Thoughts on Prepping for 9e

[AenarIT]

I’ve yet to play a game in 9th edition but my plan so far involves using my Red Scorpions as RG successors (Long-range Marksmen + Master Artisans).
Alpha strike with MoA Chaplain + 5 flamer Aggressors + shadowstepped Culln the Risen in case of first turn, beta strike of 5 Assault Centurions + ss Culln the Risen in case of second turn.
The Assault Centurions have been nerfed but they still seem so cheap to me. 350 points and 1 CP to deepstrike 10 flamers, 5 hurricane bolters and their melee prowess on a super durable platform. Near Culln they get a 6+++ and the Chaplain allows them to charge and consolidate more easily.
With the rest of the points I plan on bringing along some Infiltrators/Intercessors, 3-6 Eliminators and either:
i) 4 Grav Centurions with SftS
ii) 2 Las/Melee Relic Contemptors
iii) 3-6 Eradicators
iv) 2 Hurricane/Chainfist Ironclad Dreads (soooo cheap imho) and 5 Grav Devastators.
In some configuration the points allow for an Assassin or a CP-farming Ordo Xenos Inquisitor.

Not that fluffy I know, but quite strong and very fun to play I think

 

EDIT:
Here's the core of the list: 

Culln the Risen - 400
TDA Chaplain - 98
Primaris Librarian - 95
5 Intercessors - 100
5 Intercessors - 100
5 Infiltrators - 120
5 Aggressors (flame) - 200
5 Assault Centurions - 350

3 Eliminators - 90 (including camo cloaks they are 30ppm)
Tot: 1553

I'll probably upgrade the Chaplain to be the new Primaris one on Bike. 

The more I look at the Eradicators, the more I'm convinced they are too good to not be included. 3-6 of them will make the cut for sure. They are criminally undercosted imho, especially accounting for Strike from the Shadows and played with Master Artisans. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by AenarIT

[sultansean]

Yeah I'm still looking at one unit of 5 Assault Cents and 350 is not too bad. They were at least 10 points a piece under-costed before and with the general 17-20% increase they are about right now. I was playing primarily ITC before.  

Honestly I don't think my list needs to change too much, just going down from 2 battalions to 1 battalion means I will probably drop a smash captain, 3 units of scouts and an eliminator squad and still have a VV squad, an aggressor squad and a Ass Cent squad to smash face with.

I think the change to deployment makes MoA more useful now. Depending on how unit selection for it is worded. Before I was using it to make my opponent choose to go first, as second turn was an advantage. Now it can let us switch to a defence posture or go for a turn 1 slam.   Opponents will have to deploy very defensively  because of it. 

Cap JP TH SS- 155

Chap JP-105
Phob Lt 78

Infiltrators 120
Infiltrators 120
Intercessors-100

Aggressors x 5 -250
Ass Cents x 5 -350
VVx10 5xTH 5xSS 5CS=285

TFC= 140
Eliminators 84
Eliminators 84

Total=1871

So maybe a unit of outriders too?

Edited July 16, 2020 by sultansean

[Jacques Corbin]

Is nobody taking Incursors? I mean, I get taking Infiltrators for that denial bubble. However, what about a squad to move up the field, and clear out cover campers? Their ability to ignore cover and to hit penalties is still strong. I want at least one squad to sweep enemy from cover. They will be great after a TFC fires on the enemy position, let the TFC get the most shots out of an enemy squad at full strength, and then let the Incursors shoot the survivors. I know, the reverse of the traditional shooting phase, where you would fire the guns with the widest choice of targets last.

 

I really want to pair a Lieutenant with Ex Tenebris with a squad of Carbine Reivers or Auto Bolter Intercessors or even Assault Intercessors in a Shield Dome Impulsor.

 

I know everyone hated my Impulsor as an ambulance idea, but what about an Impulsor as a wrecker? Seriously, throw the new Techmarine in there, and a squad of five, and zip right up to that Invictor Warsuit in the midfield. Between the Impulsor, the squad, and the Impulsor, that will be plenty of screen for your Techmarine, and he will let your Invictor Warsuit keep thumping away with his Autocannons. Hell, camp some Infiltrators right there too, and you will have a nice hard point in the midfield. Not a good idea to deep strike nearby, because you have to be outside 12", and not a good idea to shoot at them from long range because Chapter Tactics. Because of that, maybe this would be where the Assault Intercessors shine, to discourage the enemy from getting too close.

[Alcyon]

Denying cover is a sweet bonus, as is having it on a unit with Concealed Positions. To be honest I just hate the visors. Plus, the way CPs and detachments work in 9th Ed I think there's a lot less Troops slots to fill. Intercessors get all the sweet stratagems and the 12" deep strike bubble seems pretty important with everyone having Strategic Reserves (do these interact? I dunno!) - there are other units that can kill infantry more effectively for the points than Incursors, I think.

 

I don't hate the "shooty guys in an Impulsor" plan and might someday run five Hellblasters in one with a Captain - but Inceptors just got proportionally cheaper while Impulsors went up. Plus, the Reiver Carbine foregrips look hella dumb, if you ask me.

 

I'm also low on Assault Intercessors given their limited range. Lots of ways to give regular Intercessors extra and more impactful shots at range, and they already have AP-1 if you run Bolt Rifles. With no jump packs and no ability to charge out of a vehicle after it moved, I don't see a role for them even if wiping a unit off an objective while also charging onto that objective is really good in 9th.

[defl0]

I've been trying to look at RG with a fresh set of eyes. Some things I like for 9th:

 

- plasma intercessors. They have the blast key word. They are well priced. They don't good CP to put in reserves. They are chunky. They have a lot of synergy with RG rules.

- the shrouding librarian power

- see but remain unseen might be good for units performing actions

- assault terminators are super cheap

- vanguard vets stayed pretty inexpensive

- Centurions actually didn't get hit that hard. Dev cents in particular.

- all our abilities to fall back and shoot / assault are better now

- Incursors with bombs now?

- stormtalons seem really good now. 2+ Bs, 2+ armor, -1 to hit

- rapiers can be behind opaque terrain then move 3" to touch terrain and shoot

- vanguard WLTs seen interesting now.

- can we reploy 3 units of Incursors now out of our deployment zone after the roll for first turn? Or back in if we rolled to go second?

- I think sniper scouts are still good with us. I'm also considering stalker intercessors too. They can take a thunder Hammer. It's a nice tool to turn them into snipers even if it's 3 CP, but the few games I've played, killing a character can be game swinging especially for secondaries.

- invictor warsuits seem good for us, but it might make sense to take one bs2+ dread shooting from the rear?

- Aggressors are still good with master of ambush, although it might makes sense to just send a big unit of intercessors forward now.

- shrike with corridor is really interesting

- Impulsors maybe? But man they got expensive

- I want eradicators in a squad of 6

- I want to see the rules for the drop bunker

- I think the bike Chaplain will be great for us

[Dracos]

Infiltrators deploy midfield

Assault Intercessors Infiltrate 

 

These two units are designed to work together to hold a mid-field objective. They have a twin unit for a second mid-field objective. Infiltrators are to keep strategic reserves pushed out. With 18" heavy bolt pistols the Intercessors shots aren't insignificant. I fully expect the Infiltrators to be dead before Turn 3. The Assault Intercessors will counter charge. Then on the opponents turn they can choose to attack first in melee (Sgt eventually getting access to the armory is icing on the cake). If these two units can ObSec Turns 2 and 3 then they've done their job.

 

If needed there will be one (two if I can afford the points) unit of specialist: either Aggressors or Blade Guard to Strike from the Shadows to hold the line. Alternatively the Chappie and Outriders would fill this role nicely. This assumes I've kept my own objective secure and thrown a separate strike team at my opponents backfield to threaten of take it. Hold 3 out of 4 Objectives through Turn 3 and you'll be hard pressed to lose in the new format imo.

 

I bought the Indomitus box set but honestly this game plan would work just as well with anything we already have available. Incursors would cost more but save CP in place of the Assault Intercessors. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Shrike really doesn't need corridor and it's too many moving parts to get off reliably. Just use infiltrators on him and average a 38" move to get him where you want.

[thewarriorhunter]

I've just started painting my Infiltrators from Shadowspear and will probably never run Incursors because I think the heads are ugly. I might try running my Infiltrators proxied as Incursors but if I do all the models will be Incursors so there's no confusion.

[Sergeant_Angle]

So this is a VERY vague question or two. The last time I played tabletop was the start of 7th.  Have Raptors become more popular? as I seem to see more knocking about than I ever did back then. What should be the does and don'ts for buliding a RG list with your experiences of 8th rolling into 9th? 

[WAR]

Raptors have become more popular in 8th because of Lias and his master of ambush rule allowing 3 units instead of warlord trait version allowing warlord and 1 unit. Plus he gun boosting character so he helps raptors as they are the more shooter version of Raven Guard successors. But considering he is one of the few models to get rules but no model it is not a surprise to Legends him.

 

I’ll let everyone else chime in about do’s and dont’s. I play ruler of cool and don’t play tournaments

Edited July 17, 2020 by war009

[duz_]

War009 you did forget the part where they also have an awesome colour scheme! ;)

 

But yes they have become a lot more popular since 7th for a variety of reasons which isn't a bad thing ^_^

[WAR]

which paint scheme......they use SO MANY :D

[Sergeant_Angle]

which paint scheme......they use SO MANY

forget the camo schemes it's all about the OG colours 

 

EDIT: oh wait theres even a type of blizzard camo here 

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Sergeant_Angle

[WAR]

Lol

 

I may have to do a model in the blue yellow scheme....done librarian he wears blue and yellow.....

Edited July 17, 2020 by war009

[stang]

So with info now being out, what do you guys think would make a good combat patrol?

[superwill]

For those who haven’t seen yet, the tournament missions and rules changes have been leaked and it looks like deployment is different to the regular rules that have been spoilt.

 

We WILL know who is going first before we deploy or decide what to put in reserves/redeploy. That’s big for us.

 

EDIT: Ooops no we won’t - we will only know who is the defender and who is the attacker. First turn is decided later. This is why you read all the rules before posting -_-

 

Well that’s a bummer

Edited July 18, 2020 by superwill

[Dracos]

I am not a fan of having to assign deep strikes, strats for SftS (and Infiltrators?) prior to starting deployment. I feel like we are being nerfed by a thousand paper cuts.

 

I hadn't realized so many of the Missions involved 6 Objective Markers. Plans will need to involve controlling four for turns 2-3 and holding on to at least two for turns 4-5.

 

Secondaries ... No way anyone is maxing out three of these for 15 points per.  I see two or three that might become staple. Interestingly one involves having a Librarian and one involves not having a Librarian. Kudos on the balance guys

[Alcyon]

I've been trying to look at RG with a fresh set of eyes. Some things I like for 9th:

 

- plasma intercessors. They have the blast key word. They are well priced. They don't good CP to put in reserves. They are chunky. They have a lot of synergy with RG rules.

- the shrouding librarian power

- see but remain unseen might be good for units performing actions

- assault terminators are super cheap

- vanguard vets stayed pretty inexpensive

- Centurions actually didn't get hit that hard. Dev cents in particular.

- all our abilities to fall back and shoot / assault are better now

- Incursors with bombs now?

- stormtalons seem really good now. 2+ Bs, 2+ armor, -1 to hit

- rapiers can be behind opaque terrain then move 3" to touch terrain and shoot

- vanguard WLTs seen interesting now.

- can we reploy 3 units of Incursors now out of our deployment zone after the roll for first turn? Or back in if we rolled to go second?

- I think sniper scouts are still good with us. I'm also considering stalker intercessors too. They can take a thunder Hammer. It's a nice tool to turn them into snipers even if it's 3 CP, but the few games I've played, killing a character can be game swinging especially for secondaries.

- invictor warsuits seem good for us, but it might make sense to take one bs2+ dread shooting from the rear?

- Aggressors are still good with master of ambush, although it might makes sense to just send a big unit of intercessors forward now.

- shrike with corridor is really interesting

- Impulsors maybe? But man they got expensive

- I want eradicators in a squad of 6

- I want to see the rules for the drop bunker

- I think the bike Chaplain will be great for us

 

Lots of good thoughts there.

 

I've always been interested in Plasma Intercessors (Hellblasters I assume?) too. I just think it's a cool squad and frankly even with the points drops for Inceptors I am leery of running them when you lose a T5 3w model on an unmodified 1. Too lazy to do the math but at the end of the day I think it'll depend on points values. I do like the idea of being able to use stratagems/warlord traits to get them into range on the first turn without having to run a 6-man squad and buy an Impulsor.

 

I like the Obscuration Librarian in theory but I think his biggest downfall is his abilities only target Phobos units, and none of them are really strong enough to maximize the benefits. Shrouding, ok, maybe good on a squad of Infiltrators holding an objective, but I really want to put it on my Aggressors, right? Same with Soul Sight, just doesn't seem worth a 100+pt HQ and psychic test to give 10 bolters ignore cover and +1 to hit. 

 

See But Remain Unseen on an action-taking unit does seem sweet. Sounds like something they will errata though maybe. Assault Terminators, cool but they can't charge consistently out of deep strike, though you could orchestrate something with Canticles of Hate and a CP re-roll if you have a Bike Chaplain or one using MoA. 

 

What changed to improve Stormtalons?

 

Why Intercessors with MoA instead of Aggressors? Because of Objective Secured?

[Jacques Corbin]

I still want to try a squad of Infiltrators, and an Invictor Warsuit starting on a midfield objective, then rushing up an Impulsor with the new Techmarine and 5 Assault Intercessors.

 

Also, I gave some thought to the comment about dropping in the Phobos Lieutenant with Grav Chutes and Ex Tenebris along with Bolter Inceptors, and the Inceptors leaving the LT behind. Well, why not give him Echo of the Ravenspire? If the Inceptors buzz off or they get shot to death while screening for him, then provided he survives the turn, whisk him away to another sniper nest, to threaten another enemy character. So, yeah, Phobos Lieutenant with Grav Chutes, Ex Tenebris, and Echo of the Ravenspire.

 

Also, now I have a reason to build the Hurricane Bolters for my Ironclad Dreadnoughts. My Techmarine can be Master of the Forge and walk them up the board from cover to cover. That will be brutal.

 

I hope regular Intercessors get to take Astartes Chainswords for that sweet AP-1 and extra attack. I just cannot justify a Thunder hammer on a sergeant that is not in a dedicated assault unit.

 

I still want to do MoA Chaplain with Bolter Aggressors. It is just too good.

 

In my backfield, I want Stalker Intercessors, my 2 Thunderfire Cannons, and maybe some Eliminators.

 

Although, :cuss it, I will just collect until the new marine codex drops, then start playing again.

[Riddlesworth]

I still want to do MoA Chaplain with Bolter Aggressors. It is just too good..

.

Ran this in 8th. With master of sanctity and wise orator. Catechism of fire and recitation of focus litanies. It was grim.

 

However, with the biker chaplain release, that's a smash chaplain right there with benediction and mantra of strength, which if you're not into traditional smash captains, is a great toolbox unit for primaris armies.

 

A warlord with MoA and Swift and Deadly though means aggressors are moving 8 on average, still shooting with no penalty and then charging. That can be another chaplain, a gravis/shield captain, a judiciar, lietenebris, veil of time libby etc..

[Shadow Captain Nykona]

The list i am looking at presently is:

 

Shrike 

Phobos Cpt, KBolts and Marksman's Honours 

 

2 units of 5 Infiltrators

5 intercessors, Thunder Hammer

 

3 Plasma inceptors 

 

3 units of bolt eliminators 

 

New Shield Cpt, MoA, Swift and Deadly, potentially the burning blade. 

Phobos Lt, Ex tenebris 

 

3 units of Intercessors, one with a Thunder Hammer

 

5 bolt Aggressors 

 

2 units of 3 of the new Outriders. 

 

 

The plan's are either put maximum pressure on one flank with the bikes, MoA Aggressors and the Plasma Inceptors. While holding mid board with Infiltrators, backed up with Intercessors. Or push in both flanks, bikes on one and MoA Aggressors and give two many targets to deal with, then drop in with Shrike and Inceptors to mop up one or the other flank, again while taking the mid board with everything else.

Going second is hide as much as possible and counter attack with the speed of the bikes and the drop in of the Inceptors. Push in to mid board as a blob with the Aggressors and Intercessors surounding the Shield Cpt using swift and deadly.

 

What do you all think of this list? 

[ShinyRhino]

Someone mentioned Incursors. I'm still planning on running 20 of them in 9th, but doubt I'll take more than two Haywire mines. The wording that only allows a single mine to be set up per turn is crippling to their utility. With only five turns in a game now, you'll be hard pressed to activate more than two or three mines, maybe only one if you use Concealed Positions.

 

The immunity to hit mods will be big. I envision people going big on stacking hit mods purely to counter hit bonuses. You'll see a lot of -2 to hit stuff just to counter +1 to hit stuff since the cap is after all mods. Incursors can just say "cool story, bro" and fire at will.

 

The paired combat blades will also work well, because everyone loves free hits.

 

The new Action system is right up my alley, as well as the alley of my Infiltrators and Incursors. Smoke grenades, terrain rules, the Shrouding psychic power, and See But Remain Unseen make taking out our Action-performing units difficult.

 

It's gonna be fun on a bun.

Edited July 20, 2020 by ShinyRhino

[Dracos]

Anyone have a line on pt increase for both Aggressor types? I'm going to sell/trade my conversions and not sure which of the Aggressors types I want in 9e. 

 

 

Shrike

Chaplain on Bike

Indomitus Lt. MoA 

 

I think thats the HQ choices I'm going to plan around

Edited July 20, 2020 by Dracos

[ShinyRhino]

Anyone have a line on pt increase for both Aggressor types? I'm going to sell/trade my conversions and not sure which of the Aggressors types I want in 9e.

 

 

Shrike

Chaplain on Bike

Indomitus Lt. MoA

 

I think thats the HQ choices I'm going to plan around

Base model before war gear nearly doubled. But the gauntlets are all free, while the grenades went up one. Edited July 20, 2020 by ShinyRhino

[Riddlesworth]

Looking at an increase of 8 points per model for the boltstorm version. They are still worth it.

 

On incursors - they are my go to troops choice atm. Solid shooting. Their shooting trick will pay off more often. I have a soft spot for exploding 6. 5 points more than an intercessor squad and I get advance deploy. 15 as my mandatory troops always at 2k.

 

After that, its intercessors over infiltrators because the firepower is better and you pay such a premium for that bubble