9th Ed Speculation Thread

[40kChrista]

LMAO at Mutilators still being 35 for 3... all hail the Mutilator meta!!    /jk

 

Thanks tech for pointing out the obvious.

Edited July 13, 2020 by 40kChris

[Panzer]

 

I don't get all the negativity. Points have been going up for basically everyone. From what I've seen CSM got treated neither better nor worse than most. Pretty much average.

I guess we’ll see once the codex comes out. Cultists being more expensive than guardsmen seems like a fair enough complaint.

Yeah but I'd rather say it's Guardsmen being the exception there. Kroot, Gaunts etc. cost 6ppm as well.

[Doom Herald]

Dual Malefic talons are up 5 points for DP as well, they really went hard on them. Jump Lords got hit pretty hard too, worse than the other infantry characters. It also looks that force weapons are 0 points now, so Sorcerers really didn't do too bad.

 

Infantry heavy weapons are looking in good shape though. I was thinking of doing autocannons for my CSM but a 15 point lascannon looks pretty attractive. Of course, if there will be more infantry being used, the autocannon is still the better choice.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Doom Herald

[techsoldaten]

LMAO at Mutilators still being 35 for 3... all hail the Mutilator meta!!    /jk

That's the cost per model, not the cost for 3.

 

Dual Malefic talons are up 5 points for DP as well, they really went hard on them. Jump Lords got hit pretty hard too, worse than the other infantry characters. It also looks that force weapons are 0 points now, so Sorcerers really didn't do too bad.

 

Infantry heavy weapons are looking in good shape though. I was thinking of doing autocannons for my CSM but a 15 point lascannon looks pretty attractive. Of course, if there will be more infantry being used, the autocannon is still the better choice.

Everything with a jump pack is more expensive than it's equivalent.

 

Raptors are 18ppm, CSM are 14ppm.

 

I think that reflects the cost of increased mobility. Likewise, I think charge rules don't favor basic melee infantry. There's a mismatch.

 

I am eager to fling raptors an extra 9” up the board with World Eaters using the pregame strat, I think if I understand correctly the new command phase preserves that option, unless they change the wording on the strat itself.

This might be a very powerful tactic, with the new table sizes.

 

The new rules on multicharge makes me think they are trying to tamp down the potential for 'big' first turn charges.Felt like these guys are still too expensive.

 

Let's just all remember that it will have to be viewed with the other armies in mind as well, and the new rules. I dare to say we won't know how this impacts us until after a few games of 9th.

14ppm for CSM versus 20ppm for Intercessors tells you a lot.

 

 

Wait, a LR went down 100p? That can't be right?

With guns, it's like 275. Have not done the math for how it compares with a Repulsor, but it seems overcosted.

 

[40kChrista]

Ah... you're right tech!

 

I just haven't looked the entry for so long I didn't realize, thanks!

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I'm assuming that there are more changes to see. Do we know what's in the rest of the CA book yet? This is just the points changes.

Some points of interest:

 

• Tacticals went up to 15, CSM are 14. This probably means we aren't getting Doctrine equivalent rules. Which sucks, because an extra AP and super doctrine bonus are worth WAY more than 1 point. Also chosen now cost the same as Tacticals.
• Cultists are 6pts. Guardsmen are 5. And cultists don't get traits. Ooof.
• Berzerkers, plague marines, and rubrics went up 2 pts. Noise marines went up 3. And sonic blasters went from 4 to 5. So noise marines with blasters now cost 21pts. That's pretty prohibitive. But why did sonic blasters go up? I'd assume its because they think they are worth more now that there will be so much terrain on the board. And that might be the case. Blast master down 2pts means there may be a role for MSU squads with a BM if you're EC.
• Missile Launchers came down 5pts for infantry, and frag missiles have blast. This means the missile launcher is actually worth using now. In the past, it lost to other options because Frag missiles were really bad.
• All power weapons are now 5pts. Power axe was already the most efficient option overall, and now it is by even more. But single lightning claw might have a use now.
• Power fist went up to 10pts, and chainfist went down to 10pts. So no reason not to run all chainfists on your terminators now (unless you don't need ap-4 and really want the chance at a 3dmg hit)
• Terminators stayed at 23pts, which actually means they improved by 3-4pts, as most things in their pts range went up by that much. But combi-bolters went from 2-3. Terminators were only a few pts away from being worthwhile before. Now they are worth a serious look. Combi plasma is also down a point. So chainaxe+combi plasma is now 34pts, which is actually very respectable.
• Terminator characters also made out very well. Terminator lord didn't change, and sorc went up 5 from the force weapons being rolled in. Terminator is now 10pts cheaper than Jump Pack in both cases.
• Defiler's points didn't change. Twin heavy bolter and flamer went up, reaper ac is the same, and havoc is down a point to 5. Scourge is also down 2pts. So the cheapest loadout is havoc+reaper for 135pts, which is nuts for how durable they are. (And the twin heavy flamer is worth considering now that it can be fired in melee, but scourge + reaper is probably still best at 140pts.)
• Forgefiend went up 5 base, and hades autocannon went up 5. Ectoplasma didn't change. And Daemon Jaws went from 8 to 0! So proportionally, forgefiend didn't change much. So 135 for 2x hades and Jaws. This coupled with hybrid vehicles already getting big buffs in 9th should make it a solid unit (finally.)
• Maulerfiend on the other hand went up 20pts. But lasher tendrils came down 2, and magma cutter down 1. And the magma cutters might actually be worth using now that it can shoot them in melee. (EDIT: They already could, forgot they were pistol)
• Winged Prince and Disco lord got nerfed pretty hard. Both went up 30pts. Regular prince only went up 4. But Warp bolter went up 2, and paired malefic talons are up 5.
• Lord of skulls went up from 315-350, but its Daemongore cannon went down 10, its Gorestorm cannon went from 74 to 30!, and its other weapons didn't change. So as long as you're running the Gorestorm, it actually got cheaper! And most Knights went up by ~10%, so this makes it look quite nice.
• Landraiders went down 5pts, which isn't enough to make them worth using (even with cheaper terminators.) And Rhinos went up 10 base, so still very limited use.
• Special characters barely moved. Khârn went down 5pts. Abaddon only went up 10. He's only 220! Compared to where prince and Disco lords are now, that's a big deal.
• Predators and vindicators only went up 5. Heavy bolters going up 5pts on vehicles and lascannons going down 5 means you're gonna run las sponson preds for 5pts cheaper than before. That's pretty good considering.

So overall, our fate is mostly still a matter of getting our traits fixed. The internal balance of our book seems to be swinging away from spamming princes and discos, and towards hybrid vehicles.

 

EDIT: Thousand Sons:

• Exalted Sorcs down 12pts, and got their force staff free, so down 20! They are now 100/120 on disc, which might make them useful.
• Tzaangors only went up 1pt, so that's not bad.
• Scarab occult went up 4pts, and their swords 1pt, but their guns are still 3. so 31pts total. That's not great.
• Tzaangor enlightened up 5pts. That's a 38% increase, one of the largest. Their spears became free (only 1 pt change), but bows didn't change. So they're probably hosed.
• Horrors went up a lot. Ouch. Other daemons also got larger than 10% increases. Double ouch.
• Ahriman up by 19pts on foot, but only 4pts on disc? Odd.
• Magnus up 20pts, which isn't much of a % increase compared to other superheavies.

EDIT: Death Guard:

• Plague marines only went up 2 as said earlier, which isn't bad. Plasma gun now costs the same as blight launcher, which makes it more worthwhile. And other special weapons changed. Plague belcher down 2, plague spewer down 5, mace of contagion down 2, but flail of corruption up by 5!
• Blight Haulers down 5pts base, but multimeltas up 5 to compensate. But still, not changing in cost matters, and they benefit a lot from 9th ed changes, like other hybrid daemon engines.
• Plagueburst crawler up 30pts, which is huge. Heavy slugger down from 6 to 0 which helps, and rothail down from 12 to 5. But plaguespitters up by 3pts. This big increase likely is because its gained blast on the mortar, and indirect fire weapons will be more valuable in 9th with the new terrain. Probably still decent.
• Typhus and Mortarion only up by small amounts.
• Blightlords only went up 1 point base, and 1 for combi-bolters (but down 1 on combi-plasma.) They were already solid, and now should be great.
• Deathshrounds went up by 7pts, weapon down by 2pts. Seems to have gone from unusable to more unusable.
• Poxwalker from 5 to 7, probably dead?
• Characters haven't changed much.
• Bloat drone went up 16pts, and gets hit by plaguespitters going up 3. Fleshmower down 2pts, plague probe down 5, and heavy blight launcher down 10. Still seems a bit high compared to other daemon engine increases.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Drudge Dreadnought

[BrainFireBob]

Bringers of Despair!

[Khornestar]

10x Red Butchers with combi-bolters and chainfists, good to go. WOOOOO!

[Panzer]

 

Maulerfiend on the other hand went up 20pts. But lasher tendrils came down 2, and magma cutter down 1. And the magma cutters might actually be worth using now that it can shoot them in melee.

 

 

They are Pistol so it could already shoot them in melee anyway. Still not worth it I fear. :sweat:

Edited July 13, 2020 by Panzer

[Cheex]

Some missed opportunities (CSM in particular), but overall pretty much as expected.

 

Honestly, the biggest problems with CSM can't really be fixed with just a points update - we need a new book. The fact that GW has mentioned updated traits suggests to me that it'll be sooner than later, too.

 

In the meantime, my Berzerkers and Terminators look like they'll continue to be the heavy lifters of my army.

[MegaVolt87]

Anyone seen the full FW changes for us yet? I only heard our dreads went up a lot. 

[Khornestar]

Make sense of it as you can, will fix as I’m able:

 

FW CSM:

 

Decimator: 100

Blight drone: 255

Blood slaughterer: 180

Brass Scorpion: 600

Kytan: 430

Bile maw: 0

Blight reaper: 0

Butcher cannon: 35

Cbeam cannon: 30

Decimator stormlaser: 25

Hellflamer: 20

Blood slaughterer Harpoon: 0

Kytan gatling: 0

Scorpion tailgun: 0

Soulburner petard: 60

Soulshatter bombard: 0

Twin hellmaw flamers: 0

Decimator claw: 30/40

Cleaver of Khorne: 0

Hellcrusher: 0

Plague probe: 0

Slaughterer blade: 0

Contemptor Dread: 105

Deredeo: 150

Land raider achilles: 190

Proteus: 210

Leviathan: 220

Hellforged Predator: 90

Rapier: 20, crew 10 ea

Scorpius: 195

Sicaran: 180

Venator: 200

Terrax: 130

Dreadclaw drop pod: 130

Cerberus: 600

Falchion: 790

Fellblade: 690

Mastodon: 915

Spartan: 320

Typhon: 720

BP: 0

Boltgun: 0

Butcher cannon: 35

Array: 75

Cbean: 30

Combibolter: 3

Combi: 10

Demolisher: 0

Dreadhammer: 0

Dual Malignatas saker: 40

Ectoplasma batter: 50

Ecto Blaster: 10

Ecto cannon: 20

Fellblade: 0

Gravflux bombard: 65

Greater havoc: 20

Havoc: 5

Heavy bolter: 15

Heavy flamer: 15

Hellflamer: 20

Infernal flamestorm cannon: 30

Kharybdis Storm launchers: 0

Kheres: 25

Lascannon: 25

Laser destroyer: 60

Magna melta: 40

Malignatas beam: 0

Malignatas laser: 0

Melta cutter: 0

Melta cutters: 0

Meltagun: 10

Multimelta: 25

Plasma destroyer: 40

Predator autocannon: 40

Quad hB: 60

Quad lascannon: 80

Scorpius: 40

Siege melta: 0

Skyreaper: 45

Soulburner: 30

Soulburner bombard: 90

Ribaudkin: 70

Stormbolter: 3

Thermal jet array: 0

Thermal jet: 0

Twin accelerator: 0

Twin autocannon: 30

Twin heavy bolter: 30

Twin heavy flamer: 30

Twin lascannoN: 40

Twin MM: 50

Twin volcano: 0

Twin volkite: 10

Blade struts: 0

Eternal hunger: 0

Hellforged chainclaw: 30/40

Hellforged deathclaw: 20/30

Siege claw: 20/30

Siege drill: 30/40

Infernal hunger: 0

Termite drill: 0

Hellfire veil: 40

Zhufor: 120

Necrosius: 135

Reaver: 4000

Warhound: 2000

Warlord: 6000

Fire Raptor: 280

Hellblade: 100

Helltalon: 195

Storm eagle: 230

Xyphon: 110

Stormbird: 2100

Thunderhawk: 1350

Balefire miss: 30

Baletalon charges: 0

Dreadstrike: 0

Havoc: 5

Hellstrike battery: 60

Hellstrike missiles: 50

Helstorm: 25

Lascanon: 25

Pyrex; 0

Quad hB: 60

Reaper batterY: 30

Soulstalker missile: 50

Thunderhawk: 60

Thunderhawk cannon: 0

Turbolaser: 0

Twin avenger: 0

Twin HB: 30

Twin LC: 40

Twin MM: 50

Vengeance launch: 30

Warppulse: 0

Khorbax: 230

Mamon: 200

Uruk: 150

Aetosraukeres: 1500

Anggrath: 888

Sabiethrax: 777

Zarakynel: 666

Asterus: 850

Porphyrion: 820

Acheron: 520

Atropos: 580

Castigator: 460

Lancer; 460

Magaera; 490

Styrix: 475

Moirax: 155

Flamecannon: 0

Lascutter: 0

Autocannon: 15

Castigator: 0

Crusher: 0

Singularity: 0

Helios: 45

Ironstorm: 15

Karanknos: 0

Lascannon: 20

Lightning: 20

Lightning lock: 20

Beam: 15

Phased plasma:

Vagler: 5

Shock lance: 0

Hekaton: 55

Moirax: 0

Reaper fist: 0

Reaper chainSword: 30

Warblade: 0

Titanic feet: 0

Edited July 14, 2020 by Juggernut

[MegaVolt87]

Cheers Juggernut. Laser destroyer spartan 455, not bad it a favorite. Legion super heavies, no place in 2k list still. Call me crazy, but if I am forced to go MSU, I am actually looking at a typhon, then have AT via las/plas MSU etc for my IW's. Always wanted a typhon. 

 

EDIT- NOOOOO!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tim5nU3DwIE   the Typhon is out of stock.    

Edited July 14, 2020 by MegaVolt87

[Drudge Dreadnought]

A shame about Contemptors going up so much. But Hellforged Preds barely went up, and some of their weapon options actually went down. And hybrid vehicles are a lot better now too.

[MegaVolt87]

A shame about Contemptors going up so much. But Hellforged Preds barely went up, and some of their weapon options actually went down. And hybrid vehicles are a lot better now too.

 

I am probably reading it wrong, the melee versions seem to have taken way less of a hit than the ranged ones though in comparison. 

[Khornestar]

One is way better than the other, overall, so the points reflect that. Dual chainclaw contemptors ftw! Too bad hellflamers are so expensive, and plasma blasters dangerous. Soul burners also expensive.

[MegaVolt87]

One is way better than the other, overall, so the points reflect that. Dual chainclaw contemptors ftw! Too bad hellflamers are so expensive, and plasma blasters dangerous. Soul burners also expensive.

 

While I don't have any levi's, I believe ours were still capable of scrapping knights in melee on the charge in 8th according to the internets/ here. 

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

As someone who used contemptors a lot with my TS and on with my EC, ouch. My TS hellforged predator will see a lot more use though now, and it's one of my best painted models so I am happy with that at least.
No idea what to do with my FW voucher now though, was planning a contemptor, scorpius or sicaran veneator, now not so sure, last I head the chaos venator was hardly used so going up to 200 sees to have rendered it useless again.
 

[MegaVolt87]

I feel for the DG players who need to lean on the FW ranged dread setups. 

[Khornestar]

 

One is way better than the other, overall, so the points reflect that. Dual chainclaw contemptors ftw! Too bad hellflamers are so expensive, and plasma blasters dangerous. Soul burners also expensive.

 

.

 

While I don't have any levi's, I believe ours were still capable of scrapping knights in melee on the charge in 8th according to the internets/ here.

 

Yeah I bet it still can, just has to survive. At least a leviathan can utilize terrain

 

As someone who used contemptors a lot with my TS and on with my EC, ouch. My TS hellforged predator will see a lot more use though now, and it's one of my best painted models so I am happy with that at least.

No idea what to do with my FW voucher now though, was planning a contemptor, scorpius or sicaran veneator, now not so sure, last I head the chaos venator was hardly used so going up to 200 sees to have rendered it useless again.

 

I’m gonna give the flame storm cannon variant a go this edition. Still not insanely good or anything, but should be fun to move quickly with other fast moving things. Edited July 14, 2020 by Juggernut

[MegaVolt87]

After seeing the terrain rules leaks, if you use the smaller table + actually populate it with enough terrain I think melee levi will be great in 9th. #Stonks. 

[DiscipleOfTheWord]

Damn, I was thinking of getting a dual butcher cannon array leviathan as range support for my melee CSM, but it's now 410 points! For that price you could nearly take 4 oblits, which put out significantly better firepower. That sucks. Not really sure why some people seem to be promoting the leviathan as a good unit? Unless I'm missing something here. 

[Khornestar]

I guess good is relative but it’s still a badass unit. Double guns is way more expensive now, since being locked in combat still allows it to shoot all those shots at BS3+.

[Prot]

Well it looks like my beloved Contemptors with 2 Twin lascannons will stay in the lists with an acceptable 17 point net increase. 

 

(Thanks for including points.)

[Relic]

Hope they clarify Warp Talons as 17pts after painting a full squad of them here rather then 27pts! The latter is nuts. 17 in this edition would seem a bit cheap though..

Edited July 14, 2020 by Relic