9th Ed Speculation Thread

[MegaVolt87]

I think DG could punch up in 9th if they were not as over pointed as they are. If they were undercosted like other factions, they would actually be pretty good IMO. 

[Panzer]

 

I think EC will do pretty well out of the CSM this edition. Superior mid-range abilities with Noise Marines (as troops), blast masters are more powerful with Blast rule, Legion trait means your oponent attacking first is negated, Endless Cacophony, Excess of Violence when melee hits, good charging capabilities, throw in some Venomcrawlers for the hybrid melee/shooter. Not really my thing, but seems somewhat solid.

 

Edit: of course, that means getting resin sonic weapons.

 

We're expecting an EC codex/supplement release soon, which presumably will bring a new Noise Marine kit/upgrade sprue. Latest rumors i've seen is christmas, but we've been having rumors of it for all of 8th too, so who really knows.

 

 

We've been expecting an EC codex/supplement release soon for like two years now.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Panzer

[Subtle Discord]

After seeing Death Guard Plague Marines and Thousand Sons Rubrics (Who came flippin' first no less, really, who wanted Rubrics first?!?) I was certain Noise Marines would show up sooner, even before the revamp of the standard Chaos Marines. It really is only a matter of time now that fabulous Fabius is on the scene, I suspect. Yeah, yeah, I know he's no longer affiliated, but I don't know it just seems like they're setting the stage. Then again, Khârn is a thing, so maybe they toss a curve-ball and 'Zerkers finally get some attention from out of nowhere. Both are actually pieces to the Chaos puzzle that, if updated well, could really breath some new vigor into the faction. With so many of the other parts of the line updated already, and a new edition for a new round of codexs that will have model releases attached, how long can it really be? We're just competing for the slot with all the other non-imperial factions that have to wait their turn to have in the release cycle. Imperial gets the bulk and everyone else need to fit in between; but since we share so much DNA with Marines so many of their new offerings seem a bit closer to us, and yet still out of reach.

[Lord_Starscream]

After seeing Death Guard Plague Marines and Thousand Sons Rubrics (Who came flippin' first no less, really, who wanted Rubrics first?!?) I was certain Noise Marines would show up sooner, even before the revamp of the standard Chaos Marines. It really is only a matter of time now that fabulous Fabius is on the scene, I suspect. Yeah, yeah, I know he's no longer affiliated, but I don't know it just seems like they're setting the stage. Then again, Khârn is a thing, so maybe they toss a curve-ball and 'Zerkers finally get some attention from out of nowhere. Both are actually pieces to the Chaos puzzle that, if updated well, could really breath some new vigor into the faction. With so many of the other parts of the line updated already, and a new edition for a new round of codexs that will have model releases attached, how long can it really be? We're just competing for the slot with all the other non-imperial factions that have to wait their turn to have in the release cycle. Imperial gets the bulk and everyone else need to fit in between; but since we share so much DNA with Marines so many of their new offerings seem a bit closer to us, and yet still out of reach.

 

I'm honestly skeptical that Berserkers or Noise Marines are going to make much of a difference in terms of the fate of Chaos Space Marines, though of course, I could be wrong.

[Subtle Discord]

Oh, I feel you, but 'Zerkers and Noise Marines are actually some of the stronger PA elements of the faction so with the right treatment they wouldn't hurt the whole. A huge part of 40k today (forever?) is the gimmick-of-the-month/season/edition and if your faction has the the tools in the box to take advantage. Should GW toss us the right gimmick or two our way it could help Chaos find a new anchor point; sadly it would be something of a one or two trick pony as the starting point, but how different is that for Chaos and others for quite some time now? I'm of no illusions that it's long odds. I'm still curious to see what the first proper round of new edition books look like to use as a gauge for how much I want to salt my expectations.

[Relic]

Winner...my havoc launchers on Rhinos since forever because I could not bring myself to take them off (rule of cool). If they remain about the same points with the new blast rules and tanks ignoring penalty for movement they are pretty decent!

[Marshal Loss]

 

 

I think EC will do pretty well out of the CSM this edition. Superior mid-range abilities with Noise Marines (as troops), blast masters are more powerful with Blast rule, Legion trait means your oponent attacking first is negated, Endless Cacophony, Excess of Violence when melee hits, good charging capabilities, throw in some Venomcrawlers for the hybrid melee/shooter. Not really my thing, but seems somewhat solid.

 

Edit: of course, that means getting resin sonic weapons.

 

We're expecting an EC codex/supplement release soon, which presumably will bring a new Noise Marine kit/upgrade sprue. Latest rumors i've seen is christmas, but we've been having rumors of it for all of 8th too, so who really knows.

 

 

We've been expecting an EC codex/supplement release soon for like two years now.

 

 

It's actually already 3.5 years since Fulgrim first started making appearances in mainstream GW studio publications. :P To put it into perspective, Mortarion made his first teaser appearance less than 4 months before Fulgrim's.

 

[Panzer]

 

 

 

I think EC will do pretty well out of the CSM this edition. Superior mid-range abilities with Noise Marines (as troops), blast masters are more powerful with Blast rule, Legion trait means your oponent attacking first is negated, Endless Cacophony, Excess of Violence when melee hits, good charging capabilities, throw in some Venomcrawlers for the hybrid melee/shooter. Not really my thing, but seems somewhat solid.

 

Edit: of course, that means getting resin sonic weapons.

 

We're expecting an EC codex/supplement release soon, which presumably will bring a new Noise Marine kit/upgrade sprue. Latest rumors i've seen is christmas, but we've been having rumors of it for all of 8th too, so who really knows.

 

 

We've been expecting an EC codex/supplement release soon for like two years now.

 

 

It's actually already 3.5 years since Fulgrim first started making appearances in mainstream GW studio publications. To put it into perspective, Mortarion made his first teaser appearance less than 4 months before Fulgrim's.

 

 

 

Yeah but I don't think anybody was expecting an EC release "soon" when we were still in the middle of the DG release. :P

[Marshal Loss]

 

 

 

 

I think EC will do pretty well out of the CSM this edition. Superior mid-range abilities with Noise Marines (as troops), blast masters are more powerful with Blast rule, Legion trait means your oponent attacking first is negated, Endless Cacophony, Excess of Violence when melee hits, good charging capabilities, throw in some Venomcrawlers for the hybrid melee/shooter. Not really my thing, but seems somewhat solid.

 

Edit: of course, that means getting resin sonic weapons.

 

We're expecting an EC codex/supplement release soon, which presumably will bring a new Noise Marine kit/upgrade sprue. Latest rumors i've seen is christmas, but we've been having rumors of it for all of 8th too, so who really knows.

 

 

We've been expecting an EC codex/supplement release soon for like two years now.

 

 

It's actually already 3.5 years since Fulgrim first started making appearances in mainstream GW studio publications. To put it into perspective, Mortarion made his first teaser appearance less than 4 months before Fulgrim's.

 

 

 

Yeah but I don't think anybody was expecting an EC release "soon" when we were still in the middle of the DG release.

 

To be honest I think a lot of people actually did. It's easy to understand why - we had nothing for decades and then Thousand Sons and DG got full releases in less than 12 months. Reasonable enough for people to expect EC to follow soon afterwards. Unfortunately GW seem intent on making the best legion wait the longest :P

[Prot]

I have really surprised myself in the amount of struggle I've had with my Chaos overall in 9th so far.

 

The new rules changes have had this overall, unforeseen effect on assault, and character driven lists. Honestly I find the new Coherency rule so frustrating, I don't think I'll play Possessed as a large squad again. (If I've been playing it right.)

 

Chaos has always been top heavy. It's how Chaos tries to mitigate mediocre units. Getting that to function now is extremely difficult without penalizing your CP's like crazy.

 

Psychics are harder. It's harder to keep characters alive, and harder to cast. A command reroll forces all dice to be rerolled.

 

On Berzerkers, I've heard a few people mention them, but I don't know. The way GW have forced you to make every charge distance, or you fail all, has made me think this is going to be hard to get mileage out of.

 

So far I've decided to put my Black Legion away while I do more testing. I am considering my Thousand Sons because I sold my DG army. I do think DG are going to be the winners here.

 

Mid board control, and being survivable while doing so is pretty huge with the new missions/secondaries. 

 

Unit wise, there's a few minor stand outs: things with Blast, including Plasma Helbrutes, Defilers, even Vindicators might see some play. The dual plus to this is they keep characters untargetable. My Black Legion helbrute with MM is finally seeing playtime. He's been a lot more fun, keeping opponents from targetting Abaddon, while lumbering up even getting off shots and hits! (He took 6 wounds off a Stormsurge last game, which never happened in 8th!)

 

The DP is still big. With the strangle hold on characters, the DP still does a few things very well. Fly, psyker, and punchy. 

 

For me a lot of lists I liked with Black Legion are dead now. That's the bad news. My Triple Disco Lord list is absolutely finished. My Possessed as mentioned are finished. My experimental Bile list is also dead.

 

The one shining light I've enjoyed for sure is the Terminators. Always thematic, but hardly a 'strong' choice in the past. The changes to Plasma, and the fact they literally act as a better bodyguard to Abaddon has been great. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Prot

[Relic]

Yet to play 9th - but is less troops requirements a boon? To my mind I either went bare bones min cultist squads to fill detachments for CP or i'd run one or two max squads of cultists with something to make them fearless. You can now take a single patrol/Battallion and get your CP's. By sounds of it a supreme command detachment can get you an extra HQ on top of these if warlord. 

 

So as an iron warrior player I am thinking something along the lines of two max cultist squads with fearless warlord and one min CSM squad to hold backfield. Works out CP wise for me better then taking them as min squads in multiple battalions. 

 

Less support characters is problematic. Can't see myself going above 4 now without incurring CP costs. 

[Kain Mor]

Yet to play 9th - but is less troops requirements a boon? To my mind I either went bare bones min cultist squads to fill detachments for CP or i'd run one or two max squads of cultists with something to make them fearless. You can now take a single patrol/Battallion and get your CP's. By sounds of it a supreme command detachment can get you an extra HQ on top of these if warlord.

 

So as an iron warrior player I am thinking something along the lines of two max cultist squads with fearless warlord and one min CSM squad to hold backfield. Works out CP wise for me better then taking them as min squads in multiple battalions.

 

Less support characters is problematic. Can't see myself going above 4 now without incurring CP costs.

 

Supreme command detachment was totally reworked. You can’t just take 3 HQ in a detachment now.

[Doom Herald]

Red Corsairs could be interesting in a gimmicky way. Extra CP, extra relic (if I'm not mistaken), advance and charge, they already had one of the better relic weapons. It would be interesting to see them make good use of those extra CP to add still more relics or specialist detachments and the accompanying rules, and if I'm not mistaken they had something like Tide of Traitors for the CSM unit.

 

On a small note, I feel like 9th is a small improvement for Crimson Slaughter that I was playing in 7th and trying to get to work in 8th. They still aren't on the same level as the other renegades, but it's an improvement for them. Becoming immune to morale will matter more to the smaller units and their strat will probably affect more units given the smaller board size.

 

Edit: it's also a soft buff for Thunderhammers and powerfists. Since -1 is the max penalty to hit, they can hit things already at -1 with the same accuracy as other weapons.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Doom Herald

[Relic]

 

Yet to play 9th - but is less troops requirements a boon? To my mind I either went bare bones min cultist squads to fill detachments for CP or i'd run one or two max squads of cultists with something to make them fearless. You can now take a single patrol/Battallion and get your CP's. By sounds of it a supreme command detachment can get you an extra HQ on top of these if warlord.

 

So as an iron warrior player I am thinking something along the lines of two max cultist squads with fearless warlord and one min CSM squad to hold backfield. Works out CP wise for me better then taking them as min squads in multiple battalions.

 

Less support characters is problematic. Can't see myself going above 4 now without incurring CP costs.

 

Supreme command detachment was totally reworked. You can’t just take 3 HQ in a detachment now.

 

 

I think tabletop titans let it out of the bag that you can take one normal HQ in this detachment as your warlord and get a free patrol/battalion. So you can take one extra HQ this way. 

[BrainFireBob]

Part of why I started this thread is GW's habit of edition overcorrection. Unit nerfs tend to be mostly predictable, but buffs can be surprising- see the explosion of plasma cannons in 3.5 after the assault cannon nerf.

 

They always shift deliberately what one wants to buy, but surprise winners can pop up. Heck, this could be the Mutilator/Spawn edition once the dust settles.

[Kain Mor]

The supreme command detachment has been shown by Warcomm, its for Primarchs and “supreme commanders” only, so their leak isn’t even accurate.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Prot, you mentioned psychic powers being harder to get off.  How so?  Is it just the change to Command Reroll strat?  I mean, there's always the Noctilith Crown.  It has the VEHICLE keyword, so it can be used to prevent shots at a character and it gives your psykers rerolls if they fail to cast.  Plus with the terrain changes I would hope it's easier to hide, though with its size that might not be an option.

 

And yes, I'm aware that if it explodes it is likely to kill your sorcerer.  Risk vs reward.

[Kain Mor]

Prot, you mentioned psychic powers being harder to get off. How so? Is it just the change to Command Reroll strat? I mean, there's always the Noctilith Crown. It has the VEHICLE keyword, so it can be used to prevent shots at a character and it gives your psykers rerolls if they fail to cast. Plus with the terrain changes I would hope it's easier to hide, though with its size that might not be an option.

 

And yes, I'm aware that if it explodes it is likely to kill your sorcerer. Risk vs reward.

What’s that you say? You want your characters and army to function with a basic level of utility?

Just take this overpriced targetable terrain piece with a TINY bubble! Oh by the way it also might nuke you when it dies and also you can’t re-roll explosions but I’m sure it’ll be fine.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Prot, you mentioned psychic powers being harder to get off.  How so?  Is it just the change to Command Reroll strat?  I mean, there's always the Noctilith Crown.  It has the VEHICLE keyword, so it can be used to prevent shots at a character and it gives your psykers rerolls if they fail to cast.  Plus with the terrain changes I would hope it's easier to hide, though with its size that might not be an option.

 

And yes, I'm aware that if it explodes it is likely to kill your sorcerer.  Risk vs reward.

 

The big change is that you can no longer do psychic powers in any order. You have to do all the powers from one psyker before you do another.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

Prot, you mentioned psychic powers being harder to get off. How so? Is it just the change to Command Reroll strat? I mean, there's always the Noctilith Crown. It has the VEHICLE keyword, so it can be used to prevent shots at a character and it gives your psykers rerolls if they fail to cast. Plus with the terrain changes I would hope it's easier to hide, though with its size that might not be an option.

 

And yes, I'm aware that if it explodes it is likely to kill your sorcerer. Risk vs reward.

What’s that you say? You want your characters and army to function with a basic level of utility?

Just take this overpriced targetable terrain piece with a TINY bubble! Oh by the way it also might nuke you when it dies and also you can’t re-roll explosions but I’m sure it’ll be fine.

Basic utility? Does a sorcerer fill a support function? Yes. Are his psychic power options some of the most useful utility powers in the game? Yes. Basic level of utility achieved!

 

 

The psyker aura of the Crown is 24" from the model. I measured it out from the pylons and platform to a total of 8.5"x3.5" which becomes 32.5"x27.5" or a total area of 893.75"^2. Considering the total area of a new "standard board" is 2,640"^2...that psyker aura -- which i might add not only improves your psykers but also works to a detriment for your opponent's psykers -- covers about 30% of the table. That's huge...not tiny.

 

Meanwhile the Invul save aura begins at 6" and expands until it's 12". Conversely, the detonation range is only d6", which means turn 2 it's possible to be benefitting from both the Crown's auras *without having a single friendly unit in detonation range.*

 

As for being overpriced, I don't have CA in front of me but I think it's about 80 points. That's cheaper than a Dark Apostle, and the Invul save aura of the Crown is 1. Bigger than the Apostle's 2. Always on 3. Can't fail a check to activate it.

 

It's not for everyone, I'll admit. It's not the greatest weapon in our arsenal by any stretch. But I think it has potential to improve our psychic defense, our psychic utility, and the durability of our gunline units. At the very least, i'm going to test it in my Alpha Legion armies. Maybe you're right, maybe I'll be underwhelmed. If that happens, at least I'll have a cool terrain piece. If it doesn't though, I'll be sure to laugh about it.

[Irate Khornate]

Iron, my crown was usually the first part of my army to get vaporized off the board while I brought it. Sure I saved other units from getting shot, but it still feels bad and it exploded more than once.

 

HQ dependent armies took a massive blow, soup got kicked in the shin (despite how fluffy CSM and CD working together are), and msu squads numbering above 5 got nipped as well.

 

Biggest looser for me is Thousand Sons as their HQs made the army.

[Coolbeans]

I think a definite loser of 9th will be alpha legion, because of the cap at -1 to being hit. They had lots of ways to stack that and somewhat stay competitive with other factions but that's gone in 9th.

 

Do alpha legion players think you will get the same legion trait as raven guard, and have it apply to everything? I've always wanted to do a small band of alpha legion. I saw someone convert a meirce miniature that was a 3 headed hydra into a Daemon Prince and it looked awesome.

[Relic]

-1 to hit is still the best legion trait I reckon (of a bad bunch). CSM not getting to stack more then -1 to hits and more then +1 to hit/wound is a blow for the faction in general though. 

 

Likely the CSM codex will need a 9th redo at some stage as the book is showing a bit of age despite the previous updates. Faith and Fury helped a lot so we have that until then at least. 

 

From looking at the 9th eternal war missions -  sitting in the middle of the board with good mid range shooting and a counter assault unit looks like a winning formula. The five turn game may help as Chaos shines early on and then collapses in on itself late game without CP. 

[Are Verlo]

Imo we are still missing the most important factor in determining losers/winners in 9th ed.

 

Before we have the point values this is all speculation. Speculation can be great fun, but let us not get carried away and predict doom and glooom before point values are available.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Does anyone know when the new FW books will be coming out? Considering how much we rely on Contemptors, leviathans, decimators ect any changes to them could also be a factor.
One thing with points is I really hope stuff we share with loyalists is cheaper then theirs for the simple fact of Doctrines.