9th Ed Speculation Thread

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

 

The faction focus on Death Guard had a playtester talk about how he was going to be able to use his Troops to take objectives easier which could mean 9th is going back to only troops being able to hold and take objectives.

We can only hope. I miss the days of, you know, armies fighting on the table.

Samesies. But I got a feeling unless only Troops can take objectives, they won't be. Vehicles and monsters got a big buff from of all of them being able to move and shoot heavies without penalties, shooting while fighting and blast weapons in general. Unless they heavily increase the point cost of said vehicles and monsters (or maybe their wargear) and leave troops costing less, I got a feeling there will be factions with the bare minimum troop size and requirements.

[Cheex]

If Troops make capturing objectives easier then the implication is that other unit roles can still do it, it's just harder.

 

Worst case scenario is that it's the same as now; best case is that only Troops can perform certain Actions, which might increase the number of VPs you get for them or something. I sincerely doubt they'll go back to making only Troops scoring.

[Panzer]

 

- Elite Squads. Min squads are better against Blast weapons, and it suits most of my build styles, however that being said, I can't guard Abaddon (for example) with 3 Oblits anymore. Even 5 Termies can disappear pretty quick in today's killy 40k.  Small Bike squads, etc. My character selection is going to be very tough. Hey maybe this is the edition we get use out of the Landraider!!!??? ....... (ducks tomatoes).

 

 

Keep in mind the 3+ models restriction doesn't apply to MONSTERS and VEHICLES. Just give Abaddon a pet Fiend/Rhino/LR he can hold hands with. ;) 

[Prot]

Oh he's going to be holding hands with a lot of friends! :)

 

I wish Oblits were Monsters. I think realistically I may have to use more Rhino's which is weird because I was starting to use 2 per list. 

[MegaVolt87]

Hopefully blast weapons are stupid expensive so a good counter to such spam lists is MSU to punish an opponents greed, thus discouraging spamming blast. I hate to say it, but if MSU becomes the major meta in 9th, i will probably switch to primaris or maybe finish my custodes where its more thematic for MSU. Or just band wagon necrons lol. MSU is just something I can't enjoy for CSM. 

[Khornestar]

Nothing different, for me. I’ve been spamming 5 man units of Berzerkers to pack as many power fists as possible into my army. Whatever else I have to cut, so be it. No more R&H detachments for CP, though, I’ll end up with roughly the same number so it’s a wash.

 

I’m hoping we can give our unit champs thunder hammers the way primaris can, but I think chances are low.

 

I’m wondering what will become of land raiders. GW would REALLY have to be out of touch to increase the points on those without some serious buffs, IMO. But 3 edition changes suggest to me this probably won’t happen, either.

[Panzer]

I’m wondering what will become of land raiders. GW would REALLY have to be out of touch to increase the points on those without some serious buffs, IMO. But 3 edition changes suggest to me this probably won’t happen, either.

 

Well I'd say being able to shoot into melee with probably all their weapons is a serious buff for Land Raiders. Hopefully it's not enough of a reason for GW to increase their points too much. :sweat:

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Nothing different, for me. I’ve been spamming 5 man units of Berzerkers to pack as many power fists as possible into my army. Whatever else I have to cut, so be it. No more R&H detachments for CP, though, I’ll end up with roughly the same number so it’s a wash.

 

I’m hoping we can give our unit champs thunder hammers the way primaris can, but I think chances are low.

 

I’m wondering what will become of land raiders. GW would REALLY have to be out of touch to increase the points on those without some serious buffs, IMO. But 3 edition changes suggest to me this probably won’t happen, either.

How do you find that? I admit I tend to be wary of power fists with chaos mariens as the minus one to hit losing us death to the false emperor is such a  pain.

[Khornestar]

 

Nothing different, for me. I’ve been spamming 5 man units of Berzerkers to pack as many power fists as possible into my army. Whatever else I have to cut, so be it. No more R&H detachments for CP, though, I’ll end up with roughly the same number so it’s a wash.

 

I’m hoping we can give our unit champs thunder hammers the way primaris can, but I think chances are low.

 

I’m wondering what will become of land raiders. GW would REALLY have to be out of touch to increase the points on those without some serious buffs, IMO. But 3 edition changes suggest to me this probably won’t happen, either.

How do you find that? I admit I tend to be wary of power fists with chaos mariens as the minus one to hit losing us death to the false emperor is such a  pain.

 

 

You could say... it's hit or miss!

 

Missing out on DttFE sucks, but by the same token the champ has a decent number of attacks at base, and fighting twice is excellent. I'm too lazy to do the math, but I'd suggest that a S10 -3AP Dd3 fist attack is going to outperform any other melee weapon against any other target, even with the -1 to hit. I'm sure in reality there are genuinely some situations where the fist is less desirable, but he's still got a chainsword, and the rest of the unit can easily sweep those targets off the board.

 

When Dark Apostles gave a default re-roll aura, that certainly helped a ton. Combined with an Exalted Champion, all those re-rolls would allow those berzerkers to just carve up anything. I ditched Dark Apostle and just went with a Lord and Exalted Champ. 

 

I firmly believe chainaxes and chainswords on the mooks + power fist and chainsword on the champ is the best loadout possible for the unit. With proper positioning and multi-target charges, I did my best to make sure the champ can aim his fist at characters/vehicles, and the rest of the crew at whatever else. Even with MSU, there are times where my opponents just go, "Yeah dude, don't bother with all that dice rolling, I'll just pick them up."

 

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

 

Unfortunately their badassery doesn't make up for the lack of shooting and vulnerability to shooting, though in an extremely casual environment I've found that 3 rhinos loaded with 2 MSU berzerkers with a fist on the champ backed up by other elements is more than adequate to have a fun game.

 

Again, without doing the math, I'd be willing to say a World Eaters Skull (Berzerker) Champion is the best model to be equipped with a power fist. 3 attacks base, +1 on the charge with World Eater Trait, +1 Hateful Assault = 5 attacks during the first round of combat, 3 or 4 (I forgot wording on Hateful Assault) the second round, so that's 8 or 9 attacks. More than a Chaos Lord, often as many as a Daemon Prince. Sure only WS4+, but I feel like it works out in the grand scheme of points calculations in terms of being "efficient," for what that's worth. Then, bring 5 more units so there are 5 more Skull Champions. Lots of fisting!

Edited June 23, 2020 by Juggernut

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

That is nice, May try and do something similar with some MSU Noise marine squads then.

[Schurge]

 

 

 

 

Nothing different, for me. I’ve been spamming 5 man units of Berzerkers to pack as many power fists as possible into my army. Whatever else I have to cut, so be it. No more R&H detachments for CP, though, I’ll end up with roughly the same number so it’s a wash.

 

I’m hoping we can give our unit champs thunder hammers the way primaris can, but I think chances are low.

 

I’m wondering what will become of land raiders. GW would REALLY have to be out of touch to increase the points on those without some serious buffs, IMO. But 3 edition changes suggest to me this probably won’t happen, either.

How do you find that? I admit I tend to be wary of power fists with chaos mariens as the minus one to hit losing us death to the false emperor is such a pain.

You could say... it's hit or miss!

 

Missing out on DttFE sucks, but by the same token the champ has a decent number of attacks at base, and fighting twice is excellent. I'm too lazy to do the math, but I'd suggest that a S10 -3AP Dd3 fist attack is going to outperform any other melee weapon against any other target, even with the -1 to hit. I'm sure in reality there are genuinely some situations where the fist is less desirable, but he's still got a chainsword, and the rest of the unit can easily sweep those targets off the board.

 

When Dark Apostles gave a default re-roll aura, that certainly helped a ton. Combined with an Exalted Champion, all those re-rolls would allow those berzerkers to just carve up anything. I ditched Dark Apostle and just went with a Lord and Exalted Champ.

 

I firmly believe chainaxes and chainswords on the mooks + power fist and chainsword on the champ is the best loadout possible for the unit. With proper positioning and multi-target charges, I did my best to make sure the champ can aim his fist at characters/vehicles, and the rest of the crew at whatever else. Even with MSU, there are times where my opponents just go, "Yeah dude, don't bother with all that dice rolling, I'll just pick them up."

 

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

 

Unfortunately their badassery doesn't make up for the lack of shooting and vulnerability to shooting, though in an extremely casual environment I've found that 3 rhinos loaded with 2 MSU berzerkers with a fist on the champ backed up by other elements is more than adequate to have a fun game.

 

Again, without doing the math, I'd be willing to say a World Eaters Skull (Berzerker) Champion is the best model to be equipped with a power fist. 3 attacks base, +1 on the charge with World Eater Trait, +1 Hateful Assault = 5 attacks during the first round of combat, 3 or 4 (I forgot wording on Hateful Assault) the second round, so that's 8 or 9 attacks. More than a Chaos Lord, often as many as a Daemon Prince. Sure only WS4+, but I feel like it works out in the grand scheme of points calculations in terms of being "efficient," for what that's worth. Then, bring 5 more units so there are 5 more Skull Champions. Lots of fisting!

Running 2 MSUs per Rhino, where do you put your Exalted Champions? The Lords presumably are on bikes or have jump-packs?

[Khornestar]

I don't always bring the exalted champs, or if I do I might shove 9 berzerkers in the rhino with room for the champ.  One fewer Skull Champion/power fist, but so be it. That, or I'll just have one unit hoof it and try to use cover to survive their charge across the table, respond to deep strikers, etc. Doesn't often bode well for them. Khorne cares not for losers who die before taking skulls, though. Their blood is just as good.

 

I really hope they stay the same (or improve) in 9th.

 

I'm worried with the points increases across the board, it won't be as easy to run my army this way. But, at worst, I'll just leave out the exalted champion. Berzerker horde is the way I want to run my World Eaters, so I'll find a way to make it work.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Juggernut

[Drudge Dreadnought]

A non-World Eater berzerker champ with a powerfist(8a) +chainsword(1a) is doing this amount of Damage, fighting twice (25pts):

Target/Unsaved Damage/Dmg per point

• Marine: 2.93, .117
• Guardsmen: 3.63, .145
• Boyz: 3.7, .148
• Landraider: 3.59, .143
• Rhino: 4.52, .18
• Leman Russ: 4.52, .18
• Multiwound MEQ: 5.7, .228
• Multiwound TEQ: 4.52, .18
• Genestealer: 3.63, .145

With chainaxe+chainsword (17pts):

• Marine: 1.93, .113
• Guardsmen: 4, .235
• Boyz: 3.93, .23
• Landraider: 0.63, .037
• Rhino: 0.96, .056
• Leman Russ: 0.96, .056
• Multiwound MEQ: 1.93, .113
• Multiwound TEQ: 1.26, .074
• Genestealer: 3.26, .19

So, the chainaxe comes out slightly ahead on raw kills vs horde units, but is nearly double the points efficiency vs horde units. But the powerfist has amazing efficiency against tough models and multiwound models, and its still no slouch vs hordes (and lets face it, the rest of the berzerker squad will mulch horde infantry anyway.) They are about even vs 1 wound MeQs. The powerfist will also benefit more from re-roll all hits, or bonuses to hit. The axe will benefit more from re-rolling wounds vs high T targets.

 

Its worth noting that the dmg vs points efficiency of the powerfist berzerker champ vs Multiwound Meqs might be the highest in the entire game, and possibly vs heavy vehicles too. (EDIT: Characters with Relics+Warlord traits probably do better of course)

 

So overall, I'd say always take the powerfist.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Drudge Dreadnought

[MegaVolt87]

@Drudge Dreadnaught, redact this info GW may see it and nerf berserkers. Replace it with zerks are garbage instead so we don't get a nerf in the 9th ed assault edition lol. 

[Drudge Dreadnought]

@Drudge Dreadnaught, redact this info GW may see it and nerf berserkers. Replace it with zerks are garbage instead so we don't get a nerf in the 9th ed assault edition lol. 

 

Hehe.

 

Honestly though, I'd give up some of that overkill level of offense to get a bit more defense so they can actually make it to melee. Efficiency is no good if you don't live to use it >_<

Edited June 23, 2020 by Drudge Dreadnought

[MegaVolt87]

Well, between the terrain rules and transports becoming more important, smaller table size that might just offset our wet paper bag tank so we can get our *ahem* "completely balanced and fair"  damage output across. 

[Khornestar]

Khorne’s blessings for the statistical analysis, frater.

[Bulwyf]

All of this cover in terrain rules coming makes me think my EC's Noise marines are going to be having some fun. Sonic weapons for all!

[Lord_Starscream]

All of this cover in terrain rules coming makes me think my EC's Noise marines are going to be having some fun. Sonic weapons for all!

 

EC's are gonna have their own codex, soon, I suspect. We don't know if that means a radical change in their sonic weaponry or not, unfortunately.

[Bulwyf]

 

All of this cover in terrain rules coming makes me think my EC's Noise marines are going to be having some fun. Sonic weapons for all!

 

EC's are gonna have their own codex, soon, I suspect. We don't know if that means a radical change in their sonic weaponry or not, unfortunately.

 

 

I've heard Fulgrim 40k model is already done just waiting to be released. So I do think we are going to have an EC codex and then a WE codex with 40k Angron coming out as well. 

 

I hope sonic weapons keep their unique rule to ignore cover and whatever terrain rules are coming. Realistically shooting super sonic weapons would ignore such things. 

[Maschinenpriester]

Seeing the new morale roles makes me assume night lords players might have an even harder time stacking morale penalties...

 

I also hope that sonic weapon will ignore all terrain penalties as they do right now. =D

Edited June 24, 2020 by Maschinenpriester

[Kain Mor]

Seeing the new morale roles makes me assume night lords players might have an even harder time stacking morale penalties...

 

I also hope that sonic weapon will ignore all terrain penalties as they do right now. =D

Sonic weapons and basically every other weapon with that ability only ignore the benefit to the save for being in cover, they don’t interact with any other buffs or penalties

 

Also, yeah. Night Lords are even more trash.

Edited June 24, 2020 by Kain Mor

[WarriorFish]

There's more than a few army traits that are lining up for adjustment for the new 9th rules set, going to have to wait and see as it looks like we might not find out how until the full Erratas are out. Even if not, subtracting Ld will still be useful; only need to plink one model off to force a check and each time they fail they risk up to the entire squad.

 

I think this is a good change for morale, helps mitigate the all or nothing aspect a bit. Though with my rolling for morale maybe not a great deal

[Kain Mor]

“Risking up to the whole squad”

If my opponent is rolling that many ones that day, I’m pretty sure I’ll have won based on his inability to hit or save more than the morale changes.

 

Morale in 8th was pointless, and the only thing I had faith that 9E wouldn’t make worse was the morale system, and here GW surprised me. It’s worse. So much worse.

[Bulwyf]

“Risking up to the whole squad”

If my opponent is rolling that many ones that day, I’m pretty sure I’ll have won based on his inability to hit or save more than the morale changes.

 

Morale in 8th was pointless, and the only thing I had faith that 9E wouldn’t make worse was the morale system, and here GW surprised me. It’s worse. So much worse.

 

Completely agree. My NL army had the most worthless army trait in 8th edition and now 9th looks to be just the same.