Orks in 9th (Discussion/Speculation)

[Doghouse]

Is it likely you'll see more Boyz in trucks instead of large mobs?

[Guest Triszin]

DA JUMP!

[Kaldoth]

I'm honestly fine with needing to roll the right number against multiple targets. It always felt super game-y declaring multiple targets as a best case scenario kind of thing

[toaae]

The Ork faction focus article is up.

 

All told, it's really just a filler article. They do reveal that the Magatrakk's main weapon is a Blast weapon, and that there is a terrain trait for -1 to-hit, but other than that, nothing new.

[Warhead01]

Did new Morale just make Mob rule better?

[adreal]

Did new Morale just make Mob rule better?

I think the new morale rules are a net gain for any horde type unit. Orks with mob rule are better

[toaae]

The new morale is also great for Grots. Before, if your 10 gretchin suffered 7 casualties, the other three were guaranteed to run away. Now, there's a chance you auto-pass, and even if you fail, you might still have a grot or two hanging around.

As for Orks and mob rule, there's a break point based on casualties taken and unit size when it comes to if combat attrition is worse or better. Overall, I definitely think it's a boost, but it is possible to have a worst case scenario where you take 13 casualties, roll a 5-6 on morale, and then roll a bunch of 1s for combat attrition. But the flipside is that if the unit takes a bunch of deaths, like 23, instead of being auto-wiped, you'll have that chance at auto-pass and then a very good chance at least one Boy survives for Green Tide.

[Warhead01]

Thoughts on the new Close Combat rules? 

[Kaldoth]

The list of all blast weapons for 9th was leaked. Orks are getting Blast added to:

 

Brogg's Buzzbomb

Bubble Chukka

Burna Bottles

Da Boomer

Da Souped Up Shokka

Deffkannon

Grotzooka

Heavy Squig Launcha

Cannon

Killkannon

Kustom Mega Kannon

Kustom Mega Zappa

Lobba

Rokkit Kannon

Shokk Attack Gun

Skorcha Missiles

Smasha Gun

Squig Launcha

Stikkbomb

Stikkbomb Chukka

Stikkbomb Flinga

Supa Rokkit

Tankbusta Bomb

Wazbom Mega Kannon

 

Grotzookas are good again!

[toaae]

Thoughts on the new Close Combat rules? 

 

Overall, I think melee is weaker than it was in 8th. I don't think that means it's necessarily worse off, but just as a comparison to how it played. I expect we'll see a new style emerge. 8th was dependent on the Wrap-and-Trap. Maybe 9th will emerge with something else. My guess is durable melee units will be the go-to. We don't really have that, unless 30 meganobz becomes the "it" build. But I feel safe saying melee in 9th will be much different than in 8th.

 

 

Grotzookas are good again!

 

They got a HUGE boost, with vehicles not suffering -1 to-hit on heavy weapons and then the blast rule. I fear they may end up getting a sky-high price, though. We'll have to wait and see.

[adreal]

Points I feel will be the main factor in how good orks are in melee v shooting, terrain, if you play on ITC tables, will be your friend, if not, well, I doubt you'll see a change.

 

Also we have to factor in mission secondaries, as some may be easier to get with hordes of boys for example.

 

The overall lack of overwatch, the penalties for falling back (not shooting) is a boon for sure, the smaller engagment range will hurt (especially if your still on 25mm) as will having to reach everything you declared.

 

I was at a 1 day tournie on Saturday and took note of how many multi charges I pulled off, with positioning and ere we go, it wasn't too bad, and if ere we go doesnt change (ie we can reroll 1 or both dice) then we should be okay

[Akrim]

Ive had a few 9th games with my Orks so far...

Ive found the smaller table dimensions to be pretty significant, its much easier to pin opposing armies in their zone or force them to advance - either way is good for us.

 

Battlewagons/Bonebreakas are much more survivable with obscuring terrain. Squig-hide tyres Kustom Job can get the turn 1 charge regardless.

 

Im looking forward to it, Orks seem good (so far).

[Warhead01]

I wasn't sure it was worth starting yet another ork in 9th themed thread. Mods feel free to make any adjustments you see fit.
 

I just watched a how to play 9th edition video by Strikingscorpion86. Informative I guess. This lead me to looking at what I am currently working on in a bit of horror. That is Blood angels and then at Assault Intercessors. To the point, Those guys have at minimum 3 attacks each with -1 AP and now +1 to St on the charge. not counting any other rules or buffs. minimum 30-ish attacks. 
Which leads me back around to the Orks. Do we need to be concerned about that? is it no big deal? How do we counter?

 

And back again to the old debate...Shootas or choppas? Now that 9th has been out for a while what have you changed and what's working well. 

I had a dream last night that I was playing a 40K game with my Orks which is what motivated me to ask all of that stuff up there. 

 

[Brother Carpenter]

Is there any chance of a new codex on the horizon?

 

Asking because my daughter is starting an orc army and I have to buy her a set of rules soonish.

Last year july I bought the new (to me) marine codex, only to have the next new codex emerge 2 months later 

3 ed rules that we are playing now are fun, but I'd rather teach her the proper way.

 

Grtzzz Rinke

[The_Chaplain]

Yes Brother Carpenter-- the newest edition has come out this year- so a new codex for orks will be coming out, though we don't know when.

[Slave to Darkness]

So any advice for someone starting Blood Axes who has not used Orks since 2nd ed? Money is a bit tight atm so dont wanna buy anything thats kinda useless. 

[Deffrekka]

So any advice for someone starting Blood Axes who has not used Orks since 2nd ed? Money is a bit tight atm so dont wanna buy anything thats kinda useless. 

Blood Axes kind of like Vehicles which is a bit odd although you can make it fluffy and stay they are using Imperial Tank Doctrines. Because they get light cover at 18" away they like to stick back and shoot, which makes things like Megatrakk Scrapjets, Shokkjump Dragstas, Gun/Kannonwagons, Dreads/Nauts more durable vs small arms. Then when they get into combat you have the freedom to fall back shoot or charge which can make a Redrolla Bonebreaka pretty cool if it survives long enough to make use of this. Sadly they are one of the more bad Clans. The Psychic power they have, Clever Talk is great, but Blood Axes dont have great ways to capitalise on melee like Goffs and Deathskulls (to some extent Evil Sunz due to them actually getting into combat way more reliably than any other Clan).

 

Their Clan trait can be shut down pretty easily compared to the others, armies can ignore Light Cover, simply get into the 18" range or just wrap/kill whatever units they charge so you cant fall back and shoot/charge.  With Blood Axes I think the best way to play them is be smart, Use the Warlord trait Kunnin' but Brutal to redeploy your units, Dead Sneaky to deepstrike your units up onto keypoints and Da Finkin' Kap to get an additional Warlord trait like Follow Me Ladz! Basically you are building your army to best support one another instead of relying on powerful combat characters and missiles. Basically play them Unorky in a way with loads of patience and restraint. Try control the board as best you can and make the most of your Clan trait.

[Deffrekka]

I wasn't sure it was worth starting yet another ork in 9th themed thread. Mods feel free to make any adjustments you see fit.

 

I just watched a how to play 9th edition video by Strikingscorpion86. Informative I guess. This lead me to looking at what I am currently working on in a bit of horror. That is Blood angels and then at Assault Intercessors. To the point, Those guys have at minimum 3 attacks each with -1 AP and now +1 to St on the charge. not counting any other rules or buffs. minimum 30-ish attacks. 

Which leads me back around to the Orks. Do we need to be concerned about that? is it no big deal? How do we counter?

 

And back again to the old debate...Shootas or choppas? Now that 9th has been out for a while what have you changed and what's working well. 

 

I had a dream last night that I was playing a 40K game with my Orks which is what motivated me to ask all of that stuff up there. 

 

 

Im a Shoota guy myself but I play as Evil Sunz so I can capitalise on the advancing and shooting with greater movement meaning I can act in pretty much the Shooting and the Charge phase. From my experience its the Boss Nob that does all the work vs Primaris when it comes to our Boyz mobs. Now the meta is very much Goff Skarboyz with Choppas but there are other ways to deal with Space Marines as Orks.

 

The key is to make a supremacy list. That means you dominate a couple aspects of the game, be it movement, psychic, shooting. charging, board presence.  Try not to mix and match units. Taking some Boyz and some Vehicles just doesnt work, you have to force and issue. Either mass Boyz or mass Vehicles. You dont want to give your opponent efficiency for all types of weapons he has available. Board control is king, and Orks are great at this. Box him in to his deployment, be hyper aggressive but also restrained. You dont wanna throw away units and as Orks you want to trade upwards, meaning you go for things worth more than your units. Orks are bullies, dog pile certain things, use charging into throwaway melees to gain more board space and creep onto objectives. You dont have to really kill anything. Granted thats boring. ;)

 

Look for weapons that just cleave Primaris in half. Thats damage 2-3 weapons and cost effective platforms like Smasha Guns. You have to make the charge first (which can be hard seeing how Blood Angels are Evil Sunz but better due to the +1 to wound in melee and more attacks in addition to the advance and charge modifiers they have). I dont really like StrikingScorpion86, for army advice that would be. There are a lot of channels out there that dont do Competitive Ork armies justice. Id say Tabletop Titans is the best to go for when it comes to meta and such even though their games are relatively tame and chill. Id say ArtofWar40k but Ii only like Richard Siegler, the rest especially Nick really grind on me. But thats my opinion haha! Others probably love them.

 

Back to shoota and Choppas ive seen people do a mix. Either 15/15 split of Shootas and Choppas or 20/10. Expecting to get all Choppa Boyz in combat is pretty slim with either casualties, stretching to claim objectives and just engagement range, so youll probably never get more than 15 in melee range. I used to be a Slugga Boy the whole way through like 4th all the way to 7th, but I prefer the extra options when it comes to Shoota Boyz. I can shoot some chaff or other units further from my target I want to charge (its respectable shooting, like up there with anything that isnt Primaris) and then I dont effect my charge range. But this might not work with any other Clan except Evil Sunz, because your going to be advancing and charging a lot. Hitting on 6s isnt great. Overall I think you get more out of Shootas and Choppas, you could have 1 or 2 rounds of shooting and then a melee compared to probably 1 round of combat as Choppas. I dont expect Slugga Boyz to live longer than 1 combat so I better get the most of my 250pts mob.

[Warhead01]

Thank you for the reply. That was very helpful. I sorta play Goffs but I did find shoota boys were better than expected at the end of 7th. You've got me thinking it may be worth while to start using rockits in those mobs again. I tend to play a gorka morka list with a splash of everything just because it's more fun for the other player, usually one of my long time friends. 
I'm starting to get tempted into looking through the codex again I set Orks aside probably more than 2 years ago now. 
I'm not big anymore on 40K youtube channels.  This edition reminds me in a way of 2nd edition and that's one edition I didn't play Orks in so I should give it ago this edition. 
I am probably going to field boys, dreads, mek gunz and a few trukks. Basically what ever I used to field. I didn't really use MANZ last edition so I will have to find a place for them this time around.  
It's funny, your advice almost comes off as just play you old list and you'll be fine...just play smart.

I'll run the numbers and try to find time for a game. 

[Warhead01]

Looking at the new updated points costs pdf I see GW has added points for a Big Mek with KFF. 

Where's the data sheet for that now days? I know it's not in the codex currently.

[Seahawk]

That's in the Psychic Awakening book. It's made a wondrous return.