9th Ed Speculation Thread

[Kain Mor]

Word bearers still get honor of most pathetic trait in the codex since all loyalists got it for free, but I definitely put our night lords in second place.

[WarriorFish]

That is not how statistics works, so not a particularly constructive way to disagree with a point. Maybe GW have learned the lessons from 8th, maybe they haven't - until we know the full picture any judgements are premature at best. Even more so when we know that some army traits are changing, so how things are in 8th isn't any indication of how 9th will be.

[Kain Mor]

My point was you claimed that they are risking loosing a whole unit, they would have to roll nothing but ones for that attrition test, which as you point out, is incredibly statistically unlikely.

[WarriorFish]

My point was only that it is possible. Perhaps instead of talking about what was, instead you could ask what may be? I've heard GW have explicitly mentioned NL as something needing redress which is coming, wouldn't it be much more interesting to discuss what avenues GW could take or you'd like to see?

 

9th is going to be a very different game, that's just from what we know so far. Like it or not, 8th is approaching the end so we would do better to focus on what will soon be the present - even if we're still waiting for the full picture, but that's what speculation is for right? ;)

[Drudge Dreadnought]

The Word Bearers trait actually got a bit more useful, as re-rolling the morale test is no longer such a big risk, and it gives you a 2nd chance at rolling a 1 for autopassing. They effectively have 1/3rd chance of autopass. They still need some more stuff added to the trait, but i wouldn't mind now if a future new Word Bearers trait still contained a morale reroll.

 

I'm assuming that Night Lords, and many of the other factions/units with anti-leadership traits/rules, will get a re-work. Penalties to the attrition rule would be devastating. And a lot of the traits to ignore morale stuff also need to be rewritten. I'm optimistic that morale killer factions could actually be a thing this edition.

 

 

My point was you claimed that they are risking loosing a whole unit, they would have to roll nothing but ones for that attrition test, which as you point out, is incredibly statistically unlikely.

 

If they are under 50% strength, then its 1's or 2's.

[MegaVolt87]

The negative Ld mechanics can be improved by increasing the amount of models that flee on failed tests. Has the potential to be very good if buffed properly that way. NL still can hard lock things in melee, I would hardly call that rubbish. I am sure WE would love to be able to do the same. 

[Khornestar]

I am sure WE would love to be able to do the same. 

 

Yeah, can verify. Utter shame, that. :P

[McElMcNinja]

I've seen abilities/strats that say double the number of models that run, would it be safe to assume that means 2 models run? I have read that PA was written with 9ed in mind, so this might be them letting us know that the 2 models run getting us close to the under 50% mark.

 

Might just be me hoping.

[Bulwyf]

Trust me, I'm hoping they change the NL trait to make it actually mean something. I want people to be worried about their models running away from them. That is literally what they do to everyone in the fluff. 

[Special Officer Doofy]

But is that all you want in the legion trait? I got a feeling 9th is going to be monster and vehicle heavy because of their buffs and the debuff to infantry in the form of blast weapons. LD shenanigans won't do anything to those, and the trait will be worthless.

[Irate Khornate]

But is that all you want in the legion trait? I got a feeling 9th is going to be monster and vehicle heavy because of their buffs and the debuff to infantry in the form of blast weapons. LD shenanigans won't do anything to those, and the trait will be worthless.

This actually makes me happy I built my forgefiends with demonic jaws for when they get stuck in combat.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

It'd be cool to see a NL trait along the lines of +1 to W for melee and ranged on the turn a unit enters the board from strategic reserves (as a 2nd part to their current trait.) It might be too pigeon-holey though, as it'd force you into mass strategic reserve use. Maybe better as a strat.

 

Something defense as a part of their trait wouldn't hurt either.

[MegaVolt87]

But is that all you want in the legion trait? I got a feeling 9th is going to be monster and vehicle heavy because of their buffs and the debuff to infantry in the form of blast weapons. LD shenanigans won't do anything to those, and the trait will be worthless.

Chaff units also going up also in points, so less tar pits to screen monsters and vehicles if more into big center peice models. Plenty of infantry and characters, that can scrap vehicles well enough still. MSU will also render blast spam useless, blast will definitely also see points increases also. It's still a net win overall for infantry IMO.

[Bulwyf]

But is that all you want in the legion trait? I got a feeling 9th is going to be monster and vehicle heavy because of their buffs and the debuff to infantry in the form of blast weapons. LD shenanigans won't do anything to those, and the trait will be worthless.

 

Oh brother of mine...do not get me started on the injustices of Chaos vs Loyalist. The fact my Space Wolves and other Loyalists get multiple things with their legion traits plus the codex astartes turn 1 your whole army gets this, turn 2  your whole army gets that, etc. while my Death Guard, Night Lords and Emperor's Children get so little in return never fails to astonish me. 

 

I want Chaos to be at least as good as Loyalist marines in 9th edition. 

[Lord_Starscream]

 

But is that all you want in the legion trait? I got a feeling 9th is going to be monster and vehicle heavy because of their buffs and the debuff to infantry in the form of blast weapons. LD shenanigans won't do anything to those, and the trait will be worthless.

 

Oh brother of mine...do not get me started on the injustices of Chaos vs Loyalist. The fact my Space Wolves and other Loyalists get multiple things with their legion traits plus the codex astartes turn 1 your whole army gets this, turn 2  your whole army gets that, etc. while my Death Guard, Night Lords and Emperor's Children get so little in return never fails to astonish me. 

 

I want Chaos to be at least as good as Loyalist marines in 9th edition. 

 

 

 

We all have dreams.

 

Dreams that fade into memory, when we realize that it's Chaos Space Marines. Expect to get less, not more. And anything more they 'give' you, will be a burden, not a boon, lol.

[Special Officer Doofy]

Hehehe. It's going to take a very strong codex to bring chaos in line with loyalist. I like that enough of the stuff is different, but alot of it is just spikey marines let's be honest. If the loyalist version gets stacking traits and bonuses for the same point costed unit, chaos ones need stacking traits and bonuses too or be far less points. I think tactical marines might be one point more than a CSM, but their Captain is the same cost as our Lord, their predator is the same cost as ours but get the traits and bonuses and so on.

 

I can't imagine they bring out the next chaos space marines codex(es) and not rework the traits and make them army wide. If they don't I'll probably lose all faith in GW and quit for another 5-6 years again haha. They can't be that delusional can they?

 

I'm happy in 9th a xenos is the new big bad, they need their day in the sun too. The new necron models are amazing. I get a majority of players are marines or most people atleast have a marine army, so it makes sense to have the most models and options for them cause the plastic moves and makes money. But giving them the best rules to also help push the plastic is where I see them crossing the line into shady business.

 

Edit: Apperently I can't spell sun.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Putrid Choir

[Prot]

At this point, to me at least, the only thing saving the humble spikey chaos space marine is perhaps objective holding. If it turned out that was the only way to hold them. To me, the cultists will benefit the most from the 9th ed LD test mechanics. 

 

Many times in the past, you or your opponent could simply do the math, and realize the D6 roll was most likely going to destroy the rest of the squad. The bigger the squad, the worse it could be. In 9th that won't be the case.  

 

So now we see why Cultists went up 1 point. (which seemed like a lot in relation to the Intercessor).

 

I am really feeling like it's going to be up to the codex to resolve one of my biggest problems with CSM. I think the way this is looking you are going to see lots of monsters/vehicles and Possessed bombs.

 

Not that it would be horrible to see, but I keep waiting for our infantry to make a substantial come back in our list making. But it's been many, many years. Here's hoping....

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

At this point, to me at least, the only thing saving the humble spikey chaos space marine is perhaps objective holding. If it turned out that was the only way to hold them. To me, the cultists will benefit the most from the 9th ed LD test mechanics. 

 

Many times in the past, you or your opponent could simply do the math, and realize the D6 roll was most likely going to destroy the rest of the squad. The bigger the squad, the worse it could be. In 9th that won't be the case.  

 

So now we see why Cultists went up 1 point. (which seemed like a lot in relation to the Intercessor).

 

I am really feeling like it's going to be up to the codex to resolve one of my biggest problems with CSM. I think the way this is looking you are going to see lots of monsters/vehicles and Possessed bombs.

 

Not that it would be horrible to see, but I keep waiting for our infantry to make a substantial come back in our list making. But it's been many, many years. Here's hoping....

Maybe MSU chaos marines with melta and combi melta as anti tank? Though it is hard to call before we see how chaos marine and their equipment points change.

Not going to lie the more I see the more I'm thinking my Noise marines may be doing the best out of 9th out of my Grey knights, Thousand sons and classic wolves.

[Special Officer Doofy]

A new possessed kit in the near future would be welcomed haha.

[Khornestar]

 

At this point, to me at least, the only thing saving the humble spikey chaos space marine is perhaps objective holding. If it turned out that was the only way to hold them. To me, the cultists will benefit the most from the 9th ed LD test mechanics. 

 

Many times in the past, you or your opponent could simply do the math, and realize the D6 roll was most likely going to destroy the rest of the squad. The bigger the squad, the worse it could be. In 9th that won't be the case.  

 

So now we see why Cultists went up 1 point. (which seemed like a lot in relation to the Intercessor).

 

I am really feeling like it's going to be up to the codex to resolve one of my biggest problems with CSM. I think the way this is looking you are going to see lots of monsters/vehicles and Possessed bombs.

 

Not that it would be horrible to see, but I keep waiting for our infantry to make a substantial come back in our list making. But it's been many, many years. Here's hoping....

Maybe MSU chaos marines with melta and combi melta as anti tank? Though it is hard to call before we see how chaos marine and their equipment points change.

Not going to lie the more I see the more I'm thinking my Noise marines may be doing the best out of 9th out of my Grey knights, Thousand sons and classic wolves.

 

 

With the ability to outflank, that may end up being a cheap option to take some shots at vehicles/monsters, though too far to get the melta bonus. Still, sounds awesome. ANYTHING that makes taking CSM more likely sounds great.

[MegaVolt87]

 

 

At this point, to me at least, the only thing saving the humble spikey chaos space marine is perhaps objective holding. If it turned out that was the only way to hold them. To me, the cultists will benefit the most from the 9th ed LD test mechanics. 

 

Many times in the past, you or your opponent could simply do the math, and realize the D6 roll was most likely going to destroy the rest of the squad. The bigger the squad, the worse it could be. In 9th that won't be the case.  

 

So now we see why Cultists went up 1 point. (which seemed like a lot in relation to the Intercessor).

 

I am really feeling like it's going to be up to the codex to resolve one of my biggest problems with CSM. I think the way this is looking you are going to see lots of monsters/vehicles and Possessed bombs.

 

Not that it would be horrible to see, but I keep waiting for our infantry to make a substantial come back in our list making. But it's been many, many years. Here's hoping....

Maybe MSU chaos marines with melta and combi melta as anti tank? Though it is hard to call before we see how chaos marine and their equipment points change.

Not going to lie the more I see the more I'm thinking my Noise marines may be doing the best out of 9th out of my Grey knights, Thousand sons and classic wolves.

 

 

With the ability to outflank, that may end up being a cheap option to take some shots at vehicles/monsters, though too far to get the melta bonus. Still, sounds awesome. ANYTHING that makes taking CSM more likely sounds great.

 

 

What about the math on over-charged plasma gun rapid firing instead? I'm just still worried about distances with outflanking even on the smaller table. 9' away is still a thing for DS as well likely. 

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Unless there's some major changes to meltas or really massive changes to the points, meltas will still be overshadowed by plasma.

 

I'm hoping that they overhaul plasma in 9th, but i doubt it. The old balance of flamer being anti-light infantry, plasma being anti-heavy infantry and light armor, and melta being anti heavy and super heavy infantry (terminators) and all armor was a good system. But with plasma being statted the way it is in 8th, and having so many more methods to negate its overheating (reroll 1's everywhere), plasma usurped meltas role. Plasma used to be s7 and overheats. Having its new profile go to s8 is silly. It should have been s6, and s7 D2 on overheats. And cost less points.

 

That wouldn't have helped the melta be actually useful though. Meltas have suffered like all single shot random damage weapons have. Meltas could have been free, and still plasma would have been better to take because it actually does something.

[Sonoftherubric21]

A new possessed kit in the near future would be welcomed haha.

 

Of which I would instantly get multiple boxes for several list designs I have in mind.....

 

Ah, one can dream! 

 

As for the traits: given that Warhammer community said they are reworking useless traits, we will be fine in that regard if the rules team truly is paying attention. 

[Khornestar]

Word Bearers, as written, at least will be better due to the new morale system, right? Not much better, but marginally?

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Word Bearers, as written, at least will be better due to the new morale system, right? Not much better, but marginally?

 

Yes. +1 Leadership from Icon of Vengeance + reroll will go a long way to making larger squads of marines resistant to morale issues. If large squads of marines were good, this would be quite nice.

 

I suppose its good for 20man possessed builds.