9th Edition: Reflections and Predictions for AM

[WarriorFish]

I thought there would be something like this, makes sense! With the Strategic Reserves thing I'm wondering if we might see Flyers more often, or rather Aircraft? Always was a conundrum whether to bring the Hydras or not :P

[sairence]

Now I'm just curious if the Spearhead, Vanguard and Outriders cost less than the Patrol.

[duz_]

If a Battalion is 4 and a patrol 2 I would imagine the vanguard 3, 2 at the least.

[sairence]

If a Battalion is 4 and a patrol 2 I would imagine the vanguard 3, 2 at the least.

Wasn't the Battalion already previewed at 3CP at an earlier stage?

[jaxom]

Yeah, maybe the idea was patrol is 2, battalion is 3, and brigade is 4?

[duz_]

Took a bit of digging 4th of June!

I stand corrected Battalion is 3 cp not 4 don't know where that came from

Now I have no idea how many cp the specialist detachments would be

 

[GuardDaddy]

My infantry guard approach looks like being in real trouble.... its going to flip from having CP for days, to needing 6 CP to even exits (2nd and 3rd battalion)

[Are Verlo]

With these changes my Steel Legion mech inf with tank support, got a decent buff.

 

With some creativity they all fit in a battalion. HQs are a bit limited, but it is possible to skip on the company commanders and include some of the «elite» officers.

 

Edit: Platoon commanders! That is what they are called!

Edited June 27, 2020 by Are Verlo

[Warhead01]

My infantry guard approach looks like being in real trouble.... its going to flip from having CP for days, to needing 6 CP to even exits (2nd and 3rd battalion)

It seems to be some kind of balance, smaller model count armies will have more left over Cp's on turn one, or pregame. Large model count armies will just have more models to make up for starting with less CP's. I don't think it will matter. (to me anyway.) If at 2000 points we start off with 12 Cp I'll still have 6 and spend some of that on reserves/outflanking and probably only have 2 or 3 Cp on turn one before the command phase. So I will need to plan a little more on my Cp expenditures. What hurts will be having to spend Cp to combine squads. I'm not really sure that's something I want to spend CP on when I will have so few but I don't even know if it will be important or as important with so many model, as it would be when I have less models on the table in a smaller sized game.  

We'll see. 

[GuardDaddy]

@warhead01

 

Stop being so rationale about it!!! what about my CP goddamit!  :)

 

Game design wise it does shift balance in game towards inate abilities that units have - and for guard make the little things you could do proportionately more expensive.

 

Lets say you get 6 CP from the in built regen I think they have said you get. 6 for 2 extra battalions... (this is me optimistically assuming guardman don't bump in point). leaves 12 during game. thats 2 per turn. Not much when re-rolls taken into account!

 

Overall its a balance shift.

[Warhead01]

@warhead01

 

Stop being so rationale about it!!! what about my CP goddamit! 

 

Game design wise it does shift balance in game towards inate abilities that units have - and for guard make the little things you could do proportionately more expensive.

 

Lets say you get 6 CP from the in built regen I think they have said you get. 6 for 2 extra battalions... (this is me optimistically assuming guardman don't bump in point). leaves 12 during game. thats 2 per turn. Not much when re-rolls taken into account!

 

Overall its a balance shift.

 You win this round. lol.

 

For me having played Index Orks and having never played from the codex, I don't really have any expectation about CP and don't think I'll spend a lot of time worrying about in game usage for a while. I don't really like the CP/stratagem portion of 8th very much. I am sure we'll figure out the optimal strats for the optimal units and the optimal conditions...and splatter the internet with them. They will be unavoidable in conversations with random strangers at the game store. Like it or not.  

 

 

[Kain Mor]

 

 

My infantry guard approach looks like being in real trouble.... its going to flip from having CP for days, to needing 6 CP to even exits (2nd and 3rd battalion)

It seems to be some kind of balance, smaller model count armies will have more left over Cp's on turn one, or pregame. Large model count armies will just have more models to make up for starting with less CP's. I don't think it will matter. (to me anyway.) If at 2000 points we start off with 12 Cp I'll still have 6 and spend some of that on reserves/outflanking and probably only have 2 or 3 Cp on turn one before the command phase. So I will need to plan a little more on my Cp expenditures. What hurts will be having to spend Cp to combine squads. I'm not really sure that's something I want to spend CP on when I will have so few but I don't even know if it will be important or as important with so many model, as it would be when I have less models on the table in a smaller sized game.

We'll see.

The thing is that flipped the entire game design from when they made the stratagems on its head. Guard had tons of CP and cheap stratagems that didn’t do much, while other factions were supposed to have few CP but very impactful stratagems.

 

Now it’s gonna be the other way around, and that’s pretty disconcerting

[HallofStovokor]

 

 

My infantry guard approach looks like being in real trouble.... its going to flip from having CP for days, to needing 6 CP to even exits (2nd and 3rd battalion)

It seems to be some kind of balance, smaller model count armies will have more left over Cp's on turn one, or pregame. Large model count armies will just have more models to make up for starting with less CP's. I don't think it will matter. (to me anyway.) If at 2000 points we start off with 12 Cp I'll still have 6 and spend some of that on reserves/outflanking and probably only have 2 or 3 Cp on turn one before the command phase. So I will need to plan a little more on my Cp expenditures. What hurts will be having to spend Cp to combine squads. I'm not really sure that's something I want to spend CP on when I will have so few but I don't even know if it will be important or as important with so many model, as it would be when I have less models on the table in a smaller sized game.

We'll see.

I fundamentally disagree with this "balance" tactic. The balance between elite and horde armies was supposed to be in relation to the unit count. Elite armies can only take a few models because they are significantly better than the cheap units. A 5 man intercessor squad is far more likely to kill a squad of Guardsmen than the other way around. That's why the points exist. The elite army principle is quality over quantity, while the horde army principle is quantity is a quality. Giving an army that is inherently better another advantage, is counter-productive to balance. Detachments shouldn't cost CP unless you soup. I'm not opposed to everyone getting the same amount of CP, just punishing those who want to experiment with their lists. This will create less variety and lead to more boring games. Edited June 27, 2020 by HallofStovokor

[duz_]

Let's what to see what happens in 9th

They've balanced the field on CPs

However they've also said they're going to rebalance points

 

IG might be one of the few armies to field a brigade which would definitely be a blessing from the Emperor

[jaxom]

I think it’s about balancing utility. Paying 2-3 CP for a Catachan detachment for all the artillery tanks to back up Valhallan mechanized infantry (or what have you) seems worth it the cost.

[MedicMike0708]

Right but we have things that should be universal special rules or at least faction special rules costing our diminished and ever more scarce command points. From the faction focus: “splash damage” is 1 CP for a single hellhound (not a unit of them) to make the inferno cannon (or its variants) ignore cover. Having a giant flamer tank that ignores cover has been a guard staple for many editions, now what should be a specific weapon attribute costs 1 CP

[Wassa]

Flamer rules are still coming I hear.

[Warhead01]

Got me thinking Strats should be like Maelstrom of war cards where you draw a number of them and just have those to spend or discard drawing every command phase so we'd have a number of Am strats and a number of Generic available in the deck. I'd love to see something like that in 40K. Picking and planning for strats is basically deck building already. Why not go all in on it.

[Kain Mor]

Got me thinking Strats should be like Maelstrom of war cards where you draw a number of them and just have those to spend or discard drawing every command phase so we'd have a number of Am strats and a number of Generic available in the deck. I'd love to see something like that in 40K. Picking and planning for strats is basically deck building already. Why not go all in on it.

Most stratagems are either incredibly situational or something you want to do every turn... I can’t see this idea working at all, as neat as it is.

[Phubar]

I would have the stratagems selected before game, like Psy powers :)
I struggle remembering all the options available to me so often i dont use something that it could change the game for me. In this manner my opponent will have my same handicap too :D

[sairence]

The price of superheavy detachments is going to make Baneblades pretty tough to bring if there aren't any other fundamental changes to how they work. They were already not that amazing man my due to the limited survivability. If they now need a serious pregame CP investment it will barely make them worth it. :-/

[WarriorFish]

I don't think I used my Baneblade in 8th, the focus on numbers meant I was always looking elsewhere to spend those points such as Russes or Hellhounds and the like. The rumour of a cap on wounds per phase would help SHs, but there are notable issues I see with that such that the alternative of doing it per turn seems better. Some armies (such as Guard) are limited in which phases they realistically can do damage so as ever a good compromise is best.

 

There's also the consideration of scale, it's a big difference between a single SH and a Knight army so hopefully what we get gives all a decent chance.

[MedicMike0708]

I am hoping for guard specific rules for super heavies/LOW since the idea of taking 1 for 3 CP or 3 for 6 CP as featured in the knight faction focus is pricey. Hopefully there will be a guard “planetary beachhead detachment” or “steel-smashy detachment” that lets you shoehorn in ~titanic~ lords of war for a more reasonable CP cost. Unless of course they up the survivability of the baneblade chassis by some yet unmentioned method.

 

Edit: atrocious typos

Edited June 28, 2020 by MedicMike0708

[duz_]

That's expensive 6 CP for 3-5 LoWs...

 

I guess that's why they included the tank ace strat for Baneblades in PA so you could take an auxiliary detachment and still have it benefit from RDs.

 

My lists of taking 3 super heavies might be moot though

[brother_b]

I don’t want this game to become a deck building exercise as well as CP use exercise. I think that will detract even more from the tabletop aspect of the game, like movement and assault. CP expenditure and stratagems have already moved in on the basic play of the game IMHO.