Thoughts on Prepping for 9e

[Dracos]

Obviously this is a mental exercise at the moment, but I've had my cry about how the points increase, +1/-1 to hit, table size, etc are going to hit us hard, harder than most Astartes in my opinion. Next stage .... redoing my almost done 2k list for AdeptiCon21 with 9e in mind.

 

Where you see Intercessor in this list you can reread the 2 with powerfist (rebuilding thunder hammer sgts) as Assault Intercessors assuming they cost similiar ... and speaking of cost I made this a 1,600 point list because I'm assuming a 20% increase across the board. It's another 60 points back if its straight 17% but let's assume Bad. If it ends up less, awesome, I get the Thunder Hammers back and maybe a bell or whistle somewhere else. 

 

I do Infantry ... but since the Invictor has a living pilot I feel, I'm still doing Infantry

 

 

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Raven Guard) [1,599pts] ++

 

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard (need to rethink Successor Traits with 9e changes)

 

+ HQ +

 

Captain in Gravis Armor

Primaris Chaplain

 

+ Troops +

 

5 Bolt Rifle Intercessors: Sergeant chainsword (need to rebuild with power fist)

5 Bolt Rifle Intercessors: Sergeant chainsword (need to rebuild with power fist)

 

5 Assault Intercessors: Sergeant: power fist (need to rebuild with power fist)

5 Assault Intercessors: Sergeant: power fist (need to rebuild with power fist)

 

+ Elites +

 

5 Boltstorm Aggressors

5 Boltstorm Aggressors

 

Invictor Tactical Warsuit: Incendium cannon (own, need to build and paint)

Invictor Tactical Warsuit: Incendium cannon (own, need to build and paint)

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

5 Assault Inceptors

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

3 Sniper Eliminators

3 Sniper Eliminators

3 Sniper Eliminators

 

++ Total: [102 PL, 1,599pts] ++

 

 

 

Anyone who has seen my previous list knows I was using two Incursor units for midboard presence. I "think" I can use or strats with Assault Intercessors at a cheaper cost, and points are more a premium than ever. Which might suggest the two units of Inceptors is too much. I think with the new terrain rules I'm going to need them though. I'll need a unit other than a character that can shift and  actually move with having to Advance. Smaller board means we are going to be packed a bit tighter but the midboard looks like its staying the same, its the half foot on either end that's going to make this feel like a fight in a phone booth.

 

I'll admit though they were fun to paint I'm not crying tears of blood to see the Incursors go. I just like Intercessors models better, and the Assault Intercessors really call out to me. The Infiltrate and other tricks Raven Guard have makes them the expendable squads for me. They lack the fighting/shooting power the cheaper Intercessors have, and I'm still salty it looks like stacking smoke grenades with the Chapter Tactic is going to be situational at best. 

 

I'm sure this is just the first of a dozen revisions I'll have as more rules are released and we see how all the new rules synergy works, but for now this has my favorite Primaris models (sans the Judicar and Bikes) and keeps the bulk of original vision intact.

 

 

 

I hope to hear from the rest of the Ravenspire what plans you are making going into 9e.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Dracos

[MegaVolt87]

I don't plan on buying anything new for 40k to prepare until I have the full rules in front of me for 9th ed- well I guess I will get the 9th ed starter box as I like what I see there so far. I don't know if getting the 9th ed starter box counts in this instance though ?

[Race Bannon]

My first thought is no more purchase. Yet, I amikely to get boxed sets like the core box to reduce costs per unit.

[WAR]

same here no plans on buying anything but I have a huge backlog unbuilt and unpainted stuff I've been trying to chip away at. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Well, points increases across the board isn't going to make things like incursors unplayable, they are still one of the best troop choices in the game. Being able to booby-trap objectives, movement lanes, and all of their other boons still doesn't warrant intercessors > incursors. Perhaps a 2:1 but not dropping them all together.

 

Everything play testers are saying is tanks and vehicles have gained the most from this edition. Astartes executioners with a built in +1 to saves is incredible razorbacks may also have a place again. But if peimaris only, impulsors are going to make excellent smite shields, as I think grey knights and 1k sons have gained the most from the changes to detachments.

 

I've been planning for a second patrol detachment to get that crucial 4th HQ. It seems to me that a Pat is going to cost the least CP to get a 4th HQ, though I think BA & Nid players especially may add in a Supreme command detachment since the troop tax has changed to a CP one. RG have a built in counter to that, but being able to use the same boons several other chapters have to spend CP on for free makes RG strong contenders for a SCD. Shadow stepping Smash captains or chaplain buffs is really important to continue playing. As is an increase in T7+ with the changes to tanks vs combat.

 

With list building I think those are some key points to think about.

[duz_]

/recites psalms for calculationor-cogitator...

 

I think your numbers are off? 20% less from 2000, should be 1600?

 

 

I'm curious to see how the points adjustments impact RG

Off the top of my head I'd probably drop my Executioner from my current list

Flipside from rules discussions today sounds like RG Airwing could come back as vehicles don't suffer the -1 to hit

Similarly big benefit to Redemptors

 

Also the though of flaming units in CC with my Warsuits :wub: :wub:

 

 

Also I don't know why people keep thinking the Assault Inceptors will be Troops

ASM's are just tac marines with chainswords and their FA, I would assume similar treatment for the new guys

[Dracos]

Sigh. yeah 1,600 points. Well there goes the second Inceptor unit ... less to build and paint , yay? I'll have to catch up on today's reveals before posting about it. 

 

As far as Intercessors? The box set is going to need a Troop type. They could toss in the older Intercessors, but it feels right for the Assault Intercessors as Troops. They would make a poor Elite choice, doubling up the Reiver role, but worse. Assault Marines start base with jump packs this would be opposite. These guys don't have jump packs and I don't expect them to, so kind of a poor Fast choice also. We'll find out this weekend I guess.

 

 

 

As I said this a mental exercise, looking for positive thoughts on reorganizing our armies. It might require a purchase or two, and I think all of us will want to try something out of the new releases but primarily I'm looking to see how we are adjusting to the three factors that are the big game changers ...

 

Command Points

Points Increase

Terrain/Table Size

[Riddlesworth]

After I had also had my cry (having just purchased the last bits for a 2000 point army i was happy with...) - i looked at this as well then quickly gave up. Simple reason being, while intercessors went up 20%, that doesn't represent a 20% increase across the board. Some models may increase more, some less. That's the reason the points are increasing after all, to give more flexibility in balancing point for point (the guardsman/grot/gaunt example).

 

So my prep for 9th is:

- paint as much of my unpainted Primaris as possible (theres a fair bit) but focusing on the models I enjoy the aesthetic of most.

- Buy the 9th box set. swap the necron side for MOWR bikes and melta gravis.

- wait for points changes.

 

For what its worth, i actually think smaller tables with more terrain and better terrain rules may see ravenguard some out on par with where they are now - depending on what deployment tricks everyone else gets access to. 

 

Assault intercessors need to be a LOT better in combat to justify me taking them over incursors...

Edited June 10, 2020 by Riddlesworth

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Most of my Second Company (which is the core of any list I build) fits wholly within 1600pts. I can't take two infiltrator squads, but those are comms relay squads anyway and those are useless without a Phobos LT or Phobos Captain. I have to drop the Auto bolt rifles from my intercessors and go with regular bolt rifles, but that's actually a decent trade-off to get a bit more range out of them.

 

I'd like to claim that this was by design but I cannot. It just happens to fit. I do hope that the Phobos troops were costed with 9th edition in mind, and won't go up. They'd be almoste unusable if they go up in points, because they're already in a tough spot because intercessors damage per point and wounds per point is better even at 20ppm.

[Dracos]

I know the math said otherwise but I was never sold on the auto-bolt rifles. I just prefer having the -2 AP and range, and the point increase never helped.

 

With the rate things are going I’m seriously thinking of starting a new Marine army for 9th. One that can get the most out of the Assault phase. I’m just not sure what direction that’s going to drive me. With higher points, less units, smaller board, and deployment shenanigans that use to be the purview of RG and WS I’m recalibrating which units I want to make my Core. Okay sort of a lie. I want Assault Intercessors and Inceptors to be my Core. Focus Jedi with all those changes, I still think the Assault Phase while owning 4-6, is still going to be mop up time for a player who optimized Turns 1-3. So ..... anxiously awaiting the Daily “Briefing” on the new Terrain Rules.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I know the math said otherwise but I was never sold on the auto-bolt rifles. I just prefer having the -2 AP and range, and the point increase never helped.

 

With the rate things are going I’m seriously thinking of starting a new Marine army for 9th. One that can get the most out of the Assault phase. I’m just not sure what direction that’s going to drive me. With higher points, less units, smaller board, and deployment shenanigans that use to be the purview of RG and WS I’m recalibrating which units I want to make my Core. Okay sort of a lie. I want Assault Intercessors and Inceptors to be my Core. Focus Jedi with all those changes, I still think the Assault Phase while owning 4-6, is still going to be mop up time for a player who optimized Turns 1-3. So ..... anxiously awaiting the Daily “Briefing” on the new Terrain Rules.

I think you're too hung up on the points increases. They are going to be across the board changes for every army.

 

The board changes is "minimum" you can still play on 4x6, and if you play tournaments it'll just be based on that.

 

The biggest changes are to vehicles and terrain from everything we've been told with niche changes in other areas.*

 

Raven guard are in a very strong place. Essentially having the strongest smash captain in the game turn 2-3. For assassinating characters still makes him a top choice regardless of points increases.

 

Assault cents are still brutality powerful and smaller boards = less room to kite them.

 

6 flamer or bolt gun aggressors are still going to be a thing for savage turn 1 charges.

 

And tanks are mo betta.

 

*according to play testers I've listened to. And from GW highlights.

[Kouran]

I think board changes affects us and I guess it's going to be a thing, because all the major tournaments are saying  that they will adapt to the new board dimensions. Is this going to be good or bad for us? I have mixed feelings, on one side our chapter tactic (-1 to hit at 12") is going to be less effective because we will find our enemies closer enough to avoid it a bit sooner . But on the other hand, being the deployment zone shorter means that our movement tricks bring us closer to the enemy beefy targets sooner, so playing aggressive is going to be more rewarding. 

 

What worries me is the hinting that GW has made about all factions being able to outflank and null deploy. That will really be bad to us since it makes our tricks less especial and also permits a good counter to our aggressive tactics.

 

And what I think is going to be better for us are the Flyers, they already said that there is no penalty to move and shoot heavy weapons, and we know that they have rethinked flyers rules to make them more playable, so all this mixed with our chapter tactic (+1 to save as in cover) sound really good for me!

Edited June 11, 2020 by Kouran

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I think board changes affects us and I guess it's going to be a thing, because all the major tournaments are saying that they will adapt to the new board dimensions. Is this going to be good or bad for us? I have mixed feelings, on one side our chapter tactic (-1 to hit at 12") is going to be less effective because we will find our enemies closer enough to avoid it a bit sooner . But on the other hand, being the deployment zone shorter means that our movement tricks bring us closer to the enemy beefy targets sooner, so playing aggressive is going to be more rewarding.

 

What worries me is the hinting that GW has made about all factions being able to outflank and null deploy. That will really be bad to us since it makes our tricks less especial and also permits a good counter to our aggressive tactics.

 

And what I think is going to be better for us are the Flyers, they already said that there is no penalty to move and shoot heavy weapons, and we know that they have rethinked flyers rules to make them more playable, so all this mixed with our chapter tactic (+1 to save as in cover) sound really good for me!

Null deployment and outflank just makes infiltrators more important. It's basically going to take us back to 5th edition where spreading out scout movement forces your opponent's movement. Infiltrators are especially stronger as you can be more centralized in your deployment to negate coming in from board edges.

 

The smaller table size is a nerf to both portions of the chapter tactic, but with fewer models on the board depending on lists etc feels like a push to me.

 

We won't know until games are played.

 

In general marines are in a pretty good place. Imperial fists and Iron Hands lists are taking the biggest hit to turn 1. As being able to null deploy and changes to terrain features essentially takes away huge portions of their super doctrine, which was already handicapped with the eratta. Raven Guard are still going to be able to use most of their shenanigans all game, and being able to pin point AV guns to counter the new hotness seems really good. Granted I'm speculating, but I think Raven Guard may still prove to be one of the strongest Astartes this edition.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I know the math said otherwise but I was never sold on the auto-bolt rifles. I just prefer having the -2 AP and range, and the point increase never helped.

 

I think that the 6" loss of range, and reliable shot output was a solid choice for 1ppm. I'm not hurting for heavy weapons, so mobility is my main concern.

 

 

With the rate things are going I’m seriously thinking of starting a new Marine army for 9th. One that can get the most out of the Assault phase. I’m just not sure what direction that’s going to drive me. With higher points, less units, smaller board, and deployment shenanigans that use to be the purview of RG and WS I’m recalibrating which units I want to make my Core. Okay sort of a lie. I want Assault Intercessors and Inceptors to be my Core. Focus Jedi with all those changes, I still think the Assault Phase while owning 4-6, is still going to be mop up time for a player who optimized Turns 1-3. So ..... anxiously awaiting the Daily “Briefing” on the new Terrain Rules.

I think you're way too focused on points hikes, and table size changes. Sure those are huge things for a tournament player, but I don't believe those necessarily hurt RG as much as you think it will.

 

It will make a huge difference in things like SftS where a 9" shunt on a close range assault unit like Aggressors or Assault Centurions will make a huge impact.

[Riddlesworth]

Null deployment and outflank just makes infiltrators more important. It's basically going to take us back to 5th edition where spreading out scout movement forces your opponent's movement. Infiltrators are especially stronger as you can be more centralized in your deployment to negate coming in from board edges.

.

This has been said elsewhere and ears repeating. The more deployment tricks available to everyone, the more valuable infiltrators become. Incursors too, but infiltrators more

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Infiltrators are one of my bread and butter units. I really like what they can do, even if they aren't the killiest unit around. I think that incursors are the more deadly unit, while Incercessors are very killy.

[superwill]

I’m really hopeful that flyers will be back and playable. Ever since that one glorious double-paged photo of a RG thunderhawk I’ve always wanted to run an air cavalry list, but planes have just been too glass cannon and easy to shoot off the board in my experience. I love the look of some of the FW planes in particular and have three Xiphons and three Fire Raptors (all bought after their nerfs tyvm Edited June 12, 2020 by superwill

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Here's the thing about Null deployment from the past.

 

In 5th edition you ran the risk of being tabled turn 1 if you went full null deploy.

 

Because people would use their scout and infiltrator moves to choke the board from being able to come in from reserves.

 

Now, if people put their big damage output units in reserve or at least some of them, their focus has to be on killing things like troops that block out with a 9/12" bubble. With the change to terrain this is going to be more difficult if said unit is obscured or blocked by LoS changes.

 

Meaning going first has the advantage of setting up and scoring primary objectives for max points forcing turn 2 player to play catch up.

 

Now, this is based on if they are all allowed to outflank turn 1 or if they have to wait until turn 2. Unlike deep strike reinforcements which can come in from any game turn, however drop pod armies aren't turning too many heads at the moment.

 

But in either case you can prepare and dictate where units are able to be deployed, or force the opponent to delay their reserves until later turns.

 

Being able to redeploy units, and deep strike or sling shot sneaky boys forward gives Raven Guard a clear advantage to anything other armies can do,, outside of those that have similar abilities.

[duz_]

Since they ruled out null deploy early in 8th because of gamey shenanigans I doubt we'll see a return of it in 9th

I still expect to see the 50% requirement there just more units will have access to outflank or deep strike via strats and other game mechanics

 

 

I think flyers got a good buff with the ignoring movement penalty especially flyers that already got a +1 to hit of moving

My RG fliers could hit the table again :D

Now to finish that Storm Eagle :ermm:

Edited June 12, 2020 by duz_

[superwill]

Nothing in the preview tonight about flyers that we didn't already know, but at least no news is good news. My biggest question is will they be able to start off the board (I'm assuming they will if just about every unit can) and will the strategic reserves previewed tonight mean that they can arrive anywhere they want from turn two? If so, that's sweet.

 

I wonder if the planes who had POTMS will see a slight reduction in points (after scaling) now that it's across the board?

[Dracos]

One RG buff will be in cover stacking another +1 on the Sv. 1+ for Intercessors, 0+ for Eliminators, with a -1 to hit. On the other hand the board size would seem to make the +12" range for Shadowmasters less effective. I could forgive all the alt-nerfs I feel that are watering down what is special about RG mechanics could be forgiven if they changed it to 9+ :) (sorry I'll stop wishlisting)

[duz_]

They mentioned the other day that PotMS and other similar abilities will be reworked due to the changes to vehicles and moving

So I doubt a points reduction I am curious as to what the alternative would be though

[Jacques Corbin]

Eager to see what the new blast rules do for my Thunderfire Cannons. Gonna be sad when a Primaris version inevitably comes out, but will immediately buy two.

 

Also intrigued about the new terrain rules, and cover versus melee attacks. Will Incursors and Reivers get bonuses for fighting in cover?

 

Also, the new terrain and cover rules make the Phobos Librarian look more attractive, because he can infiltrate, gain the most benefit from terrain, but deals mortal wounds that you cannot save against outside some sort of FNP.

[thewarriorhunter]

My preps for 9th include the starter box x2 :D Honestly I've been focused less on rules and more on models.

 

I found a local who wants to go in on two since he wants all the cron-goodness. I plan on selling off the extra HQs and am hoping the assault troops get's jump packs so I can have some printed and get jump troops out of them.

 

I'm also excited about my Xiphon and want to get that finished because fliers sound like they'll be fun and not as cheesy. My backlog is not horrible so I don't mind picking up the starter boxes and sinking my teeth into the new rules. The Buggy is the hardest model for me to like and I think my problem is that the pintel gun only has a forward firing arc. I'm thinking of how I can build a circular frame around it so the gun can swivel 360 because that seems like how that type of weapon should operate.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

With the new models that have been revealed, I'm sort of changing my tune a bit. The  servoturret looks like it will be a needed addition, especially with the twin lastalon option, using our alternate deployment shenanigans we'll be able to get it up the field and in position to threaten things sooner, which is good news for my infantry heavy style of play.

 

The ATV looks like it will be a solid choice for mobile horde deletion, with the onslaught cannon perched on top.

 

The stuff in the box, is all great for me. I want two of the bike squads, two of the eradicators, and two of the bladeguard.