9th and Custodes

dice4thedicegod · July 21, 2020

So, post FAQ, the dreadnought stratagem still halves damage (instead of reducing it by 1, like the marine version)?

Hoping dreadnoughts are good - just picked up a contemptor (I know, not a patch on a telemon) and figure the pregame strat for an extra attack and charge rerolls, combined with damage reduction, should be a useful addition.

I don't see an FAQ for war of the spider. Did it drop somewhere?

Oh darn, good point - I’d just looked in the latest codex faq.

Maouw · July 21, 2020

OK im finishing my list for Custodes with some advice from FB custodes group.

However i have still a question wich im not sure about : what could be the better choice between 2 sagitarum and one assassin ? (i have already the vindicare one but i could grab all 4 of them if really needed)

Dark Legionnare · July 21, 2020

OK im finishing my list for Custodes with some advice from FB custodes group.

However i have still a question wich im not sure about : what could be the better choice between 2 sagitarum and one assassin ? (i have already the vindicare one but i could grab all 4 of them if really needed)

If you're using an assassin, and its the vindicare, make sure he can hang out in back with a Calladius, land raider, some kind of vehicle. Until they get some kind of "lone wolf" type errata or such, that means they have old character rules. Not saying that's coming, just saying, that's basically the only exception in his case.

Most of us wouldn't want to leave any of our expensive-as-hell custodes in back just to character screen him. And even if we did, all it takes, on a min unit of 3 custodes, is for one of them to die, and now the assassin is targetable since the unit is under 3 models.

Keep that in mind against any armies that have decent, cheap shooting volume with D3 type damage or such, like guard. Nothing will ruin a Vindicare's day like a wayward basilisk or Leman russ battle cannon seeing him once he's not humping the back of a vehicle or left behind only two custodian guard lads.

Maouw · July 21, 2020

Okay so i can't let him alone in the backline.

My plan is to take a shooting bubble with trajann, a telemon, a vexila and 3 sagitarum, can i include a vindicare in that bubble ?

Balerion84 · July 21, 2020

I personally wouldn't play Vindicare with Custodes, especially now. Even before, he failed me more often than not. His biggest asset for me was his mind games, where he forced my opponent to play even more cautiously with his characters, which can be nice, but at the some time, it keeps them even further from my allarus hunters. I think Callidus and Culexus (even against non-psykers with his fight last stratagem) are better.

And with the new character rules now... yeah, vindicare doesn't look like the right choice for custodes as pointed out above.

Dark Legionnare · July 21, 2020

Okay so i can't let him alone in the backline.

My plan is to take a shooting bubble with trajann, a telemon, a vexila and 3 sagitarum, can i include a vindicare in that bubble ?

In this case, that's pretty decent. They'd have to get through a Telemon and at least one Sagitarum to get at Trajann, the banner, and or the Vindicare.

At the same time, that's a lot of expensive, key characters with not the best resistance (aside from Trajann with his 3+ invuln) to the same cannons, basilisk, etc... once they're open. Keep in mind, with the screening having to be within 3", they're all basically humping each other's legs in a tiny bubble for safety to be shielded by the telemon and the Sag squad both.

I'm not saying that's something easy for your opponent to do, just advising the situation that unfolds once the Tele and 1 Sag are gone. New character rules are a big deal, especially for assassins.

I personally wouldn't play Vindicare with Custodes, especially now. Even before, he failed me more often than not. His biggest asset for me was his mind games, where he forced my opponent to play even more cautiously with his characters, which can be nice, but at the some time, it keeps them even further from my allarus hunters. I think Callidus and Culexus (even against non-psykers with his fight last stratagem) are better.

And with the new character rules now... yeah, vindicare doesn't look like the right choice for custodes as pointed out above.

Yeah. I brought him twice for the same reason, to make a DG buddy fear getting his Foul blightspawn in optimum positioning to make my lads not strike first. I'm still a fan of the eversor suicide charge. Thematic and fun.

Vindicare is a relic for Custodes, sadly. He'll still show up with my Krieg army, where he can hang around plenty of cheap bodies, arty, etc... But for custodes, the slimness of model count makes him hella' vulnerable.

That said, if facing somebody who only had mid-range (0-24" avg) firepower, like DG, he'd probably still be cool for it. PBC and Defilers are the only real ranged threat if they're bringing them, but they're expensive (unlike guard basilisk and Leman Russes) and hitting him on 5's. However, that'd be list-tailoring, which I avoid, so take that as you will.

Maouw · July 21, 2020

Ok ok, ty for the feedback. I guess taking 2 sagitarum is better and more reliable then

Mr. Funktastic · July 22, 2020

I don't think a Vindicare is that bad of a choice actually. His Exitus Rifle can reach anywhere on the table so you don't need to have him anywhere close to your opponent's anti-infantry weapons and if they want to waste long range anti-tank guns on him instead of your Telemon or VLR, let them go ahead. Also with the new Slay the Warlord secondary in the GT book (Cut Off the Head) you can score 10 VP if you can kill their warlord on turn 2. I think paired with Allarus character sniping and having a Vindicare chip in or even finish them off, it can be a pretty potent combination depending on the army your opponent is playing and can net you 10 VP and maybe even 1 CP in the process. I wouldn't write the Vindicare off so quickly.

Balerion84 · July 22, 2020

Yes, on paper Vindicare sounds great. Vindicare plus Shadowkeeper bike cap and squad of Allarus sounds like the perfect combination to break the opponent's command structure (that's exactly what I tried). In reality, at least from my experience, he rarely actually kills any characters, not to mention a warlord. Don't know about you guys. He's more of a deterrent than an actual killer of characters. Which is not bad mind you and might actually be very useful. He'll more often than not make your opponent play hide & seek with their characters. But counting on him killing enemy warlords is a road to disappointment in my opinion. Killing an enemy warlord in turn 2 to net you 10VP sounds great in theory. In reality, he probably won't even see the warlord most of the game. Plus he might as well have 4+ BS with the amount of missed shots in my games :D In my game vs TS, I had both Callidus and Vindicare, they both had their shot at Ahriman (who wasn't even warlord) and it was Callidus who took the chance.

If your experience with Vindicare is better, than great, use him. I'd love for him to be the sniper I want him to be... but, he disappointed me too many times and he's behind Culexus and Callidus as the best choice for Custodes for me personally.

Hellex_The_Thanatar · July 27, 2020

War of spider giveth, FAQ errata taketh.

As expected the dread strat for damage reduction is down to -1 minimum 1 just like marines.

Agents don't get to get our buffs (a huge duh from my end but the wording did need a fix).

All in all, not great not bad.

AfroCampbell · July 29, 2020

War of spider giveth, FAQ errata taketh.

As expected the dread strat for damage reduction is down to -1 minimum 1 just like marines.

Agents don't get to get our buffs (a huge duh from my end but the wording did need a fix).

All in all, not great not bad.

Yea, in my opinion a very appropriate set of changes.

I wish they did something to fix the Guardian Spear, hopefully with new codex there will be some reason to take it.

Maouw · July 29, 2020

And maybe do something about the warden, i don't see any reason to take them so far....

Hellex_The_Thanatar · July 29, 2020

I want guardian spears and shields. Is that too much to ask!

nordsturmking · July 29, 2020

Yep. I don't get the Warden thing either. For 13 points more i get an Allarus with a mis.
which has:
one more wound,
build in teleport,
extra shooting weapon,

a few extra strats,

the warden has:
6+ FnP

dice4thedicegod · July 29, 2020

I think the wardens provide cheap volume of attacks with spears (use the +1 damage strat if needed)

You do your heavy lifting with terminators but a 3 - 5 man warden unit with spears is very affordable to bulk out the list. I’m thinking of stuffing some in a coronus grav carrier, along with a dread host relic axe wielding shield captain with exploding 6s.

AfroCampbell · July 30, 2020

I think the wardens provide cheap volume of attacks with spears (use the +1 damage strat if needed)

You do your heavy lifting with terminators but a 3 - 5 man warden unit with spears is very affordable to bulk out the list. I’m thinking of stuffing some in a coronus grav carrier, along with a dread host relic axe wielding shield captain with exploding 6s.

Yea, but they don't really hit any meaner than the much cheaper Guardians, this is the crux of it, they don't fit at all between Termies and Guardians, but have no real role. I want them to be different/better at a thing!

Maouw · July 30, 2020

I want guardian spears and shields. Is that too much to ask!

I feel ya brother, i love the look of the blade but spear and shield is a absolut beast visual combo

dice4thedicegod · July 30, 2020

I think the wardens provide cheap volume of attacks with spears (use the +1 damage strat if needed)

You do your heavy lifting with terminators but a 3 - 5 man warden unit with spears is very affordable to bulk out the list. I’m thinking of stuffing some in a coronus grav carrier, along with a dread host relic axe wielding shield captain with exploding 6s.

Yea, but they don't really hit any meaner than the much cheaper Guardians, this is the crux of it, they don't fit at all between Termies and Guardians, but have no real role. I want them to be different/better at a thing!

Guardians aren’t much cheaper:

Spear&misi guardian = 52

Spear&misi warden = 55

3 points for an extra spear attack and a 6+++ isn’t bad. I just think they benefit the most from transportation (lacking storm shields or the termie strat to ignore ap)

TheFinisher4Ever · July 31, 2020

I got my first 2 actual in person games in with my Custodes last weekend and Im extremely happy with them. I ran a patrol with an Auxiliary for an extra elite slot. 10 CP is plenty, though it is surprisingly easy to blow all it before the game starts with extra stuff.

The top performers have been my Venetarri both games. They almost brought down a knight in one volley. With 2 CP on them for auto wounding and double shots, they are viscous. Your opponent will then focus almost everything on them after that though so they will probably die.

Maouw · July 31, 2020

Happy to hear that :)

Do you have a list to share ?

librisrouge · July 31, 2020

I'm fascinated about the success you've had with Venetarri. Their rules have always seemed a bit wonky to me but I've finally pulled the trigger and bought some Custodes (just basic guys so far). I know that I'll want a fast unit and I was just assuming bikes but if these guys can pull their weight I might have to revise my opinion.

TheFinisher4Ever · July 31, 2020

Happy to hear that :)

Do you have a list to share ?

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [101 PL, -2CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Shield Host: Dread Host

+ HQ +

Captain-General Trajann Valoris [10 PL, 190pts]

Shield Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor [8 PL, -1CP, 118pts]: Admonimortis, All-seeing Annihilator, Captain-Commander, Castellan Axe, Misericordia, Slayer of the Unclean, Warlord

+ Troops +

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]

. Sagittarum Custodian: Misericordia

+ Elites +

Aquilon Custodians [17 PL, 320pts]

. Aquilon Custodian: Lastrum Storm Bolter, Solarite power Gauntlet

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought [8 PL, -1CP, 160pts]: Eternal Penitent, 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter

Vexillus Praetor [6 PL, 128pts]: Castellan Axe, Misericordia, Vexilla Magnifica

+ Fast Attack +

Pallas Grav-Attack [5 PL, 105pts]

Venatari Custodians [14 PL, 300pts]

. Venatari Custodian