9th Ed Speculation Thread

[Irate Khornate]

 

 

Word Bearers, as written, at least will be better due to the new morale system, right? Not much better, but marginally?

Yes. +1 Leadership from Icon of Vengeance + reroll will go a long way to making larger squads of marines resistant to morale issues. If large squads of marines were good, this would be quite nice.

 

I suppose its good for 20man possessed builds.

"Cackles in vindicator"

[MegaVolt87]

 

 

Word Bearers, as written, at least will be better due to the new morale system, right? Not much better, but marginally?

Yes. +1 Leadership from Icon of Vengeance + reroll will go a long way to making larger squads of marines resistant to morale issues. If large squads of marines were good, this would be quite nice.

I suppose its good for 20man possessed builds.

"Cackles in vindicator"

*Laughs maniacly in points efficient MSU*

[Irate Khornate]

 

 

 

Word Bearers, as written, at least will be better due to the new morale system, right? Not much better, but marginally?

Yes. +1 Leadership from Icon of Vengeance + reroll will go a long way to making larger squads of marines resistant to morale issues. If large squads of marines were good, this would be quite nice.

I suppose its good for 20man possessed builds.

"Cackles in vindicator"

*Laughs maniacly in points efficient MSU*

When CSM actually get those, I'll weep tears of joy.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

If we got loyalist style updated traits and some doctrine+super doctrine equivalent bonuses, CSM would be totally awesome with all their different ways of being run.

[Squike]

i would have been happy without doctrines and just army wide traits, but they couldn't even get that right, so my hope for anywhere near parity on rules to loyalists going into 9th is minimal at best.

 

on a side one thing i think they need to do though for 9th is make rhino capacity 11. so you can get a squad and a character in there. many of the new transports for other factions have this. and it would make the rhino marginally better.

[Khornestar]

If we got loyalist style updated traits and some doctrine+super doctrine equivalent bonuses, CSM would be totally awesome with all their different ways of being run.

Something I’d bet money will not happen. It might! Though, I’d say nay.

[Prot]

Although I more or less posted this in the Fabius topic, I think this might be a better spot to discuss the overall problem.

 

I've had the chance to try some 9th ed games, but haven't tried Chaos (with our currently understood rule set from 9th.)

 

I just can't get the HQ slot nailed. I have mentioned HQ's are basically what GW's been feeding us to 'fix' things, and obviously have a really decent profit margin on a blister. But I'm looking at my normal staples:

 

Abaddon, Daemon Prince, Sorc, Termie Sorc, Dark Apostle, Exalted Champ, Disco Lord, Master of Possession and now Fabius. All of this could be any legion you want (except Abaddon).

 

Even though that's quite a spread, literally I very often used: Abe, Sorc,DA,MoPs, and very often 3 Disco's!

 

Every list I make is very hard to function without those valuable HQ's, so I'm trying to imagine 40K with Abe + Sorc + Mop (or DA). It feels impossible right now, and 3 Disco's is looking too cost prohibitive. 

 

Now secondary to that concern I often played Chaos Knights with my Black Legion or... Flawless Host. It felt very fluffy. Now it's also very unlike with my Black Legion. 

 

I never mixed Daemons with my CSM in 8th (I never liked the mixed mechanics of the 2).

 

So I think for me the biggest downer I can see for my CSM is the greatest facet of my Custodes. Ironic.

[MegaVolt87]

Knights are quite an investment $$$$ wise for me. With FW units in 9th, still uncertain I am stuck to wait to see if getting chaos knights, imperial knights, Knights from FW or the FW custodes vehicles. Or do primaris/ necrons instead. My issue with the FW knights as well, even if they are rubbish in 9th ed, people won't want to play against them in HH as they have a bad rap there as not fun to fight against, so a waste of money. Without new models, new rules for CSM units I see little reason to buy further into the CSM faction sadly at this point. 

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Although I more or less posted this in the Fabius topic, I think this might be a better spot to discuss the overall problem.

 

I've had the chance to try some 9th ed games, but haven't tried Chaos (with our currently understood rule set from 9th.)

 

I just can't get the HQ slot nailed. I have mentioned HQ's are basically what GW's been feeding us to 'fix' things, and obviously have a really decent profit margin on a blister. But I'm looking at my normal staples:

 

Abaddon, Daemon Prince, Sorc, Termie Sorc, Dark Apostle, Exalted Champ, Disco Lord, Master of Possession and now Fabius. All of this could be any legion you want (except Abaddon).

 

Even though that's quite a spread, literally I very often used: Abe, Sorc,DA,MoPs, and very often 3 Disco's!

 

Every list I make is very hard to function without those valuable HQ's, so I'm trying to imagine 40K with Abe + Sorc + Mop (or DA). It feels impossible right now, and 3 Disco's is looking too cost prohibitive. 

 

Now secondary to that concern I often played Chaos Knights with my Black Legion or... Flawless Host. It felt very fluffy. Now it's also very unlike with my Black Legion. 

 

I never mixed Daemons with my CSM in 8th (I never liked the mixed mechanics of the 2).

 

So I think for me the biggest downer I can see for my CSM is the greatest facet of my Custodes. Ironic.

That is my concern as well, considering how much I've found chaos armies to rely on the buffs from HQ's I'm not entirely sure how my TS or EC are going to fair, I certainly feel like I may end up going dp, jump lord, termi lord just get enough rerolls, maybe swapping one for a apostle or sorcerer with my EC with pure combat characters like Masters of executions not getting a shoe in at all.

[Prot]

Well this may help out now that we know of this option:

 

[Kain Mor]

I’m just glad there won’t be double Primarchs lists running around anymore.

[BrainFireBob]

Strategic reserves+chaincannon Havocs? Edited July 1, 2020 by BrainFireBob

[Drudge Dreadnought]

It's also going to be a lot easier to bring building detachments. And since we can probably fit most of a list in a battalion or brigade, we might have room for them. Easier to bring those Gnarlmaws. And the Noctilith Crown isn't bad for its cost either.

[MegaVolt87]

It's also going to be a lot easier to bring building detachments. And since we can probably fit most of a list in a battalion or brigade, we might have room for them. Easier to bring those Gnarlmaws. And the Noctilith Crown isn't bad for its cost either.

 

Yeah, but its not a fort with missiles and gun ports like the new SM one.  *

 

*Sad Iron noises.*

[Coolbeans]

Well this may help out now that we know of this option:

 

Hey prot, new member and returning player, have they mentioned what the starting Detatchment you get for free is? Also does anyone know what has the Supreme commander keyword? I imagine the new necron guy might have it. Sorry if these are stupid questions.

[Panzer]

 

Well this may help out now that we know of this option:

Hey prot, new member and returning player, have they mentioned what the starting Detatchment you get for free is? Also does anyone know what has the Supreme commander keyword? I imagine the new necron guy might have it. Sorry if these are stupid questions.

Nothing so far has the Supreme Commander keyword, but we assume models like Shadowsun, Ghaz and Abaddon will get it.

 

There's no such thing as a free starting Detachment. Every detachment costs CP and the one your Warlord is part of will get its CP refunded.

Two exceptions to that though. The Fortification detachment gets its CP cost refunded if all the fortifications in it have the same faction keyword as the rest of your army, and the other one is the Supreme Command detachment you can see above.

[Coolbeans]

@Panzer: Ah so depending on the game size you play, your starting Detatchment would be a Patrol, Battalion or for some cheaper factions a Brigade, and as long as that is your warlord's Detatchment, it doesn't cost anything. I suppose this new versions of a Supreme command is their way of working in LoW Detatchments for certain characters without incurring an additional command point cost for the Detatchment.

 

If I understand it right, Ghaz and Shadowsun then would benefit from this because they only benefit from their own sub faction (if they are in that one) but can be in any Detatchment and not break the other Detatchments Battleforged bonus. So the Supreme command Detatchment could be Goff and he would then get his bonus, but the main Detatchment he would be refunding points to could be bad moons? If that's right that's kind of cool.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Coolbeans

[Squike]

so as some of us suspected the new Primaris chainswords are -1 AP..... so -2AP when they actually make it to combat with 4 attacks (5 on the sgt) each on the charge... thats gonna suck when melee was meant to be our advantage, also the Judiciar's new rules to shut down any enemy squad in CC until the end of the phase is going to punish the 1 squad we get to actually make it to CC, and his base stats pretty much put our MOE to shame.... chaos characters need more invun saves for sure, it seems every SM character and their mate gets a 4++ apart from maybe the lieutenants. 

[Panzer]

Yeah the Judicar is a real problem for melee units. Especially for armies without Snipers like CSM.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

so as some of us suspected the new Primaris chainswords are -1 AP..... so -2AP when they actually make it to combat with 4 attacks (5 on the sgt) each on the charge... thats gonna suck when melee was meant to be our advantage, also the Judiciar's new rules to shut down any enemy squad in CC until the end of the phase is going to punish the 1 squad we get to actually make it to CC, and his base stats pretty much put our MOE to shame.... chaos characters need more invun saves for sure, it seems every SM character and their mate gets a 4++ apart from maybe the lieutenants. 

 

It really is a slap in the face. And the audacity of them to name it Astartes Chainsword when most astartes already have chainswords, and almost certainly won't get upgraded.

 

We put up with a lot of downsides and being left behind on many parts of the game for a supposed melee advantage. But its been a whole edition of melee being lackluster, and it looks like 9th won't help that much. And now Primaris are going to be very respectable in melee!

 

We need new traits, and some nice doctrine and super doctrine equivalents if CSM are going to be relevant.

[Excessus]

Yeah the Judicar is a real problem for melee units. Especially for armies without Snipers like CSM.

The Alpha Legion doesn't share your view on a lack of snipers. ;)

[Panzer]

 

Yeah the Judicar is a real problem for melee units. Especially for armies without Snipers like CSM.

The Alpha Legion doesn't share your view on a lack of snipers.

 

 

Who? :P 

[Kain Mor]

Even alpha legion only have 1 way to really access a sniper.

 

I haven’t seen the judiciar rules yet, are they really that bad?

[Panzer]

Even alpha legion only have 1 way to really access a sniper.

 

I haven’t seen the judiciar rules yet, are they really that bad?

 

It's a decent beatstick that can select one unit at the beginning of the fight phase which then gets to strike last.

[MegaVolt87]

Even alpha legion only have 1 way to really access a sniper.

 

I haven’t seen the judiciar rules yet, are they really that bad?

 

Oh no, he as actually very good in fact.   His leg armor is a bit too stormcast from AoS, not a fan of the sword and his face mask head would actually look much better on our Master of executions to match his leather coat funnily enough.