Thoughts on Prepping for 9e

[Dracos]

I can only imagine the Reivers will have same rule for their heavy boot pistol Duz. :)

 

 

 

Trying to see if I can come up with an assault Raven Guard build for new army. Conventional thinking would say Blood Angels or Black Templar. Thing is we’ve seen more than one BA player in the forum using RG for a tournament army ... and Templars (God love em) can’t seem to get any real love.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

17% smaller armies makes me happy. Smaller tables smaller armies makes for more efficient games and it won't take all day to play a game.

[Riddlesworth]

I want two Infiltrator units instead of Incursors. The two Inceptors units can handle the heavy Dakka.

 

As much as I think infiltrators will be worth their points hike and then some with smaller tables and reserve shenanigans, I still think incursors will be my go to for a battalion because of the combat aspect and because ignoring cover benefits is going to mean more

 

Bolter inceptors dropping points is awesome.

3 Plasma inceptors becoming cheaper than 5 hellblasters is AMAZING. 150 points per unit is just money

[thewarriorhunter]

I picked up a Kill Team board off ebay so I now have two. I'll probably play one or two combat patrol games against myself this weekend so I can walk through the rules step by step. I'll build points out to 8th edition but since it's a learning game I don't think it will matter that much.

[duz_]

I was thinking the same think TWH I have a couple those KT boxes I bought for models and terrain now I can use the boards too! Good thing I didn't offload them like I had attempted to :D

[Dracos]

I like how you guys are looking to test the game as we move forward. I was think about buying a half-mat from frontline gaming to do the same. They way I play I usually start with a mirror deployment in mind, adjusting as we alternate units. I’m curious to see what the standard is for deploying in 9e. Bad deployment = auto lose, good deployment = having a chance ;)

[thewarriorhunter]

For me there won't be any strategy or tactics as the sides won't be equal. Raven Guard will be oldmarines with Inceptors and a Land Raider, Spectral Sicarii will be Primaris, Redemptor, and oldmarines in a drop pod. I think I should have almost every keyword on the field except TITANIC so I should be able to try out most things. Also if anyone wants to do the same Loopy from Masters of the Forge posted an abbreviated rundown on terrain rules in a Discord server I'm in since the embargo was lifted. Obstacles and Area Terrain can have Traits applied to them, Hills and Buildings cannot.

 
Terrain Categories
* Hills
  - Move up and down them
  - Provide LOS blocking, but no save
* Obstacles
  - Move up and down but not through
  - Infantry, beast, or swarm MODELS get cover from obstacles if they are within 3”
* Area Terrain
  - Has a footprint (determine before game begins if it doesn’t have a physical one)
  - Move up and down over it as normal.
  - Infantry, beast, or swarm MODELS get cover (whatever that means for the terrain traits the terrain has) while within it
* Buildings
  - Count as units
  - Can’t move across
 

Terrain Traits
* Defensible
  - Hold Steady or set to defend if within 3” of the terrain and, if you draw a line between the Closest two models in either unit you cross the terrain feature.
* Defence Line
  - Charge a unit within 1” of the feature
  - Fight if enemy within 2” if fighting across it.
* Breachable
  - Infantry, Beast, swarm can move through walls, girders, chains, and foliage
* Difficult Ground
  - -2 to normal move, advance, fall back, or charge unless you have fly
* Dense Cover
  - Feature at least 3” high
  - -1 to hit a unit unless that unit has at least one model hanging in the wind.
  - Doesn’t apply if you’re shooting through your own terrain feature '
  - Doesn’t apply to Aircraft or units with 18+ Wounds
* Unstable Position
  - Models can’t stand on it
* Exposed Position
  - No cover if you’re on it (but can if you’re behind it and you normally would get cover)
* Obscuring
  - At least 5” high
  - Blocks visibility unless the models are on it or within it
  - Doesn’t apply to Aircraft and units with 18+ wounds
* Light Cover
  - If providing cover as per the Terrain category, provides +1 cover save to models in shooting.
* Heavy Cover
  - If providing cover as per the Terrain category, provides +1 cover save to models in combat.
* Scaleable
  - Infantry, beasts, swarms can climb it and move through floors
* Inspiring
  - +1 Ld wholly within 6”

[Alcyon]

Trying to see if I can come up with an assault Raven Guard build for new army. Conventional thinking would say Blood Angels or Black Templar. Thing is we’ve seen more than one BA player in the forum using RG for a tournament army ... and Templars (God love em) can’t seem to get any real love.

 

I think the real advantage we have is Master of Ambush and the ability to get Aggressors into combat on the first turn - a full move shoot and charge on turn 1 is something fairly unique, so I would build around supporting that unit as much as possible. A good complement would probably be Vanguard Veterans using the Infiltrators stratagem to move up board pre-turn 1 or Strike from the Skies, and a Smash Captain or Chaplain with Raven's Fury to advance really far; if you start the Chaplain on board turn 1, you can use Canticles of Hate to improve all nearby units' charge distances. Infiltrators/Incursors etc. would be good ranged support since they can start up the board. Also Shrike obviously. It's extremely firstborn/jumppack focused but there it is.

[Dracos]

Mmmm Shrike in a dark red scheme. Very interesting.

[Jacques Corbin]

Astartes Chainswords are AP-1 AND still rant one more attack?! SWEEEEEEEEETTT!!! I think I will keep the heavy bolt pistols, unless it later lets you take 3 plasma pistols per unit. Also, power weapon options on the Sergeants would be great.

 

How do we get them into melee? I mean, what is the advantage of paying CP to infiltrate them, when I can drop Incursors for no CP? I can almost see sending them up in an impulsor to jump out into terrain, or to breach terrain held by an enemy.

 

How about those Eradicators? Gravis and 24" melta, that can shoot twice if whole units only shoots one enemy unit. I will definitely sneak them into position. Like imagine sneaking them up on a Riptide. Two shielded missile drones will take a lot of the first round of shooting, but that Riptide will be wide open for the second round. Or, infiltrate the Eradicators, and drop in Bolter Inceptors. Let the Inceptors shoot the drones, and the Eradicators deal with the Riptide. I wonder if an Apothecary is now worth it?

 

How about that drop turret? I like the idea of a drop in beach head. Heavy Flamers sound good, but, they will be blast, so cannot be fired at engagement range. It will pair nicely with my Thunderfire Cannons. Rain artillery on my enemies, and drop the turret in where I make a hole, ideally close to an objective. Not just artillery, but move in Incursors and an Invictor Warsuit and just breach and clear an opponent's flank.

 

Yeah! Lieutenebris and bolter Inceptors dropping in on turn two or even three. In a perfect world, there would be a Primaris Techmarine that I could put in a Impulsor with 5 other marines, and zip over to the turret. The only thing is that the deployment of the Impulsor would telegraph potential drop sites for the turret, based on where the Impulsor can reach in one movement. Or, pair the Techmarine with a Librarian, and teleport him to the turret. How hard will that turret be to dig out if it keeps getting repaired?

 

Now, can I make a list where I can play the midfield like I really like to, but also breach and sweep an opponent's flank, and still have elements to hold my own deployment zone??

[Jacques Corbin]

Brothers! They revealed a Chaplain on a bike, and a Primaris Techmarine! Bike aren't usually our thing, but that is a gorgeous model. That Techmarine has an axe and a shoulder-mounted Heavy Bolter. Also, not usually our thing, but...

 

This makes a strong case for Invictor Warsuits with the Autocannon, because we can sneak that Techmarine into position right behind him.

 

Or, hell, just sneak him in behind a Incendium Cannon Invictor Warsuit (or 2), and let them get up close and personal.

 

Or how about dropping the Hammerfall Turret in near a Primaris Techmarine in the midfield? Just the fact that if it is not destroyed in 1 shooting phase, it will be repaired, will cause most players to devote more firepower than is necessary to destroy it.

[jpwyrm]

Yeah, that chaplain on bike will certainly fond it's way into my list - it will replace the jump pack chaplain I usually field. He might not have all the flexibility afforded by the Fly keyword, but the additional toughness and wound will make it worthwhile I recon.

 

Techmarine with Master of the Machine (+1 to hit for vehicles in 6") will be awesome for Invictors Warsuits with autocannon. Two of those along with two Wirlwhind could form a solid backfield base with a nice counter assault potential too.

[thewarriorhunter]

I'm torn because none of the new releases fit the 'sneaky' theme of RG/Raptors but I also know that GW writers have stated they regret how they've written Alpha Legion and RG into a stereotyped 'only sneaky sneaky stuff' role.

[Jacques Corbin]

I'm torn because none of the new releases fit the 'sneaky' theme of RG/Raptors but I also know that GW writers have stated they regret how they've written Alpha Legion and RG into a stereotyped 'only sneaky sneaky stuff' role.

Exactly! There is a movie called Quigley Down Under where a notorious American shootist is hired by a wealthy Australian landowner. Throughout the film, Quigley uses a long rifle, and never fails to impress. However, at the end of the film, the villain strips Quigley of his rifle, and gives Quigley a pistol to live out the villian's own fantasy of killing an American cowboy in a quick draw gun fight. Well, our hero is quicker on the draw, and points out that just because he prefers using a rifle, that does not mean he is not good with a pistol.

 

Much the same with the Raven Guard. Just because we prefer stealth and asymmetrical warfare, does not mean we are ineffective at conventional symmetrical warfare. In fact, if a proper Take All Comers list is made, it will allow for many different situations.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Jacques Corbin

[Riddlesworth]

My army was already led by a chaplain.

He will be replaced by the bike chaplain. 2CP for master of sanctity and wise orator.

 

Benediction of fury, mantra of strength, canticle of hate.

 

If he gets the same charge rule as the bikes; S7, 8A, AP-2, 4D on the charge. Which is, on average 9 inches...on top of a 14 inch move.

Swift and deadly on those bikes/inceptors sure would be nice, but master of ambush will be needed elsewhere. It's a real shame he can't have Imperium's Sword and Wise Orator, because that would just top it off

Edited July 4, 2020 by Riddlesworth

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Would you do khorne red rather than Mephiston for that darker scheme alongside the black armor?

 

I think there's going to be a lot of keen units for RG going forward.

[Dracos]

I like Dragon Red from Army Painter.

 

I’m with Riddlesworth on the Chappie Bike HQ but I also want <Shrike> dropping with the 5 Plasma-ceptors

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I like Dragon Red from Army Painter.

 

I’m with Riddlesworth on the Chappie Bike HQ but I also want <Shrike> dropping with the 5 Plasma-ceptors

Too many melted models using Army Painter sprays.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

My army was already led by a chaplain.

He will be replaced by the bike chaplain. 2CP for master of sanctity and wise orator.

 

Benediction of fury, mantra of strength, canticle of hate.

 

If he gets the same charge rule as the bikes; S7, 8A, AP-2, 4D on the charge. Which is, on average 9 inches...on top of a 14 inch move.

Swift and deadly on those bikes/inceptors sure would be nice, but master of ambush will be needed elsewhere. It's a real shame he can't have Imperium's Sword and Wise Orator, because that would just top it off

That is quite the Slaplin!  

[WAR]

Bike chaplain maybe raptors, techmarine in raptors yes.

[thewarriorhunter]

I like Dragon Red from Army Painter.

 

I’m with Riddlesworth on the Chappie Bike HQ but I also want <Shrike> dropping with the 5 Plasma-ceptors

I plan on getting some Bolt-Ceptors done, with Plasma always failing on 1's now I feel like Plasma is not worth the points if not overcharging, or the risk if overcharging. They were already super expensive in 8th so I can only imagine them getting jacked up for 9th (I haven't looked at points leaks).

[Riddlesworth]

I plan on getting some Bolt-Ceptors done, with Plasma always failing on 1's now I feel like Plasma is not worth the points if not overcharging, or the risk if overcharging. They were already super expensive in 8th so I can only imagine them getting jacked up for 9th (I haven't looked at points leaks).

Plasceptors got cheaper (150 for min unit). Hellblasters stayed the same (165 min unit. All variants)

[MajorNese]

That techmarine does look nice. And the bunker, once I removed the fins and maybe the burrowing mechanic, and made it a regular bunker. Couple that with a few Tarantulas, and my requirements for backfield lead-throwers might be fulfilled.

 

The regular bikers are great, but the chaplain? At least the big book looks rather too much, if that dude can be assembled/converted without it, that would work for me.

 

Otherwise I'll wait until the edition hits fully, including all rules and wargear changes. There were quite a few wargear changes in the box set profiles, so I expect more overhaul when it's all released.

[Jacques Corbin]

That techmarine does look nice. And the bunker, once I removed the fins and maybe the burrowing mechanic, and made it a regular bunker. Couple that with a few Tarantulas, and my requirements for backfield lead-throwers might be fulfilled.

 

The regular bikers are great, but the chaplain? At least the big book looks rather too much, if that dude can be assembled/converted without it, that would work for me.

 

Otherwise I'll wait until the edition hits fully, including all rules and wargear changes. There were quite a few wargear changes in the box set profiles, so I expect more overhaul when it's all released.

What about the gun emplacements that were previously previewed? The one that is a marine sitting behind either twin Accelerator Autocannons or Twin Lastalons. Also, if overwatch costs 1CP, what will be the big draw of the Accelerator Autocannons? Y'know, besides making Tau players weep...

[Dracos]

The regular bikers are great, but the chaplain? At least the big book looks rather too much, if that dude can be assembled/converted without it, that would work for me.

Pretty much my thoughts on the Chap. I think it looks terrific but the book is a little OTT for myself. Until we get a Bike or Inceptor Captain though, I can’t imagine any other HQ being my first choice.