Thoughts on Prepping for 9e

[SkimaskMohawk]

Also worth noting that fragstorm launchers are blast. So a notably undercosted unit goes up 8 points, but also gets a significant buff vs larger units...

 

I'm calling that a buff to aggressors rather than a nerf.

[defl0]

Lots of good thoughts there.

 

I've always been interested in Plasma Intercessors (Hellblasters I assume?) too. I just think it's a cool squad and frankly even with the points drops for Inceptors I am leery of running them when you lose a T5 3w model on an unmodified 1. Too lazy to do the math but at the end of the day I think it'll depend on points values. I do like the idea of being able to use stratagems/warlord traits to get them into range on the first turn without having to run a 6-man squad and buy an Impulsor.

 

I like the Obscuration Librarian in theory but I think his biggest downfall is his abilities only target Phobos units, and none of them are really strong enough to maximize the benefits. Shrouding, ok, maybe good on a squad of Infiltrators holding an objective, but I really want to put it on my Aggressors, right? Same with Soul Sight, just doesn't seem worth a 100+pt HQ and psychic test to give 10 bolters ignore cover and +1 to hit.

 

See But Remain Unseen on an action-taking unit does seem sweet. Sounds like something they will errata though maybe. Assault Terminators, cool but they can't charge consistently out of deep strike, though you could orchestrate something with Canticles of Hate and a CP re-roll if you have a Bike Chaplain or one using MoA.

 

What changed to improve Stormtalons?

 

Why Intercessors with MoA instead of Aggressors? Because of Objective Secured?

So could things.

 

- with a reroll, you lose an interior 1/36 shots... So with 3, 1 every 12 times they shoot. I can love with that.

 

- storm talons can move and shoot without penalty now. So they are natively hitting on 2+ now, which is basically better than just about anything else RG can field. Plus they will have a 2+ armor save and -1 to hit and lots of guns. It's just a very efficient model for us.

 

- assault intercessors are just a huge block of wounds that hit pretty hard. They are probably not a better pick than aggressors, but the few games I've played has kinda proven to me that you want units pinning your opponent in their deployment zone and tagging things like tanks. In a 5 turn game, just shutting units down and not letting them move is more importantly than killing them. So something like assault intercessors might just turn out better than something like Aggressors. They kinda pay the edition better.

 

- assault terminators have lots of ways to make that charge. For one, you have a strat for a re roll, plus you have things like the Chaplain. Also with terrain, you might just want to start then in the board, especially if you run the WLT for advance and charge.

 

- As for shrouding, making a unit untargetable is really big if your plan is to win primary or at a minimum, hold 2.

[Sergeant_Angle]

Also worth noting that fragstorm launchers are blast. So a notably undercosted unit goes up 8 points, but also gets a significant buff vs larger units...

 

I'm calling that a buff to aggressors rather than a nerf.

I haven't built my box of Agressors yet. So I guess bolstorm/frogstorm is the way to go

[MajorNese]

Storm talons are interesting indeed. We have all seen how ridicuously good they became with IH, ignoring the to-hit penalty for moving. Now we do the same, but with 2+ armour instead of FnP, which is rather clearly in our favor. We have to wait for FW rules to be updated (I think GW indended to release that closely after the edition fully dropped), there might be some more options in that direction - Xiphon, Storm Eagle, Fire Raptor,...

 

I for one hope that my LandSpeeder Tempests become as usable as they should have been all along, without being raised above Predator points level again.

 

frogstorm is the way to go

Best typo of the day - now try to imagine what that would look like...

[Sergeant_Angle]

 

frogstorm is the way to go

Best typo of the day - now try to imagine what that would look like...

Something like this...

 

[duz_]

I haven't built my box of Agressors yet. So I guess bolstorm/frogstorm is the way to go

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Edited July 21, 2020 by duz_

[WAR]

LOL 

[thewarriorhunter]

I commented in my PLOG that I finally found points for FW and apparently the Xiphon got 20 points cheaper and is 220 now. I'm very happy about that and can't wait to get mine painted up.

[Alcyon]

 

So could things.

 

- with a reroll, you lose an interior 1/36 shots... So with 3, 1 every 12 times they shoot. I can love with that.

 

- storm talons can move and shoot without penalty now. So they are natively hitting on 2+ now, which is basically better than just about anything else RG can field. Plus they will have a 2+ armor save and -1 to hit and lots of guns. It's just a very efficient model for us.

 

- assault intercessors are just a huge block of wounds that hit pretty hard. They are probably not a better pick than aggressors, but the few games I've played has kinda proven to me that you want units pinning your opponent in their deployment zone and tagging things like tanks. In a 5 turn game, just shutting units down and not letting them move is more importantly than killing them. So something like assault intercessors might just turn out better than something like Aggressors. They kinda pay the edition better.

 

- assault terminators have lots of ways to make that charge. For one, you have a strat for a re roll, plus you have things like the Chaplain. Also with terrain, you might just want to start then in the board, especially if you run the WLT for advance and charge.

 

- As for shrouding, making a unit untargetable is really big if your plan is to win primary or at a minimum, hold 2.

 

 

Important to note they have Blast now, so if they shoot at a unit with more than 5 models they get six shots each, giving each model a 1/6.25 (16%) chance of death each time they fire even with re-roll 1s. If you run them with a Chapter Master (like Shrike I was intending to), it's a 1/3.4 (29%) per model. Even without the blast rule it's still rough, 2d3 gives you an 11% chance of death (~1/10) or 20% with a Chapter Master. There's a good article on Goonhammer here: https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-weapon-changes-in-9th-edition/ I've been pretty leery of them for that reason - I think you really want your overcharging to happen on models with the lowest cost per model and ideally the lowest number of shots, so you can spread out the risk. Accordingly I'm looking at Hellblasters again for smaller games even though their points cost per model is high and they have 2w.

 

Stormtalons definitely an interesting option I hadn't been considering! I forgot their Strafing Run rule, and now they are much stronger against units that do have Fly, hitting them on 3+ instead of 4+. Might have to pick one up myself...

 

Re: Assault Intercessors, definitely an interesting point, I mean I think a lot of those benefits still apply to regular Intercessors, they can definitely charge as well especially as Veterans now that we have more CP, plus they have more of an option to reach out and touch someone with their -1 AP. But I'm getting some in Indomitus anyway, might just superglue the backpacks on in case Primaris jump packs come out.

 

I wonder if Assault Terminators will get that updated Storm Shield rule the Indomitus guys have, ignoring AP1 would be pretty big for them I think and help justify doubling up the 4+ and 5+ invulns. 

 

Your point on Shrouding is well-taken too. Worth noting you'll need another unit closer for the power to work, so maybe there's some combination of a screen, supported by the Librarian, and an objective-taking Phobos squad (Infiltrators for the deep strike denial). Still a lot of moving parts to make it work but definitely possible. Might even make it interesting to run some Reivers because they can deep-strike and benefit from Temporal Corridor after that.

[Riddlesworth]

Worth pointing out that a 3 man squad of plasmaceptors puts out the same shot volume as a 3 man unit of bolterceptors against a unit with 6+ models. At +2S and 2 more points of AP.

 

The fzct that they can then overcharge for the S8 and D2 makes them a lot more versatile now they're at a very attractive price point

 

The stuff in the box, is all great for me. I want two of the bike squads, two of the eradicators, and two of the bladeguard.

Doesnt everyone :)

 

I love everything about the Bladeguard. Except the unit size. They compete with aggressors for deployment resource but until they can be a 5 man squad, incant see the place for them, which is a shame because the models are AMAZING.

 

Outriders though, they are money

Edited July 21, 2020 by Riddlesworth

[Riddlesworth]

Double post Edited July 21, 2020 by Riddlesworth

[Dracos]

Well poo. I was thinking plasma inceptors but not sure I like those odds. Might use those points/mission role with Stormtalons. Suddenly picturing Shrike flying around the battlefield escorted by couple Stormtalons?

[Riddlesworth]

Well poo. I was thinking plasma inceptors but not sure I like those odds. Might use those points/mission role with Stormtalons. Suddenly picturing Shrike flying around the battlefield escorted by couple Stormtalons?

They make an excellent escort for the biker chaplain

[Dracos]

Genius

[Alcyon]

The Biker Chaplain can no longer give them safe plasma as unmodified rolls of 1 always fail. The Captain re-roll is now safest (though doesn't put out as many shots as the Chapter Master). It's my guess that Plasmaceptors got cheaper specifically because plasma saw this nerf and because they now put out more shots with the Blast rule - overcharging them puts them at significant risk.

[Riddlesworth]

The Biker Chaplain can no longer give them safe plasma as unmodified rolls of 1 always fail. The Captain re-roll is now safest (though doesn't put out as many shots as the Chapter Master). It's my guess that Plasmaceptors got cheaper specifically because plasma saw this nerf and because they now put out more shots with the Blast rule - overcharging them puts them at significant risk.

While the captain reroll is the safest. Let's just check in with what a biker chaplain does for them. Master of sanctity and wise orator is assumed.

 

- +1 to hit is good. Doesn't make plasma safe anymore but hitting on 2s with plasma is very good. 18 S7 AP-3 D1 shots against 6+ model units is real good. Against sub 6 models, averaging 10 hits out of 3 guys is strong

- the second litany either makes the chaplain a super threatening deterrent (mantra of strength) or has them wounding T7 on 2s, T8 on 3s when overcharging

- they can hit combat with 4 attacks each, fall back, shoot and charge again with the chapter specific litany. Who needs white scars tactics?

 

 

They can still do the suicide deep strike thing. But if you've got enough other threats on the board (MoA aggressors, invictors, sfts/MoA/infiltrate Bladeguard) I think the choice between bolter inceptor, plasma inceptor and outriders is a pretty tough one

Edited July 21, 2020 by Riddlesworth

[Dracos]

I was talking bout the Chaplain on Bike escorted by Stormtalons :)

[Alcyon]

I'm off Inceptors completely. If I was playing actual RG and not a successor I'd run Shrike and Bolterceptors since they're the perfect/only retinue for a Primaris CM with a jump pack, but I've never liked the flight stands (my Suppressors are a pain in the ass!) and I think the poses are silly. Glad to have an excuse not to buy any. If you like them though, power to you, they're definitely cheap now for their potential output. 

 

Given that Outriders are such a similar unit but more tilted towards combat, I'm really leaning into the Bike Chaplain, I think Catechism of Fire is big for the Bolt Rifles (though it's insane they didn't give them Assault instead of Rapid Fire.) Canticle of Hate plus Swift and Deadly means a turn 1 charge isn't out of the question either. Deploy at 9" plus 14" move, 6" advance, 9" charge on average is 38". If they deploy at the end of their DZ, you're in, especially if you run Hungry for Battle. If you happen to be charging in the vicinity of Aggressors, Terminators, Bladeguard whatever, especially with Bellowing Firebrand, you can get some exploding Power Fist hits with Exhortation of Rage, and Canticle of Hate could buff their charges too. Might even run two Chaplains.

[WAR]

Yeah im ditching the new flight stands in favor of debris strewn bases on my suppressors and inceptors

[thewarriorhunter]

I used brass rod for my first round of inceptors and was less than trilled. I bought some acrylic rod and magnets to see if I can create my own version of the Magnet Barron flight stands a go. Makes transporting them in foam a lot easier as well.

[Dracos]

I had to rebase 2 of the 5 Bolter Inceptors in my first unit. The terrain bits from the Eliminators works really well. Easy pin job. Not sure what I'm doing with the second batch. I really would like a third Plasma squad but with potentially 30 shots blowing an Inceptor up once per turn even with Shrike providing rerolls makes me cring. No wonder points went down. Which strangely has me math-hammering a Duel-Stormtalon/Shrike combo? 

 

Bikes squad maxing at 3 models isn't helping any though. Hardly any Look Out Sir protection for the Chaplain on the Bike. 

 

I really need to just chill til Battlescribe gets the points for 9e rolling. As it is the only Indomitus model I see myself really auto-including is the Battle Guard Lieutenant and adding the Outrider Chaplain.

[Riddlesworth]

Id add the LT over the captain if i didn't teally dislike the model. Dude has a sword snd shield. I wanna see the sword

 

Just seen a picture of multipart bladeguard. If that multipart kit makes them 3-6 I may have to invest

Edited July 22, 2020 by Riddlesworth

[Sergeant_Angle]

How do you guys feel about running sternguard with the base special bolters? I love the lore of them being icy-veined marksman machines. But I don't know how well it'll translate to the table top (I never played 8th ed)

Edited July 22, 2020 by Sergeant_Angle

[duz_]

Sternguard were great in in 7th

Im not sure I used them in 8th, maybe kmce

They were relatively expensive and very squishy for what they did

 

Maybe with points adjustments they might have more of a niche

It's a shame though I have 15 of them and the base bolters seem to have potential but you do have a to build a strategy around them

[Sergeant_Angle]

Sternguard were great in in 7th

Im not sure I used them in 8th, maybe kmce

They were relatively expensive and very squishy for what they did

 

Maybe with points adjustments they might have more of a niche

It's a shame though I have 15 of them and the base bolters seem to have potential but you do have a to build a strategy around them

I am leaning towards more fluffy lists, which is why i want to include them. But I also don't want to get crushed all the time for being fluffy. Need to try and make a good balance.

 

EDIT: 5 with their special bolters are 85 pts now

Edited July 22, 2020 by Sergeant_Angle