Thoughts on Prepping for 9e

[Jacques Corbin]

Just had a thought. How about that biker Chaplain riding alongside the ATV? Is Catechism of Fire wasted on it? Does the ATV pack a regular or heavy onslaught gatling?

[superwill]

My army was already led by a chaplain.

He will be replaced by the bike chaplain. 2CP for master of sanctity and wise orator.

 

Benediction of fury, mantra of strength, canticle of hate.

 

If he gets the same charge rule as the bikes; S7, 8A, AP-2, 4D on the charge. Which is, on average 9 inches...on top of a 14 inch move.

Swift and deadly on those bikes/inceptors sure would be nice, but master of ambush will be needed elsewhere. It's a real shame he can't have Imperium's Sword and Wise Orator, because that would just top it off

I was just about to say Imperium’s Sword and saw you mentioned it at the end. I was doing some similar spitballing yesterday and reckon it’s hard to pick between them. Making it 9A S8 -2AP 4D is pretty massive - will basically be +1 to wound against T4, 7 and 8 which are three of the most common in the game, plus the bonus attack.

 

It’s such a shame you can’t use a command reroll for litanies anymore. If you could I would definitely go Imperiums Sword, but as it stands I reckon WO is probably better if you’re upgrading to MoS and IS is probably better if you’re not.

[thewarriorhunter]

If the Chaplain bike sprue is based off the Outriders the book might come as a separate bit. The top of the fairing also looks flat on the Outriders so at worst it could probably be trimmed and filed off.

[Riddlesworth]

I was just about to say Imperium’s Sword and saw you mentioned it at the end. I was doing some similar spitballing yesterday and reckon it’s hard to pick between them. Making it 9A S8 -2AP 4D is pretty massive - will basically be +1 to wound against T4, 7 and 8 which are three of the most common in the game, plus the bonus attack.

It’s such a shame you can’t use a command reroll for litanies anymore. If you could I would definitely go Imperiums Sword, but as it stands I reckon WO is probably better if you’re upgrading to MoS and IS is probably better if you’re not.

If you were planning on litanies in 8th supporting your strategy, you were going to spend at.least 1CP over the course of a 5 turn game for a reroll so wise orator at worst broke even. Now you can,'t use command reroll for litanies (didn't know about that change...), I feel like Wise orator is an absolute no brainer if you're taking a chaplain.

 

Adding that mantra of strength means he's popping centurions on a failed save and I'm all in on WO.

 

The folks.over in the white scars forum have got very excited about running the biker chaplain with 9 outriders and giving them reroll.to hit and reroll.to wound on their silly number of attacks.

[MajorNese]

 

What about the gun emplacements that were previously previewed? The one that is a marine sitting behind either twin Accelerator Autocannons or Twin Lastalons. Also, if overwatch costs 1CP, what will be the big draw of the Accelerator Autocannons? Y'know, besides making Tau players weep...

Yep, totally forgot about those 8.8 emplacements. Those would work for me too, again with some battle damage/sandbags/camo netting. I'll just wait for all of it to drop including rules, and then sort out what can be fashioned into a list fitting my playstyle.

 

Munitorum Field Manual and Chapter Approved were also announced a few hours ago, meaning there might be quite a bit of rebalancing. As I've said, I won't commit to models/units before knowing the full picture. At least I found someone to split the box with, so I'll get at least one set of the new marines. The bikes will be awesome, the rest, well, might come handy.

 

If the Chaplain bike sprue is based off the Outriders the book might come as a separate bit. The top of the fairing also looks flat on the Outriders so at worst it could probably be trimmed and filed off.

The way 3D modeling works, it can be made in any way that makes the chains/book look best. But yes, as long as the entire book isn't modeled on, the area can be filled/filed to be flat.

[Dracos]

Okay dumb question. If the Chaplain is your Warlord can they not also use a Stratagem to get both Wise Orator and Sword of the Imperium? I thought for sure I had used BattleScribe and used a Master of Sanctity using WO and MoA.

 

 

Pretty sure those WS players are going to be disappointed. Max unit of 3 for Primaris Bikes so far. At T5 and W4 I don’t see them getting bulked out. Like the Eliminators, they’re just too good at 3 to expand them any higher.

[Riddlesworth]

Okay dumb question. If the Chaplain is your Warlord can they not also use a Stratagem to get both Wise Orator and Sword of the Imperium? I thought for sure I had used BattleScribe and used a Master of Sanctity using WO and MoA.

Pretty sure those WS players are going to be disappointed. Max unit of 3 for Primaris Bikes so far. At T5 and W4 I don’t see them getting bulked out. Like the Eliminators, they’re just too good at 3 to expand them any higher.

All the stratagems giving the warlord a second trait require the trait to be from the supplement. So wise orator and imperium sword together is impossible.

 

As to the white scars players, 535 points and 2 CP will get you 40 S4 AP-1 1D shots, followed by 57 S4 AP-1 1D Cc attacks that reroll to hit and reroll to wound. In assault doctrine its AP-2and 2D.

I dont think that'll be that disappointed.

[Dracos]

That hardly makes sense? Imperium Sword is from the Main Codex and Master of Sanctity is from the Psychic Awakening. Seems to really be a slap to someone who wants to play an unknown founding this no supplement rules. I guess I assumed I could switch from Master of Ambush / Wise Orator to Imperium Sword / Wise Orator. Too bad it would have been perfect for the Biker Chaplain ... not that he's going to be bad without it lol. Just limits options.

 

My question is has there been confirmation Outriders are allowed more than 3 per unit?

Edited July 5, 2020 by Dracos

[Riddlesworth]

They are supplement specific stratagems. If your supplement has a decent combat warlord trait it works fine.

 

No confirmation of outriders being more than 3 persons squad but that 535 points is either a self contained outrider detachment or the HQ and FA slots from a battalion. Both litanies are aura based so can buffs 3 separate units

[Dracos]

That is the kind of thing ... makes me really enjoy our ability to take out two characters in two turns without breaking sweat. 

[Alcyon]

Astartes Chainswords are AP-1 AND still rant one more attack?! SWEEEEEEEEETTT!!! I think I will keep the heavy bolt pistols, unless it later lets you take 3 plasma pistols per unit. Also, power weapon options on the Sergeants would be great.

 

How do we get them into melee? I mean, what is the advantage of paying CP to infiltrate them, when I can drop Incursors for no CP? I can almost see sending them up in an impulsor to jump out into terrain, or to breach terrain held by an enemy.

 

I think the lack of a delivery vehicle is the thing that kills these guys, and I don't think they're good enough to be worth getting a first turn charge with off Master of Ambush. I mean, they definitely deliver a lot of AP1; 2 base plus Shock Assault, plus Chainsword, plus 1 pistol shot pre-combat, that's 50 hits from a 10-man squad; it'll kill 18 guardsmen on average or 8 firstborn marines (4 Primaris.) That said, you can also run Veteran Intercessors for 2 CP and get 20 AP1 shots and 40 AP0 on the charge, with the option to spend another 2 CP for Rapid Fire to get 40 AP1 at range and/or 30 on the charge. We're getting even more CP this edition and more easily to boot. Maybe Assault Intercessors will get some spicy CP dump of their own, though.

 

Anyway all that to say, they can't charge the turn they disembark (though maybe they will in the full release?) and an Impulsor only carries six. Maybe if they could get some bonus to advancing that'd help.

 

How about those Eradicators? Gravis and 24" melta, that can shoot twice if whole units only shoots one enemy unit. I will definitely sneak them into position. Like imagine sneaking them up on a Riptide. Two shielded missile drones will take a lot of the first round of shooting, but that Riptide will be wide open for the second round. Or, infiltrate the Eradicators, and drop in Bolter Inceptors. Let the Inceptors shoot the drones, and the Eradicators deal with the Riptide. I wonder if an Apothecary is now worth it?

 

I think Apothecaries are almost always less useful than an Ancient, especially in a small squad where you expect models to be on a bit of a suicide run. A shame because I much prefer the model. I'm excited about these guys, I like being able to run a more diverse set of weapons and they could take some pressure off Las Fusil Eliminators as the Primaris AT option. Great that they can shoot and stay outside of 12" for the stealth bubble.

 

Brothers! They revealed a Chaplain on a bike, and a Primaris Techmarine! Bike aren't usually our thing, but that is a gorgeous model. That Techmarine has an axe and a shoulder-mounted Heavy Bolter. Also, not usually our thing, but...

 

This makes a strong case for Invictor Warsuits with the Autocannon, because we can sneak that Techmarine into position right behind him.

 

Or, hell, just sneak him in behind a Incendium Cannon Invictor Warsuit (or 2), and let them get up close and personal.

 

The Chaplain is very exciting to me, being able to run a Primaris unit that can move fast enough to support an MoA assault on turn 1 and can be on board to chant a litany from the top of the turn is big. Kinda bothered me that Chaplains were the only way to get really safe plasma before and so I always wanted to run them supporting Hellblasters or something, and now I think this option plus the new 9th Ed rules really refocuses them on melee which just feels right.

 

I also like the prospect of him being around in combat turn 2 so he can use Canticle of Hate to help Terminators or some other deepstrikers make it into combat; can combine with The Raven's Blade to help ensure it.

 

Hadn't even though about MoA on a Techmarine. Seems like a bit of a waste since MoA allows that so-rare full turn of movement from 9" away on t1, but presumably he can be kitted out to be decent in combat. I still don't love most of the Primaris vehicles so it wasn't a big draw for me (though the model is sweet), repairing an Invictor is a cool idea though. Just picked one up today!

[Alcyon]

Also - don't forget Inceptors also benefit from the Indomitus Crusader Grey Shield rules, so you could give them a 6+++ FNP, or ignore AP1/re-roll a hit and wound, even charge after falling back (and shooting, thanks to Fly). Exploding 6s for Boltceptors is spicy too and all these could happen for all your Intercessors, Ancients, Captains and Lieutenants in the same detachment too.

[Dracos]

Looking at building a Plasma-ceptor unit to run with <Shrike> and Bike Chaplain with 5 Outriders if allowed. Assault Intercessor have to get Veteran strat and a Thunder Sgt eventually right?

 

 

 

 

 ... until I get my dream of a Inceptor Captain with two boltstorm gauntlets and an Assault Inceptor squad with Thunder Hammer Sgt :) 

[thewarriorhunter]

I don't know if we'll ever see melee-ceptors. I don't think their design philosophy would lend them to that role. Not saying I don't like it, but I don't see it happening.

[Alcyon]

If there's some kind of Primaris jump pack assault unit it'll be with big turbofans like we see on firstborn Assault Marines and they'll be in Tacticus armour. I doubt it'll be the same as the Inceptors since they wear Gravis which is too heavy I'd think. The original ones actually don't look too bad (bonus beakie.)

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Alcyon

[Dracos]

You’re probably right. I say a picture on CM Valrak’s channel of one with a sword I think and been dreaming of a Chapter Master with two boltstorm gauntlets ever since :)

[thewarriorhunter]

I think we'll see assault intercessors get a jump pack option. I am going to hold firmly to that believe and magnetize the backpacks on mine so that if that becomes an option I can slap some on them.

[duz_]

I think we'll see assault intercessors get a jump pack option. I am going to hold firmly to that believe and magnetize the backpacks on mine so that if that becomes an option I can slap some on them.

 

I hope we see this in the multi part kit even if they become a FA option

 

Part reason I'm holding out on getting the start box

[Dracos]

The more I listen to playtester podcast and looking at the rules the more I like standard Intercessors and Infiltrators. The +1/-1 hard cap still gives me some real “feel badsies” about Raven Guard special abilities. They really look to be very situationally worthwhile now. Look Out Sir and Strategic Reserves are the same in that it seems everything we were unique at has been watered down and given to every faction out there.

 

Which leads me to trying to figure out how to get the best out of what we do have. +1 to hit characters in T2/3 for instance. I haven’t seen a cap +1 to wound yet if it’s out there it just gets worse. Anyone know for sure please share. This kind of thing would seem to steer us away from Chaplains would it not? It at least becoming situational and the same for a stratagem or two if I’m not mistaken. Terrain rules doing the same for the -1 to be hit. Sure it’s useful in some terrain but feels like we’re getting cheated out of our abilities with Imperial Fist getting the same use in many cases (not to mention they negate ours at the same time).

 

I’m salty about these things but starting to look for answers. I know I’m putting the cart before the Invader buggy but you know lockdown and all lol. Darn GW marketing drip-feed. To much anticipation and can’t burn off my gaming fix with every store still closed to public gaming. Simulators just don’t do it for me.

[duz_]

Still many unknowns despite seeing the core rules now

 

Presumably we will see the SM codex released shortly after 9th drops which will give us the full picture

 

Until then I am happily optimistic, that's possibly because my play style for RG doesn't seem to be impacted to negatively

 

 

Also my understanding on caps is just for hitting

[thewarriorhunter]

Still many unknowns despite seeing the core rules now

 

Presumably we will see the SM codex released shortly after 9th drops which will give us the full picture

 

This is my only real complaint. I bought the new codex and supplement and barely got to use them because 2020 is stupid and now I'll probably have to get a new book and potentially supplement. I'm a little salty but I get that GW didn't conspire to force the lack of play and it's a necessary purchase to play. In for a penny in for a pound...

[duz_]

I'm hoping at least we don't need to buy a new supplement

 

The SM one was predictable based on Stormcast Eternals in AoS

Maybe it'll be like the Chaos 1.5 codex though? You can buy that or a cheaper patch book in the meanwhile? Possibly the Chapter Approved that's releasing with 9th. You would assume they would have said new days sheets were in there though if that's the case.

[Alcyon]

 

I think we'll see assault intercessors get a jump pack option. I am going to hold firmly to that believe and magnetize the backpacks on mine so that if that becomes an option I can slap some on them.

 

I hope we see this in the multi part kit even if they become a FA option

 

Part reason I'm holding out on getting the start box

 

 

I probably just won't even build mine until the JP option gets released. You can still buy jump packs separately through the GW store.

[MajorNese]

I haven’t seen a cap +1 to wound yet if it’s out there it just gets worse. Anyone know for sure please share.

The free Core Rules pdf states that already. Hit and Wound roll are capped at 1 regarding modifiers.

[thewarriorhunter]

I still need to fully read the rules. I've skimmed them and listened to several podcasts that are going over them so I know a lot of the highlights, but that doesn't replace actually reading them slowly and carefully.