Will 3k point games become the new norm?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m thinking Onslaught will become the go to size for games.

[toaae]

I’m thinking Onslaught will become the go to size for games.

 

Doubtful. The points cost increases would have to be very large to warrant that change. More likely, this is simply a correction for the falling points costs throughout 8th.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If we look at increase in cost of basic Intercessor as a metric for overall points increase it equates close to 120 percent. Going from 2k to 3k is 150 percent... so a difference of 30 percent. This could easily be a stealth incentive enabling GeeDub to easily garner more sales. Surely monsters and tanks will increase even more in points. Edited June 4, 2020 by Black Blow Fly

[Marshal Loss]

The problem is that we don't have enough information to render a conclusion with any kind of meaningful accuracy here, and at a basic level those points increases may not be representative of what we're going to see elsewhere. Time will tell but I'm inclined to agree with toaae

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I used to play 30k which typically runs at 3000-3500 points... those were some really fun games to spend an afternoon . It’s actually not that speculative either since they have provided the bench marks.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Black Blow Fly

[Noserenda]

Only thats a completely different rules system with a substantially different philosophy going on behind points maintenance, i mean ive played 3000pt 2nd ed games and those were loooooong :D  

[Schurge]

I don't know what Onslaught is but I think you are being a bit paranoid. If they wanted to sell more product by increasing the model count in game they could just as easily cut points.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m not paranoid and in fact I’d rather play larger games to be honest .

[NTaW]

Somehow I feel like the go-to size for games has a lot to do with maximum amount of points crammed into the average amount of time any gaming group has available for gaming (campaign/narrative exceptions all over this statement). I know for a lot of people I game with and around the size of the match depends on whatever tournament standards are in vogue, so if you can cram 1750 point matches into the 1.5 hour time slot the local tournies have available for rounds that's what the go-to game size is. I've watched this number fluctuate since 5th edition (before that I didn't pay any attention to anything but lore and models) but I imagine it's been the same for everyone but the weekend blow-out crowds that play all the points for all the hours (a personal favourite).

 

I found myself and my friends lowering the points levels of matches after the last CA book from 2k to 1750. It was roughly the same models pre CA2020 but forced tougher decisions list building that continuing at 2k didn't. 2k matches pre book took the same amount of time as 1750 point matches after and we typically had that much time available for matches so that became the norm.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Remember when 1.5k points was the norm (3rd edition)... then it finally jumped to to 1.75k points, then 1.85k and back down again to 1.75k... I think around 6th edition it finally reached 2k points.

[War Angel]

Remember when 1.5k points was the norm (3rd edition)... then it finally jumped to to 1.75k points, then 1.85k and back down again to 1.75k... I think around 6th edition it finally reached 2k points.

My first game was in September 2001 (3rd edition) and we played 2k.... because it was my first game, and I was 13, I literally showed up with what I had (such god awful paint) and my opponent helped me build a list. He took all the models I had, and then to get me to 2k, had me take all the upgrades I could. Veteran honors on sergeants, frag and krak grenades for the whole squads (for those of you who don’t know this, Marines used to pay extra for these things) my first game should have turned me away from ever playing again because I probably should have been playing a 1200 point game but he had me take 800 points in upgrades.

 

Later on I played some games where different opponents only brought 1750 so they could practice their tournament lists. So I really have no idea when 2K became normal, it was always the way I played. Just bringing this up because it’s weird. Anyway, I’m down for 3k, a little scared of what it’s going to mean for my perfectly planed out guard army. But I love throwing all of my models on the table.

[mughi3]

Well it won't for me..since all i will be playing is my 1k point admech force. (my old marines will be happy in 30k or 5th ed at 2k points)

 

Unless i want to play epic 8th ed style....but we use power level for that so.....

[PiñaColada]

I seriously doubt it'll jump up to 3k. Considering it's still built upon the same framework as 8th I don't think it's crazy to assume it won't play much quicker than 8th. Some units skipping firing/fighting to do an action is most likely quicker (but might require a bit more thought) whereas more advanced terrain rules are almost certainly going to slow things down to some degree as an example.

Tournaments today already have a really tough time to make everything fit and adding another 30 minutes to each game (or worse, telling people to speed up even more) sounds like a bad idea IMO. They said that points roughly are returned to what they were in the beginning of 8th so I think it's far more likely that 2k stays the norm but we see similar point cuts throughout 9th as we did 8th.

[Xenith]

No. Unless you choose them to be. Games don't magically happen, people decide what point level to play.

 

Remember when 1.5k points was the norm (3rd edition)... then it finally jumped to to 1.75k points, then 1.85k and back down again to 1.75k... I think around 6th edition it finally reached 2k points.

1.5k was always GWs suggested point level, and the point level of most UK events. From 3rd/4th through to 8th.

 

I think only US events went to 2k, or 2.5k for ardboys, which removes the challenges from list making.

 

That said, I'd imagine some groups will want 3k points because they want all the CP to start with.

[Panzer]

Unlikely people will suddenly start playing 3k. The points so far seem to be somewhat similar to early 8th and people didn't suddenly start playing 3k then either.

[AenarIT]

It all depends on where the point increases will land. 
If my current 2000 point lists end up closer to 3000 than to 2000, I'll definitely look forward to play at 3000. 

We know that cultists went up by 50% and that the base cost for Intercessors went up less than that, but we have no idea about the weapon costs. 
If I had to guess, tanks and monsters could go up as much as the cultists or even more, especially considering the new BLAST weapons. If that ends up to be the case, our 2000 point lists would basically be 3000 points.

[Dark Shepherd]

3k in 9th would be at best 2.5k in 8th

 

Cant see zee influential tournament scene or stores with timeslots for games adopting it

[DuskRaider]

Unlikely people will suddenly start playing 3k. The points so far seem to be somewhat similar to early 8th and people didn't suddenly start playing 3k then either.

 

They literally mention 3,000 point games in the new write up...

[MARK0SIAN]

Personally, although the points increases will obviously end up as an average across the game, I wouldn’t at all expect them to fall even close to uniformly. It may not even be properly divided into elite and horde armies except in terms of a rough approximation of the overall increase.

 

It will be done on an army by army basis. So we probably can’t even say tanks will go up or monsters will go up. We might have a situation where Guard tanks jump massively and marine tanks hardly move.

 

Large, uniform increases would utterly invalidate some factions like knights and Custodes so it will have to be more focussed. We may end up with a situation where some armies and some lists have gone up significantly in points whilst some are barely touched.

 

So what was a 2k list for army ‘A’ might Become the current equivalent of a 1.5k list. Whereas a current 2k list for army ‘B’ will only become the equivalent of 1.8k. And this may be deliberate to balance out more elite armies against cheaper ones.

 

That all means that I think it’s unlikely for the standard to go to 3k because it would give a huge advantage to the armies that got the lowest points increase.

Edited June 4, 2020 by MARK0SIAN

[Panzer]

 

Unlikely people will suddenly start playing 3k. The points so far seem to be somewhat similar to early 8th and people didn't suddenly start playing 3k then either.

 

They literally mention 3,000 point games in the new write up...

 

 

So? Playing bigger games is not a new option, you know? The current rules also mention 3000p games. People still didn't bother playing bigger games as default.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Panzer

[DuskRaider]

 

 

Unlikely people will suddenly start playing 3k. The points so far seem to be somewhat similar to early 8th and people didn't suddenly start playing 3k then either.

 

They literally mention 3,000 point games in the new write up...

 

 

So? Playing bigger games is not a new option, you know? The current rules also mention 3000p games. People still didn't bother playing bigger games as default.

 

 

Unlike the current system, 9th gives an incentive to play 3K (max CP). So... yeah, people probably will play 3K games.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

Unlikely people will suddenly start playing 3k. The points so far seem to be somewhat similar to early 8th and people didn't suddenly start playing 3k then either.

 

They literally mention 3,000 point games in the new write up...

 

 

So? Playing bigger games is not a new option, you know? The current rules also mention 3000p games. People still didn't bother playing bigger games as default.

 

 

Unlike the current system, 9th gives an incentive to play 3K (max CP). So... yeah, people probably will play 3K games.

 

More points means more detachments means more CP already. Still no.

[AenarIT]

Again, we can't say for sure until we see the point increases across the board. 
If the cultists went up 50% and vehicles get better and deadlier, it's safe to assume that they will increase as much or even more than that. 
Once you have 200+ points dreadnoughts (redemptor-like, the ones that are cheap right now), 150+ points transports (rhinos, ...), 150+ points basic characters, etc etc, going from 2000 to 3000 would be logical.
Provided that the players want to play with roughly the same amount of models they do now, of course.

[PiñaColada]

I mean GW themselves tried to lower the standard game to 1750 during 8th but a lot of places (primarily in the US it seems) continued to play at 2k. So this might just be GW making those 1750 games into 2k ones from a amount of models perspective to negate that schism. That might seem counter-intuitive since GW obviously wants us to buy models but I suspect they also don't want the games to look dauntingly large to new players/ prospective new players.

[Panzer]

People have such huge backlogs, I doubt less models on the board will significantly reduce the amount of models people buy. :sweat: