Ultramarines point values in 9th

[Ishagu]

Guilliman 380

Calgar 210

Sicarius 115

Tigurius 135

Cassius 90

Chronus 35

Telion 70

Victrix 35

[Skywrath]

Source?

[derLumpi]

https://youtu.be/mcw54a701iQ

[Subtleknife]

380 pts for GMan...sheesh

 

Maybe it is just looking at it with 8th edition in mind.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Subtleknife

[Ishagu]

I've used him, it's steep imo. He's much harder to protect and his resurrection ability was nerfed heavily due to no longer having access to the command re roll.

 

Comparatively Calgar is a great option.

Also it appears a regular Primaris Librarian is 95 points, a full 40 less than Tigurius. I think the generic option is now better as he can be improved through the use of the new relics, strats and abilities in Psychic Awakening.

[Medjugorje]

I played Calgar in my last game against Custodes. He is an absolut beast.

[Captain Idaho]

A 30pts increase isn't bad. 380pts for a character less vulnerable than any other outside a transport in the army, better in close combat, in an edition where he can be protected better by terrain and support your assault force more easily... I think he's fine.

 

Movement 8" is really decent.

 

***

 

I hear Chapter Champions are up to 75pts. A substantial increase but not terrible as he's more likely to get into combat now without getting shot to death, with Relics you have more access to thanks to increased CP access throughout the army.

 

***

 

Cataphractii Terminators are down overall. Powerfists are up 1pt, Chainfists are down 1pt, Twin Bolters are down 2pts...

 

I save 9pts on my 5 man squad and about 24pts on my 10 man squad build.

 

Tell a lie, they might pay as I was looking at the wrong gun. But still cheap.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Captain Idaho

[Prot]

Most of the characters look good to me. Remember it’s all relative. For example chaos winged DPs went up to a whooping 200 points. Exponentially, that’s ugly. Calgar looks rock solid and I hope he counts for a Supreme Commander slot. 
 

im curious about Cataphractii.  I noted termies faired well in the points hike and cataphractii have a valid role now as primary objective holders/bullies. 

[Ishagu]

Is that true about the winged Daemon Prince? That's crazy.

 

Edit:

 

I misread, I thought you said he went up by 200 points lol.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Ishagu

[Lemondish]

***

 

Cataphractii Terminators are down overall. Powerfists are up 1pt, Chainfists are down 1pt, Twin Bolters are down 2pts...

 

I save 9pts on my 5 man squad and about 24pts on my 10 man squad build.

 

Tell a lie, they might pay as I was looking at the wrong gun. But still cheap.

Yeah, the combi-bolter is that you're looking for there. Twin Bolters are the bike weapons.

[emperorpants]

Guilliman seems...well, he's been discussed a lot. He's not competitive. Not at all. He can be used for fun games where he will be fine, but he will never be taken in competitive lists. He isnt bad, just not competitive. Edited July 13, 2020 by emperorpants

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I played a test game with gman prior to the new points and he was a beast.

[emperorpants]

I played a test game with gman prior to the new points and he was a beast.

I'm sure in some games he will do great. I just doubt very much he will end up in competitive lists. Calgar is still much better in every way.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m going to playtest both extensively before making such statements based on little to any evidence.

[emperorpants]

Cool. Just making an observation based on rules, my own games. Ishagu seems to have found the same things I have. I'm certain that tourney lists will reflect the same.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

My friends that play competitively have all said he’s still a beast.

[emperorpants]

My friends that play competitively have all said he’s still a beast.

Awesome. I hope it turns out that way. Remember, I didn't say he's bad. He's just not the best choice. IMO taking Calgar is much better and points efficient. In normal games Guilliman will be a fine, fun unit. He just won't be in competitive lists imo. If I'm wrong, great. I don't think I am though.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I honestly don’t think you can say he’s bad in competitive games. Why do you say so ?

[Cruor Vault]

I'm seeing elsewhere that Tyrannic War Veterans are now the same cost as Sternguard Veterans.  Since Tyrannic War Veterans have the STERNGUARD VETERAN SQUAD keyword, they should qualify for Masterful Marksmanship (+1 to wound). 

 

Not sure if Sternguard are going to be worth taking, but it's nice that one of our signature units now has a reason to be on the table!

[emperorpants]

He isnt bad, and i never said he was bad. I quite literally said that he isnt bad. Hes just not points efficient when Calgar exists. Calgar and a LT are better and cost less. They provide the same aura buff, their combined melee, especially if you use the indomitus LT., are close enough. They can be healed, Calgar halves damage, they can ride in transports, they can enter and pass through ruins, with his warlord trait Calgar will likely net you more cp, etc. For all this they also cost less than Guilliman. My question is why would you pick Guilliman over Calgar and a LT? His melee isn't so much better as to justify him over the combo.

 

Again, he isn't bad. He can wreck face. He just isn't as good as the alternative. He isnt the most points efficient choice. Competitive will always pick the best possible.

Edited July 13, 2020 by emperorpants

[Ishagu]

He's definitely not worth 380 from my findings. The army is so much smaller with the new point costs - there are less units for him to boost with his aura whilst simultaneously he's far more restricted in how he can move around because of the Look Our Sir rule.

 

I still had some fun in the game, he's not useless, but he's definitely a fun choice over a competitive one.

 

The best way to run Guilliman now is actually with a Patrol detachment because you only need one additional HQ. Allows you to bring a few more hard hitting units.

[Prot]

Here's my thought on Guilliman.

 

I love him, will tend to use him because of cool factor. 

 

But for those of you that haven't played many 9th ed games yet, board control is so important. More important than killing. You can win and be tabled. The Primary (and some of the secondaries) exploit the 'killy, 8th edition army'... you know the ones that can't guard a garbage can without fleeing? 

 

I like having more quality on the table now. I have cleaned out a Tau player one game. Barely lasted 3 turns against my Custodes. Now to be fair, he was playing his first game of 9th, and I had a lot more under my belt. But I knew if he can't shift my elites off of quarters and objectives, I don't care how killy he is. 

 

That's just my preference, but with total disclosure I confess I have a list in my back pocket that has a specific Shield Host of Custodes with Guilliman, and on paper it looks nasty. We will see, I don't want to spill the beans before I can get it into a tournament. :)

 

Anyway, I still have this gut feeling real estate domination will win a lot of games. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

He isnt bad, and i never said he was bad. I quite literally said that he isnt bad. Hes just not points efficient when Calgar exists. Calgar and a LT are better and cost less. They provide the same aura buff, their combined melee, especially if you use the indomitus LT., are close enough. They can be healed, Calgar halves damage, they can ride in transports, they can enter and pass through ruins, with his warlord trait Calgar will likely net you more cp, etc. For all this they also cost less than Guilliman. My question is why would you pick Guilliman over Calgar and a LT? His melee isn't so much better as to justify him over the combo.

Again, he isn't bad. He can wreck face. He just isn't as good as the alternative. He isnt the most points efficient choice. Competitive will always pick the best possible.

I disagree with you and have done a versus.

Here's my thought on Guilliman.

 

I love him, will tend to use him because of cool factor. 

 

But for those of you that haven't played many 9th ed games yet, board control is so important. More important than killing. You can win and be tabled. The Primary (and some of the secondaries) exploit the 'killy, 8th edition army'... you know the ones that can't guard a garbage can without fleeing? 

 

I like having more quality on the table now. I have cleaned out a Tau player one game. Barely lasted 3 turns against my Custodes. Now to be fair, he was playing his first game of 9th, and I had a lot more under my belt. But I knew if he can't shift my elites off of quarters and objectives, I don't care how killy he is. 

 

That's just my preference, but with total disclosure I confess I have a list in my back pocket that has a specific Shield Host of Custodes with Guilliman, and on paper it looks nasty. We will see, I don't want to spill the beans before I can get it into a tournament. :)

 

Anyway, I still have this gut feeling real estate domination will win a lot of games.

 

Really glad you’re back now Prot. :D

[Prot]

Thanks, but aside from test games, I can’t come back to UM full time. Between my work hours and money recreating the army. I still have my scars and enough left overs that I can test theories and play locals. UM turned out pretty darn good for ninth! (So I seem to think but it’s early). 

[Captain Idaho]

White Scars are going to rock this edition... ;)

 

As for efficiency. If you use Calgar and a Lieutenant to perform the role of Guilliman, you're moving at a crawl. Calgar is very slow. The game is about getting around the table for objectives etc and Calgar can't do that quickly or without a Repulsor. Which takes away the points efficiency you were talking about.

 

He's strong, competitive, but has his weaknesses.