary ranged weapon and Chainswords built in.  They make the awful "why the sam-feth are Scout Bikers better than regular Bikers for the same cost?" question a moot point because from the look of the things they'll be better than either unit.  You know, point cost not withstanding.

[Dracos]

 ... as a White Scar (and Dark Angel, maybe Space Wolf?) player I am ecstatic that you're getting a unit that is so iconic for your Chapter.  It still doesn't change the fact as it appears, Inceptors would still be a better choice for most armies maybe even yours. +1A and a linked pair of Bolt Rifles just don't compare to a jump pack 6 shot heavy bolter with the same toughness and wounds. I'd  call maneuverability a wash, shooting bikes lose, and melee? Even with the -1ap rumor it's close enough the shooting still makes Inceptors better so at that point ... its a point comparison. 

 

Crossing my fingers because I want them to be a competitive choice (not just for WS or DA) I'd prefer them over Inceptors if they can get the job done. I'm okay with the Gravis units look but prefer the Tacticus armor

[War Angel]

They probably provide something different from inceptors.

[Gederas]

 ... as a White Scar (and Dark Angel, maybe Space Wolf?) player I am ecstatic that you're getting a unit that is so iconic for your Chapter.  It still doesn't change the fact as it appears, Inceptors would still be a better choice for most armies maybe even yours. +1A and a linked pair of Bolt Rifles just don't compare to a jump pack 6 shot heavy bolter with the same toughness and wounds. I'd  call maneuverability a wash, shooting bikes lose, and melee? Even with the -1ap rumor it's close enough the shooting still makes Inceptors better so at that point ... its a point comparison. 

 

Crossing my fingers because I want them to be a competitive choice (not just for WS or DA) I'd prefer them over Inceptors if they can get the job done. I'm okay with the Gravis units look but prefer the Tacticus armor

Simple:

 

Bikers are cooler than Inceptors :lol:

[Hymnblade]

I mean, bikes have always had the problem of "so it's, what, a tactical marine but faster?" and I'm curious to see if/how they'll resolve that for Outriders, especially with Inceptors competing for the slot. Ostensibly they'll have some kind of special rule, if only because all Primaris units do after Intercessors and Hellblasters, but who knows how impactful it'll be.

[TheNewman]

Bikers can be armed with Chainswords and they have Stable Platform and two wounds, so they're closer to being an Autobolter Intercessor but faster.

 

...actually, the thing that really elevates Marine Bikers over Inceptors as a melee unit for WS is Turbo Boost and being significantly cheaper for the same melee output on a per-model basis. There's no telling at this point whether Outriders will have either of those advantages.

Edited May 28, 2020 by TheNewman

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I know the discussion is supposed to be about assault intercessors but anyways... I think the bikers will be a lot deadlier in melee compared to Inceptors.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Black Blow Fly

[Dracos]

We can hope so. Primaris need another unit beside Aggressors who can kick sand.

[TheNewman]

I know the discussion is supposed to be about assault intercessors but anyways... I think the bikers will be a lot deadlier in melee compared to Inceptors.

You are correct sir, there is another thread for general discussion of the new units and talking about Outriders belongs there.

 

Assault Intercessors then. I'll admit I was skeptical at first. They look like the same cc output as Rievers and nobody takes those, but between the new Reserves rules and "Astares Chainswords" I can see them maybe being a third-turn threat.

[PiñaColada]

I mean, if I'm allowed to take a thunder hammer on the assault intercessor sergeant then that alone makes them more tempting than reivers IMO. Throw in the fact that the chainswords are probably AP-1 (since they did joke about AP in that whole exchange about astartes chainswords) and they're still troops (which is hopefully still meaningful in 9th) then they might be pretty interesting. 

 

They are also great looking models so even if they're almost as good as normal intercessors I'd still want a squad on the table most likely.

[TheNewman]

I'm sincerely hoping GW re-releases the CC upgrade sprue for Marines. There aren't many cost-efficient ways to get Thunder Hammers as it is, and while I've still got a bunch of Power Fists and I'm ok with them on normal Intercessor Sergeants that isn't going to cut it on Assault Intercessors.

[Aurica]

Not sure if this was mention before in the thread already,

I believe GW mention in the FAQ you could spend CPs to put units in reserve, they could come on board from the side.   They might also have mention Astarte Chainsword having different stats from typical chainsword.  With 2 wounds per model, + above factors i believe Assault Intercessors could survive long enough to close in and do some damage in melee.   Even w/o thunder hammers they could tie up a unit for a while.

[Ishagu]

Turn 3 10 of these guys could assault from the rear of the enemy lines.

[War Angel]

So the real question becomes, what’s going to be the point in having reivers?

[TheNewman]

So the real question becomes, what’s going to be the point in having reivers?

To be fair that's already a question and the answer seems to be an indifferent shrug.

[ST.Lazarus]

So the real question becomes, what’s going to be the point in having reivers?

 

Morale might play a bigger role, then I have a feeling that units that have deepstrike innate will have an easier time than those coming in thru reserve.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

So the real question becomes, what’s going to be the point in having reivers?

To be fair that's already a question and the answer seems to be an indifferent shrug.

Shrugs <0<0

[Medjugorje]

 

 

1.) They look better than Reivers.

 

2.) People have been asking for a more viable CC Primaris Option than the Reivers (We'll have to wait and see how that pans out)

 

3.) People have been specifically asking all over the internet for more non-phobos Primaris marines since the cargo-pants look ain't quite everyone's style.

 

That's about it, I reckon.

if they are troops, that alone makes them better than reivers.

 

 

also reinhard, I hope it updates all astartes chainsword across the board

 

 

If they are Troops without means to get to the enemy and the chainsword is just a regular one, then no they aren't better at all since Reivers at least get grav-chutes so they can deep strike. At that point you'd just keep taking Intercessors and Incursors for your Troops and move on. 

 

There are Impulsors and Repulsors. 

 

Then let us expect they are just Intercessors with Chainswords instead of Boltweapons.

 

1. Troop choice

2. Special weapon access which makes them far better in melee

3. rule of cool. 

4. new edition QndA revealed thats easier to arrive the enemy with infantry

5. lore. Do you believe that a former crusader, equipped with chainsword will change his fighting style after getting primarised?

6. rule of cool.

[Volt]

 

There is also the fact that they will be (presumably) a Troops choice rather than Elites, as Reivers are, which means one will be able to actually run a primarily melee Primaris army. My brother seems to be excited about them especially for his Space Wolves, considering he hated all of the existing (exclusively ranged) Primaris Troops choices. (And further, he dislikes Reivers for looking like dorky "tacticool" Call of Duty cosplayers.)

I mean, incursors exist. On the charge a 5 man squad will land a whole 0.7 less hits than a 5 man reiver unit, fill the mandatory troops slot and have turn 1 on board deployment vs deep strike.

 

Similar loo,s though - cargo shorts and dorky helms

 

The issue is that bringing an Impulsor to transport a unit of Assault Intercessors is frankly stupid. A bunch of chainswords clears out chaff well enough... but so does just the ye olde strategy of just marching a horde of intercessors with auto bolters upfield to mow everything in their path down, and bringing more melee pain to bear too thanks to thunder hammers or power fists on the Sarge. The entire point of taking transports is to get valuable troops where they need to be, or else they don't justify the cost of the transport in the first place. If you don't have power weapons or special weapons, essentially they just suck as a unit (and this goes for Reivers as well, which are also garbage for the same reason as AI). The actual useful melee unit in space marine armies is vanguard vets, (or even just assault marines), and both AI and Reivers fail to measure up in their inability to actually bring hard hitting weapons (even if assault marines kinda suck anyway, they at least have flexible movement and eviscerators in theory).

 

Unless there is some obscene rule buff hiding in the new edition or unreleased weapon options, there is still basically no reason to not just spam the crap out of intercessors with autobolters and advancing nonstop or stuffing transports with Hellblasters. This is both due to the alternatives being complete garbage, but auto bolter/bolt rifle spam and hellblasters being too good.

 

(assuming the hellblasters survive of course, in meta they need transports or else they just get erased while Eliminators are the reliable anti tank, but I'm more discussing along the line of "you have three transports and you're going to stick what actually justifies the cost of the transport inside")

 

For me though the problem is just that logically speaking, one or even two more attacks with a chainsword (even with +1 strength), just isn't as good as a shooting unit which also is very capable in melee, has a heavy hitting melee weapon with 4-5 attacks, and can advance endlessly while pouring fire. Reivers don't compare either and I wouldn't focus on them making AI irrelevant, as Reivers are irrelevant elite choices themselves. As-is, unless a dedicated assault unit has special weapons out the arse or jump packs to let it scoot rapidly across the battlefield, there is no point to ground assault in a space marine army, whatsoever. It will get shot to pieces when trying to charge distance, and with transport you're paying a premium to bully guardsmen or orks when you could just form a gunline and hose them.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Volt

[Medjugorje]

I take Impulsors just for screening my smashcaptains. How strong would that be if there are melee Intercessors with a seargent + hammer which screens my captain and do some damage too.

 

And in 9th edition should be a different mechanic to put reserves and moral - so rievers could be potentially good in the future.

 

the best answer should be:

 

why not both.

[Ishagu]

Reivers imo, should have special ammo in their guns. Something that wounds infantry more easily, and the knives should be upgraded to power weapons (Power blade, Str User, ap-2, 1 damage).

 

They are Elites after all. Increase the price if need be.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Ishagu

[War Angel]

Volt, so don’t use them. If they are just as good as something else, then it comes down to flavor and play style. Not everything GW makes should be replacing something else. In fact, that would probably be bad.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Impulsors are awesome for White Scars since they can advance and still charge. Personally I’d rather fill them with assault Intercessors than other Primaris troop choices.

[Volt]

Volt, so don’t use them. If they are just as good as something else, then it comes down to flavor and play style. Not everything GW makes should be replacing something else. In fact, that would probably be bad.

If a unit doesn't do something distinct, it shouldn't exist as it's a waste of codex space. Ground assault intercessors without power weapons is missing the point of assault units so hard that it's like GW doesn't even play the game. Or even put thought into it from a lore perspective.