9th Edition: Reflections and Predictions for AM

[Wassa]

Half the game is a list building exercise.

 

8th was a bit of a nightmare for guard, the time it took to build a 2k point list maximising detachments and doctrines, not to mention packing the damn army easily took an hour.

[GuardDaddy]

I increasingly think that of all the changes - the board size - bearing in mind we tend to be a high model count army, will be biggest so far.

 

Everything is closer - deepstrike denial is proportionately bigger. Medium range weapons more effective (more board in range). 

[Wassa]

A little birdie told me unit coherency may be changing to stop the stringy lines and promote grouping.

[jaxom]

Half the game is a list building exercise.

 

8th was a bit of a nightmare for guard, the time it took to build a 2k point list maximising detachments and doctrines, not to mention packing the damn army easily took an hour.

 

Yeah, Guard are definitely a rabbit-hole in that regard. Even a straight forward "here's the models I want to use, what points are we looking at?" can take time.

 

I increasingly think that of all the changes - the board size - bearing in mind we tend to be a high model count army, will be biggest so far.

 

Everything is closer - deepstrike denial is proportionately bigger. Medium range weapons more effective (more board in range). 

 

I'm curious if we'll see lower model count armies now that melee doesn't completely bork tanks. I know my collection habits went towards working on more infantry rather than expanding my Russes got they shut down hard (careful screening usually bought one extra turn of firing). They were still useful for setting up other units (the much bemoaned "tank falls back and all these infantry squads open with FRFSRF"). Considering Russes have ObSec, I think moving tanks up with infantry could be very useful and I'm curious what a 50/50, 25/75, 75/25 mix would look like.

[DarthWaffle]

Hmm new unit coherency; 6+ models in a unit have to be within 2" of 2 models.

 

That will make those multi-base holders for units of 10+ pretty helpful to maintain coherency. Very much going to hurt screening? 

[duz_]

Well the part that wasn't revealed at the same time for some reason, and is the most important is

 

After morale is taken any models not within coherency are removed until coherency is restored

 

That's a big deal for conga lining and screening out

 

Poor placement could see half a squad or more easily wiped if you don't maintain the 2 model coherency

 

Now this only seem to apply if there are more tja. 6 models in a squad

[GuardDaddy]

Hmm new unit coherency; 6+ models in a unit have to be within 2" of 2 models.

 

That will make those multi-base holders for units of 10+ pretty helpful to maintain coherency. Very much going to hurt screening? 

 

If only GW had started selling these........ oooh they have - the cunning devils

[Shamansky]

Meet Tibia formation, comrades!

[Warhead01]

I'm not sold on that yet. Where are the casualties going to come from and how does that effect the unit cohesion check. 

[GuardDaddy]

@shamansky - after 2 casulaties that collapses on iteslf as the ends of the line are left hanging so the end trooper only has one within 2" and you would have to pull casualties until you got to the triangle at the other end

[duz_]

Actually you'd have to pull models until there was only 5 left because that's when the requirement to be within 2 model ends

I don't think it impacts us to much as well probably lose 3-4 models when being shot at (without dedicated firepower) so we might lose 1 or 2 more after morale

[Shamansky]

@shamansky - after 2 casulaties that collapses on iteslf as the ends of the line are left hanging so the end trooper only has one within 2" and you would have to pull casualties until you got to the triangle at the other end

That is not the shieldwall of spartans that will guard your tanks forever. that's how you still can close table borders and provide rows of infantry to enemy's guns and blades

[Warhead01]

Earlier today in a DKoK group I am in some one posted a ? master list? of blast weapons but I can't find it now and didn't get the chance to down load it. it was small and hard to read in the picture so I didn't get a good look at it, I just know it's floating out there in space some where.  Keep an eye out for it. 

[duz_]

It's floating around

 

The guard ones aren't surprising. If it was a template in 7th it's a blast now

Surprisingly they didn't differentiate ML rounds

 

It didn't appear to have FW weapons on there though

[Phubar]

Those are only GW weapons, FW will have its own list.

 

Btw the first lines of the page said that if a weapon has multiple profiles the blas rule applyes only to and to all profiles with random shots.

[duz_]

Core rules were release by GW today

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/02/free-core-rules-new-models-sighted/

[GuardDaddy]

Ok going to do some recommends for those who want to see games played out using the 9th Edition rules

 

Really interesting and high model count armies - note how quickly board fills up. Also good example of terrain interaction - this is going to be a big change. The changing nature of buildings once touched in terms of LoS going to be a key dynamic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7NGKyw30l0

 

There summary was also good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6soKXTb4oJ0

 

Also The TT guys as they continue to set bar in terms of production.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blKv2JJ-N6I&t=296s

[zero88]

Anyone else think the LR Exterminator and Punisher could be making a comeback in 9th? A Tank Commander with an upgunned Exterminator can pleasantly sit in combat and 'swing' with 8 S7 AP-2 D2 attacks that hit on 4s. I like that tanks can't be bogged down by a Grot slapping them anymore, but it also doesn't make sense how effectively good in combat it makes vehicles now as well. A Contemptor dreadnought with quad Lascannons can hit almost as hard as one with a pair of Fists. I know one case is defensive only and the other is offensive and defensive, I just still can't fully wrap my head around it. Heavy Flamer Chimeras for one won't be complaining!

[GuardDaddy]

I've heard rumour that plasma always explodes on a 1 regardless of modifiers..... anyone confirm this

[duz_]

I've heard rumour that plasma always explodes on a 1 regardless of modifiers..... anyone confirm this

The data sheet for the plasma pistol in the starter set says natural rolls of 1s only

I've seen a comment that this was always the intent so hopefully this change rolls out across the board and we will no longer have leman Russ Sponsons over heating on 1s, 2s and 3s!

[jaxom]

Unmodified sixes and unmodified ones have been showing up more often in the rules lately. All the new Scion abilities (from GG) which proc on sixes are unmodified sixes.

[sairence]

 

I've heard rumour that plasma always explodes on a 1 regardless of modifiers..... anyone confirm this

The data sheet for the plasma pistol in the starter set says natural rolls of 1s only

I've seen a comment that this was always the intent so hopefully this change rolls out across the board and we will no longer have leman Russ Sponsons over heating on 1s, 2s and 3s!

It's worth noting that this kind of change will only really take effect when the Codexes are updated. The only other way would be to include it in the day-one FAQ to adjust every single plasma-datasheet entry.

 

So while I'm convinced we'll get unmodified 1s and 6s for every ability like that, there's no guarantee it'll happen evenly across the board right away.

Edited July 6, 2020 by sairence

[Wassa]

Anyone else think the LR Exterminator and Punisher could be making a comeback in 9th?

I’ve always been using the Punisher. I probably single handedly caused the points increase :)

[GuardDaddy]

Further ponderings... 

 

"You go - I go" deployment model is good for guard. With MSU we are going to be finishing up deployment after opponent in lots of match ups. The follow up of then determining first go further buffs this as we have equal chance of going first. (although my ability to not roll higher than a 3 in a roll of I'm sure will continue in this edition....).

 

Obscuring and smaller board means both sentinels and hellhound chassis good value, their good movement and ability to hide on dense tables good. Feel this makes brigade option feel less like a tax, as its the FA slot that is weakest for guard.

 

My general grump about CP alleviated by chat with friend who pointed out the Creed means you have 19 CP over game. (Creed 2 + Stike Force 12 + 'game turn' 5). As infantry heavy brigade + battalion gives me 18 Troop slots and 16CP (assuming I pay the 3 CP for the second battalion). that also gives me the option to run 2 diff regiments as I currently do.

 

Pushing up board with screen really benefits from the new charge rule of fail one of any charges in a multi charge and counts as fail over all. It pulls combat onto your screen, no more declaring a sort charge against screen and a hail mary target as long charge, then hitting screen only if you fail it.

 

Smaller board means enemy in your face faster, not because of gap between deployment zones, but because you have to deploy much more 'on the line' simply due to space.

[Wassa]

I'm a bit worried about this edition for Guard.

 

• We lose out by paying for more detachments. It means we might be forced to fill a brigade with slots we don't want.
• Everyone gets the same CP. While 12+5CP is about what we'd have on a normal game, everyone else has it too. I feel that Guard stratagems are generally weaker, and each stratagem will be used on a unit which generally costs less points, giving us less return on investment than a stratagem used on an SM unit for example.
• Smaller board size hurts us as we favour long ranged battles. We also generally hate combat.
• Everyone says vehicles firing in combat is great for us. It's not really, we can't fire blast weapons which makes up most of our vehicles. The weapons that can fire in combat like Heavy Bolters are having a price increase, and extra weapons weren't competitive before. I doubt our sponson weapons will kill the unit in combat that would allow us to fire our blast weapons. The only real winner is the Punisher, though being heavy it hits on 5s assuming no degrading.
• I'm not sure how I feel about Blast weapons yet. Sure we can now fire our tanks and artillery into hordes in a pinch and they'll be more effective. Our Cadian tank commanders could already reroll shots, catachans could natively, and basilisks could too. I think the Wyvern gains the most out of it, though I'd still prefer the Punisher against hordes. What I'm mainly worried about is the price increase this causes on our weapons, I predict we'll be paying more for these Blast weapons that do nothing to help against Space Marines/Eldar which were probably our hardest match ups.

 

However the maximum  modifiers being -1/+1 and always hitting on 6s would be great for us. As is moving and firing heavy weapons. Although we're still limited to slow moving tanks due to Grinding Advance letting us fire twice if we move under half. Doesn't help Cadians as much though!