So, what's the point of assault Intercessors?

[jaxom]

 

 

I suspect it’s a case of requiring a multipart kit to be compatible with the chapter upgrade dories where those weapon options can be found.

...unless they go ahead and release a chapter-independent kit with all of the weapons options on one sprue. There should be plenty of room if they get rid of the shoulder pads, heads and sparkly bits. Presumably if they have that in mind, then the arms will fit the torso of the multi-part AI sergeant as well as they fit the regular Intercessor sergeant.

 

(And hopefully said kit will come with a Plasma Pistol that's attached to an actual organic arm instead of the two augmetics we've gotten as readily-available Primaris bits so far).

That’d be nice, but would still rely on a multipart Assault Intercessor kit existing. Weapon upgrade bits cannot be easily added to ETB models.

[The Lost Son]

Personally I think (rules variations aside) from a design stand point they are the same as reivers and that's the point. For years people have been making spec ops marines and with the redesign opportunity given with the primaris range that's where Phobos came from with tacticus for the old guard hence it's slower release, they knew there would be objections and fears of our models being replaced. Look at the easy build range around dark imperium a taster of different ideas which led into a stealthy wave because it was different now we're getting what we are used to marines being marines Edited July 15, 2020 by The Lost Son

[Mandragola]

What's funny is that they're more expensive than the supposedly elite Reivers. They have a weapon with ap-1, which straightforwardly beats the Reivers' silly tricks.

 

As such, there might actually be a point in taking assault intercessors, though there never has been one for Reivers.

 

I don't know if there will be a full kit for assault intercessors or if they'll get options for their Sergeans if there is one. One thing is obviously missing from them though: jump packs. I guess a full kit might provide those, and that would be game changing.

 

The Primaris line suffers from a rule preventing any kit bashing - not even obvious things like giving a plasma pistol arm to an intercessor Sergeant. So until now, the only person who was allowed a plasma pistol was someone who was almost guaranteed to never use it. This isn't driven by any logic in the game or the fluff, but by the belief that we don't like kit bashing. 

[Karhedron]

I don't know if there will be a full kit for assault intercessors or if they'll get options for their Sergeans if there is one. One thing is obviously missing from them though: jump packs. I guess a full kit might provide those, and that would be game changing.

I can't imagine Assault Intercessors getting JPs, at least not while they remain a Troop unit. Jump Packs would put them squarely in FA territory.

 

Initially GW seemed to try and avoid direct Primaris replacements for Firstborn units. Instead the new units tried to find new niches for themselves. But with units like Outriders being a clear 1:1 successor to Bikers, it is becoming harder not to notice the lack of key units like fast melee units or long-ranged fire-support units.

[Mandragola]

Yeah, agreed. The lack of a devastator squad equivalent is weird. It's probably a hard kit to produce, since you need to include all sorts of different guns, but they've recently done that for havocs and retributors.

 

Jump packs are a different thing because you could make a box of guys who all had them. I guess in theory it could even be a dual kit with suppressors.

 

It seems to me like there's a different approach taken to designing Primaris stuff, compared to Firstborn. Firstborn units were designed based on fluff primarily, so they tended to be analogues of real-world stuff or things they imagined would be useful in a sci-fi setting.

 

So units like assault squads (and especially the Vanguard) get to tool up with melee weapons, storm shields, melta bombs and stuff. Tactical squads are intended to be adaptable, so they bring a heavy weapon, special weapon and so on. Units bring tools that would be useful to do their jobs.

 

But for Primaris, the only criteria seems to be the models. So we get models with bolt guns, models with plasma guns, and so on. They give options for the whole unit, through minor changes like a different magazine, head or backpack accessory, rather than specialists with entirely different equipment. The extra space on the sprue is used to make everyone slightly different, rather than two or three guys very different. A Box with an assortment of different heavy weapons would be quite a break from this approach, I think.

 

Jump packs would be difficult because the Primaris ones are more than just a thing on a guy's back. There are bits on the legs too, and cables here and there. So if they did produce a jump pack assault squad they probably couldn't make the models in it compatible with a non-jumping squad. They'd have to be some new thing, not intercessors, and so they'd almost certainly have their own unit entry and not be troops.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

 

I suspect it’s a case of requiring a multipart kit to be compatible with the chapter upgrade dories where those weapon options can be found.

...unless they go ahead and release a chapter-independent kit with all of the weapons options on one sprue. There should be plenty of room if they get rid of the shoulder pads, heads and sparkly bits. Presumably if they have that in mind, then the arms will fit the torso of the multi-part AI sergeant as well as they fit the regular Intercessor sergeant.

 

(And hopefully said kit will come with a Plasma Pistol that's attached to an actual organic arm instead of the two augmetics we've gotten as readily-available Primaris bits so far).

That’d be nice, but would still rely on a multipart Assault Intercessor kit existing. Weapon upgrade bits cannot be easily added to ETB models.

 

 

I know. Thus why I said "multi-part AI Sergeant."

[FinalCookie]

 

I don't know if there will be a full kit for assault intercessors or if they'll get options for their Sergeans if there is one. One thing is obviously missing from them though: jump packs. I guess a full kit might provide those, and that would be game changing.

I can't imagine Assault Intercessors getting JPs, at least not while they remain a Troop unit. Jump Packs would put them squarely in FA territory.

 

Initially GW seemed to try and avoid direct Primaris replacements for Firstborn units. Instead the new units tried to find new niches for themselves. But with units like Outriders being a clear 1:1 successor to Bikers, it is becoming harder not to notice the lack of key units like fast melee units or long-ranged fire-support units.

 

 

I don't think it's an accident that Assault Intercessors come without jump packs. And while I think it's pretty likely that we will eventually see some sort of fast attack close assault unit, they'll probably be closer to vanguard vets than an assault squad. Something a little more elite, with options to hunt characters or heavier squads. They effectively split the assault squad into two units, Inceptors and Assault Intercessors, and I don't see them coming up with a unit that bridges that divide again. They both clear GEQ and MEQ reasonably well, but do it in slightly different ways.

 

It's pretty much what they've done across the board. Devastator squads are now spread across 4 or 5 datasheets, with Hellblasters, Aggressors, Suppressors, Inceptors, and Eradicators specializing in all the ways that a devastator squad could be tooled. Who knows if it will continue though, as there have been some notable exceptions. Outriders, for example, are just straight up better bikers.

[Dracos]

Assault Inceptors .... just saying ;)

[War Angel]

Assault Inceptors .... just saying ;)

With storm shield and power sword

[jaxom]

 

Assault Inceptors .... just saying

With storm shield and power sword

 

 

Gravity hammers - +1 Str AP-3 D1, D1d3 against targets with 3+ save or better.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Power swords are garbage just saying .

[War Angel]

Power swords are garbage just saying .

Good against MEQ, thunder hammers would be better but.... I’d rather ask small and be happy if they go further.

 

Power weapons. Then we can have maxes or axes.

[TheNewman]

 

 

Can chappie recite a litany before disembarkation ?

Not unless they change it in 9e.

Which they did not.

 

Personally I'm more concerned with what to do about the inevitable upgrade when GW decides Assault Intercessors can put a real melee weapon on the Sergeants. I'm thinking I'm going to arm the two in Indominus with my left-over Evicerators, that's an identical profile to a Power Fist (for reasons) so I can easily claim it, and still call them ordinary Chainswords in the meantime since they're not that much bigger than a normal CS.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

Power swords are garbage just saying .

Good against MEQ, thunder hammers would be better but.... I’d rather ask small and be happy if they go further.

Power weapons. Then we can have maxes or axes.

War Angel I only take multi damage melee weapons that wound on at least 5+ at the very least. Power swords just don’t cut it versus things like Knights. (Pro tip)

[Gederas]

Power swords are garbage just saying .

Good against MEQ, thunder hammers would be better but.... I’d rather ask small and be happy if they go further.

Power weapons. Then we can have maxes or axes.

War Angel I only take multi damage melee weapons that wound on at least 5+ at the very least. Power swords just don’t cut it versus things like Knights. (Pro tip)

The Bladeguard, Captain and LT's power swords are S+1 AP-3 D2 (or S+2, can't remember exactly, but I was looking over my FLGS' demo Indomitus box's rulebook and Edge of Silence booklet today).

 

Also: Why the ever-loving are you trying to use a Power Sword against a Knight? Yeah, no DUH they're useless against Knights. But you're not supposed to use them against Knights.

 

What's next, Bolt Rifles are useless for the same reason?

Edited July 16, 2020 by Gederas

[Mandragola]

I agree about power swords. It’s not just knights that they’re useless against - they also fail pretty badly against marines. It just takes too long to cut through them.

 

Possibly the one auto-include model* in indomitus for me is the LT. Finally getting one with a meaningful melee weapon and an invulnerable save is a radical change for a character who’s only ever been a walking aura up to now.

 

*Ok it’s going to be hard not to bring Eradicators, and Outriders look useful.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Master-crafted power swords getting S: User+1 is enough to make them worth it to me. Regular power swords are still something I pass on though.

 

If the Assault Intercessor sergeant gets the ability to take a MC power sword (and if the regular Intercessor sergeant doesn't), that's probably enough for them to earn a role in a list or two of mine (not to mention being a cool build).

[Lemondish]

 

I don't know if there will be a full kit for assault intercessors or if they'll get options for their Sergeans if there is one. One thing is obviously missing from them though: jump packs. I guess a full kit might provide those, and that would be game changing.

I can't imagine Assault Intercessors getting JPs, at least not while they remain a Troop unit. Jump Packs would put them squarely in FA territory.

 

Initially GW seemed to try and avoid direct Primaris replacements for Firstborn units. Instead the new units tried to find new niches for themselves. But with units like Outriders being a clear 1:1 successor to Bikers, it is becoming harder not to notice the lack of key units like fast melee units or long-ranged fire-support units.

I wouldn't say outriders are a perfect 1:1 to bikes. What makes bikes different from Outriders, just like what makes all Firstborn different, is the ability to customize. In some cases, we don't care - as in tactical Marines. But for bikes, we should. A Sarge with THammer and an attack bike alongside extra bodies as ablative wounds really makes that unit different from Outriders. It can basically bully more than just light infantry at that point. Edited July 16, 2020 by Lemondish

[TheNewman]

 

 

 

Power swords are garbage just saying .

Good against MEQ, thunder hammers would be better but.... I’d rather ask small and be happy if they go further.

Power weapons. Then we can have maxes or axes.

War Angel I only take multi damage melee weapons that wound on at least 5+ at the very least. Power swords just don’t cut it versus things like Knights. (Pro tip)

The Bladeguard, Captain and LT's power swords are S+1 AP-3 D2 (or S+2, can't remember exactly, but I was looking over my FLGS' demo Indomitus box's rulebook and Edge of Silence booklet today).

 

Also: Why the ever-loving are you trying to use a Power Sword against a Knight? Yeah, no DUH they're useless against Knights. But you're not supposed to use them against Knights.

 

What's next, Bolt Rifles are useless for the same reason?

Because you brought a TAC list and ran into a Knight Lance, and your Intercessor Serg with the Power Sword has a lousy chance of hurting a Knight but everything that had a better chance of hurting a Knight was dead by the end of turn two.

 

"Fun" story, we had a game early-ish in 8th where one guy brought a Castellan and a couple of Armigers down for giggles, and challenged a Nid and DE player to team up so they'd have a 1000 point handicap because he knew nobody would agree to the game any other way. The Nids and DE were tabled by turn 4.

Edited July 16, 2020 by TheNewman

[Hymnblade]

Power swords (and axes, mauls, and lightning claws) really have been left in the dust by 8e rules. Damage 1 is terrible.

 

With guns, lower strength and lower damage tends to be compensated by increased rate of fire. With melee weapons, you get the same number of attacks regardless, so it doesn't work for some weapons to be much more damaging than others if they're supposed to be reasonable alternatives to each other.

 

That said, Bladeguard and the Indomitus captain/Lt seem to say that GW noticed the problem. Those S5 D2 power swords really can do some work.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I haven’t taken any power swords ever unless it was mandatory like terminator sergeant.

[Panzer]

 

 

I don't know if there will be a full kit for assault intercessors or if they'll get options for their Sergeans if there is one. One thing is obviously missing from them though: jump packs. I guess a full kit might provide those, and that would be game changing.

I can't imagine Assault Intercessors getting JPs, at least not while they remain a Troop unit. Jump Packs would put them squarely in FA territory.

 

Initially GW seemed to try and avoid direct Primaris replacements for Firstborn units. Instead the new units tried to find new niches for themselves. But with units like Outriders being a clear 1:1 successor to Bikers, it is becoming harder not to notice the lack of key units like fast melee units or long-ranged fire-support units.

I wouldn't say outriders are a perfect 1:1 to bikes. What makes bikes different from Outriders, just like what makes all Firstborn different, is the ability to customize. In some cases, we don't care - as in tactical Marines. But for bikes, we should. A Sarge with THammer and an attack bike alongside extra bodies as ablative wounds really makes that unit different from Outriders. It can basically bully more than just light infantry at that point.

 

 

That depends entirely on the person though, no? Some do care about customization on Tacticals as well. I don't care about customization on Bikes because I always kept them cheap anyway. I'm perfectly fine with all of them having AP-1 chainswords instead of one of them having a Thunderhammer or having some plasma or whatever in the unit.

[Lemondish]

 

 

 

 

I don't know if there will be a full kit for assault intercessors or if they'll get options for their Sergeans if there is one. One thing is obviously missing from them though: jump packs. I guess a full kit might provide those, and that would be game changing.

I can't imagine Assault Intercessors getting JPs, at least not while they remain a Troop unit. Jump Packs would put them squarely in FA territory.

 

Initially GW seemed to try and avoid direct Primaris replacements for Firstborn units. Instead the new units tried to find new niches for themselves. But with units like Outriders being a clear 1:1 successor to Bikers, it is becoming harder not to notice the lack of key units like fast melee units or long-ranged fire-support units.

I wouldn't say outriders are a perfect 1:1 to bikes. What makes bikes different from Outriders, just like what makes all Firstborn different, is the ability to customize. In some cases, we don't care - as in tactical Marines. But for bikes, we should. A Sarge with THammer and an attack bike alongside extra bodies as ablative wounds really makes that unit different from Outriders. It can basically bully more than just light infantry at that point.

That depends entirely on the person though, no? Some do care about customization on Tacticals as well. I don't care about customization on Bikes because I always kept them cheap anyway. I'm perfectly fine with all of them having AP-1 chainswords instead of one of them having a Thunderhammer or having some plasma or whatever in the unit.

I suppose if somebody wants to ignore all the things that don't make them perfect 1:1 replacements then I suppose they would look like a perfect 1:1 replacement. But nobody here would really do that given how dishonest and silly it is. We should at least agree that it isn't accurate to call them a full 1:1 replacement of a unit without applying additional context to the statement.

[Prot]

I hope this doesn't come off wrong, but my findings so far (and it's still early) in my games is the Assault Intercessor can be a bit of a trap.

 

I haven't used them at all with Ultra test games, but with my White Scars where they can at least get up to 2D a wound.

 

Why I say 'trap' is they are decent at what they do. And board control is a strong theme to center such a list around. And I know there will be games and match ups that these guys do astonishing things (I've seen it first hand), but the trap part is some armies just do CC MUCH better overall. So you are somewhat investing in a unit that has to be more... reserved than you'd ultimately like.

 

So far, my suggestion would be no more than a squad for most 'typical' marine armies. Over indulging is the concern here, as 'better bully' in the center of the table is much better to shoot at in most cases (I'm thinking of my Allarus builds which are incredibly hard to shift in CC.)

 

While I don't think there's anything counter productive with dabbling in the Assault Intercessors, I think they will be a better overall option in a multipart kit. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Prot

[Mandragola]

I think outriders are pretty different to bikes. They're far more of an assault unit than the old bikes, which were all about the special weapons - and maybe whatever the Sergeant had. I don't think they do very similar things now. Outriders are about throwing out lots of attacks, which was never the point of bikes before.

 

I'm considering an intercessor spam list for my Fists. Staying as much as possible within the bubbles from Pedro, a Lieutenant and a upgraded apothecary for FNP. In that context I think there's room for at least a squad of assault intercessors. I'll probably want guns on most guys but having a squad I can just advance up field and do actions with in early turns sounds good. There will definitely be times when all those attacks come in handy.