Primark G vs PriMarneus

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I didn’t take any pictures sorry but there was a good amount of terrain. Ishagu has always complained about terrain - it’s really not much different in regards to movement. Because I had lots of troops opponent never could draw a bead on Gman until it was too late... he got stuck in and did the business starting on the third turn. I was running Tiggy too with another Libby.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Jim Vesal playing Gman:

 

https://youtu.be/2fAyAlVJkxg

[Captain Idaho]

Isn't that 8th edition?

[Paulinus]

So my third game using 9th is tonight. Not sure who or what I’ll be facing but list isn’t tailored for that.

 

Torn between trying out my last list with Calgar and trying out Gman.

[Captain Idaho]

Let us know how it goes mate.

 

I rarely use special characters. It's a hold over to when I cut my teeth many moons ago. I like building my own.

 

So the majority of my games will see my own characters and I won't have to worry about transport issues or expensive special characters.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Isn't that 8th edition?

yes it was.

[Paulinus]

So my third game using 9th is tonight. Not sure who or what I’ll be facing but list isn’t tailored for that.

Torn between trying out my last list with Calgar and trying out Gman.

Ok. We played last night and it was difficult to fully assess due to time and figuring out some rule interactions. We only got 3 turns in but it was pretty much over by then.

 

We played the 4 pillars.

 

My list was:

 

Guilliman (Warlord)

 

Tigurius

Phobos Librarian (armour Indomitus)

 

Incursors x5

Intercessors x5 with auto bolt rifles, TH

 

Relic Contemptor w/ twin las, cyclone, DDC and storm bolter

Relic Contemptor w/ twin las, cyclone, DDC and storm bolter

invictor warsuit

Victrix Honour Guard

 

Thunderfire (techmarine had the seal of oath)

Eliminators, Sgt with instigator carbine

Devestator squad with grav cannon, cherub, Sgt w/storm bolter

 

Drop pod

Impulsor with shield dome

 

So a small force. Broken up between Guilliman and 2 patrols dets.

 

My secondaries were

 

1) Engage on all fronts

2) Bring it down

3) First strike

 

My opponent was Death Guard. Using the Poxmongers company from the new PA rules

 

not sure of all the names but as I recall he had

 

Mortarion

 

Plague Lord

Daemon Prince of nurgle with plate

Lord of contagion

 

3x 10 man pox walkers

 

Foul Blightspawn

3x Deathshroud Terminators

 

Squad of three mephitic blight haulers with multi meltas and missile launchers

1x bloat drone

 

Plagueburst crawler

 

Rhino.

 

He took as secondaries

 

1) Bring it down

2) Engage on all fronts

3) Raise the banners

 

I’ll only highlight a few things to not draw this out.

 

This mission deployment map is table quarters.

 

My opponent likely did not have the most optimal list as he was trying stuff out. He chose to be the defender and I got first turn.

 

I deployed aggressively knowing that I could redeploy. He placed ten poxwalkers to move up to get the flanking quarter. I deployed the eliminators in the quarter on his flank behind obscured cover. So he countered with pox walkers in rhino. I added the incursors and the Invictor to threaten that quarter and his flank turn 1. He placed the lord of contagion, the Blightspawn, and the haulers to counter what I put down.

 

He had another pox walker squad near the objective in his quarter with the crawler near the his rear counter force for the buffs.

 

My deception plan worked.

 

Meanwhile Mortarion was eager to go after Guilliman so he created a posse of Morty, the Deathshroud, blight drone and daemon prince. The problem was he was headed for Gman flanked by two relic contemptors (the twins as I call them) with two Victrix bringing up the rear. A good solid mobile block.

 

Thunderfire we’ll back and out of sight, using the seal of oath to target the haulers. Hoping for massed fire and rerolls to get three bring it down points on one target, those things are tough so probably not the best choice.

 

Long story short, I got first turn and opted to engage with the invictor and incursors rather than redeploy. Drop pod landed and grav devs shot up the crawler. It should have been dead twice over with those shots but he kept making 4+ saves and FNP (made 8 of 12 FNP at some point with that thing). Gman and the twins moved to take my flanking objective but the drop pod was on it already.

 

Psychic phase was a bust even with empiric chanelling on Tigurius to buff him. I managed to take out a unit of poxwalkers in the forest with the incursors and Invictor. Both ignore the benefits of forests so that worked out well. Shot up the rhino and took it out in melee. And consolidated both units into his castle pile tying up his haulers, pox walkers and crawler.

 

Only caused minor damage to his Terminators after they syphoned off hits to Morty.

 

Turn one I had engage on all fronts for 3 pts, first strike for 5 and a bring it down for 3.

 

TURN 1 Death Guard

 

He retaliated by pulling out his haulers and trying to kill off the incursors with a fall back strat. I had one left after that. He tried shooting the invictor with the crawler in melee with the guns he could, the lord of contagion charged it and brought to 1 wound. The invictor hit the crawler destroying it and he self detonated making my invictor dead and I rolled a 6 for another chain reaction nearly killing his characters but taking out my last incursors. Dammit. That whole mess could have got me the extra kills I needed for the additional three points for killing more using First strike. Oh well.

 

Meanwhile, Morty and the gang had some hard decisions. After he wiped out the grav devs with some lucky rolling he wanted to charge the Impulsor I had and my two Libbys. The issue was that he wasn’t sure he could reach all three. So he played safe and him and his posse charge the Impulsor to get his points. By using his pile in then his consolidate he moved his prince into engagement range with my librarians essentially neutering them for a turn.

 

End of his turn he scored:

 

bring it down: 6pts

Raise the banners: 0

Engage on all fronts: 2pts

 

TURN 2 Ultras

 

In my command phase I scored 15pts for primaries.

 

I pulled the librarians away but that neutered any psychic actions on my part. Guilliman and Twins moved to engage Mortarion and the gang. I shot a lot of small arms fire at Mortarionwhich the Deathshroud sucked up with a few getting to Morty. My big guns took out the prince.

 

Thunder fire took out his poxwalkers that we’re trying to raise the banner and prevent him getting a primary.

 

In melee I attacked the blight drone with the thunder hammer Intercessor squad and he made all his invuls again. I also had one twin hit with everything but he saved everything. Sigh. Guilliman knocked off 9 wounds off Morty and took out the remaining Terminators. Morty took out a twin but it took all of his attacks to do it. I also fought again with him at the end of the phase bringing Morty to 3 wounds remaining.

 

I scored:

 

Engage on all fronts: 2pts

bring it down: 2pts

 

Deathguard turn 2

 

His command phase saw him get 5pts for primaries,

 

At this point things were looking bad for the deathguard tactically. Morty was locked in melee and staying in was a bad idea as Guilliman and the remaining twin would hit him first so he made a good call by pulling to contest one of my primary objectives near the pod. But he sacrificed his use of psychic powers to do that. But he caused a few mortal wounds in the fight phase with his aura power. The drone pulled out and shot again with that strat again reducing the Intercessors to just the Sgt after the haulers had killed a few as well.

 

No melee.

 

He scored:

 

Engage on all fronts: 3pts

 

Ultramarines Turn 3

 

I only scored 5 pts for primaries.

 

More shooting. Killing the remaining poxwalkers and trying to kill his two backfield characters but I only killed one with long range las cannon fire. I was hoping to take them both off his objectives.

 

In shot ups his blight drone but it wouldn’t die. Even after the the Sgt charged it again with his Thunderhammer his dice were hot.

 

Guilliman, the remaining Victrix (one had been killed by sucking up wounds) and the twin finished off Morty. My librarians had all of their powers denied in the psychic phase but managed to reclaim my objectives.

 

I got

 

engage on all fronts: 2pts

Bring it down: 3pts

 

Death Guard Turn 3.

 

Command phase gave him 15 pts for primaries.

 

 

His whole army tried (for those that could) tried to kill the remaining twin for points as this was our last turn for the night. The twin weathered most of it with his saves and FNP.

 

He scored 2 pts for engage on all fronts.

 

We agreed he was fighting a losing battle at this time.

 

Final score:

 

Ultras: 40pts

Deathguard: 36

 

Although it was close, his ability to score any more points wasn’t there anymore. I would have started my turn with two primaries, with enough firepower to get him off his primaries. I would have gotten two or three more bring it downs as well.

 

CONCLUSION

 

So all that to say, playing Guilliman was a blast. That mobile brick with the twin contemptors and Victrix was awesome. Good protection and very very mobile. Ultras like the midfield and I never felt that I couldn’t reach any threat in that zone. The heavy weapons allowed me to reach out beyond that with Gman’s buffs.

 

One thing we forget to mention is how good Gman’s ranged weapon is, good strength, good damage. Calgar is lacking in that respect.

 

The Gman block was such a threat that it kept Morty and his gang to want to deal with it head on.

 

Learned a few interesting thing not related to GMan though.

 

Rapid redeploy strat or the threat of it coupled with infiltrators is such a psychological weapon. Pretty much distracted half his army on things that gave up only a few points.

 

Tagging Psykers is awesome even though it happened to me as well. But tag them with something that can kill them so you force them to fall back. Give your opponent a hard choice.

 

Anyway, still learning 9th,

 

Sorry about the length. I plan to use Guilliman again to see how he fares in more battles but mobility isn’t a an issue and if you can find something like the Contemptor block, you can take advantage of his shooting buff and the fact that he is a beast in melee.

 

I don’t think this game was conclusive about Gman being better but it gives me some food for thought.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Really great batrep Paulinus - thanks for taking the time to write it for us... I learned a lot. I really like your list - the twin Relic Contemptors are an awesome combination with Bobby G ! Did you ever use his Hand of Dominion ?

 

Going back to the video batrep with Jim Vesal I think it’s worth watching as Bobby G goes line backing and is able to absorb a lot of punishment and did his fair share of heavy lifting too .

[Paulinus]

No. I stuck to the Emperor’s sword. The mortal wounds came in useful against Mortarion’s invul.

 

Yeah, I really am liking the two relic contemptors with him. I’m going to give that a go again. They seem like a really good complement to his aura buffs and offer a good degree of protection. The Victrix were just insurance against snipers and sniping smite and mortal wounds.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think the Hand of Dominion is great versus tough units like Knights .

[Paulinus]

Most definitely. He’s pretty versatile that way.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/XYLNrAyfljHcBqzu.pdf

[Paulinus]

Well that solves that. I knew it was an editing error as it made no sense the way they first wrote it.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

For sure.

[Ishagu]

Guilliman might be more viable in a Primaris focused army once the new tanks are released.

 

A few of those surrounding the Primarch advancing forward could be very effective.

[Captain Idaho]

That's not a great idea. Guilliman wants to get in close and fight. Those Gladiators want to shoot opponents and avoided close combat.

 

The units that work great with Guilliman are:

 

- Contemptors

- Relic Contemptors

- Redemptors

- Ironclads

- Terminators (Teleporting forward positions)

- Aggressors

- Vanguard with Storm Shields

 

Special mention must go to those Bladeguard. If you have 5+ they'll be great and can join the combat with him. However, they're a tad slow with very poor shooting utility plus at present can only be taken in small squads of 3.

 

If we can get them up the table quickly enough they can really help him out, but likely he'll leave them behind quickly.

 

I do agree Guilliman needs more assistance in a Primaris army to be as effective as an all Classic army. However, I think he's still good with 2 Redemptors bodyguards and a bunch of Aggressors. Probably back that up with a couple squads of Intercessors for a marching list.

[Ishagu]

Nah the Gladiators are mid to short range. Their optimum range is 12"

 

Guilliman is there to scare away anything thinking about assaulting whilst providing his aura.

That could be a potential mid table control unit.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm pretty sure the optimum range for a unit with 24" anti-tank is between 18" and 24". (or more accurately, the range to get into range for the weapons, so about 36" for these tanks)

 

Thing is, if you're babysitting shooting units with Guilliman you won't get the use out of him and thus will find it inefficient.

 

***

 

To clarify, don't get me wrong - a Gladiator alongside Guilliman and a couple Redemptors for front line duties will be solid.

 

I just feel the days of Guilliman surrounded by Predators and Razorbacks are long behind competitive games and duplicating it with Primaris equivalents might be a recipe for disaster.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Captain Idaho

[Ishagu]

The days of anything sitting back and shooting are over. That's not what I'm suggesting at all.

 

They've got multi Meltas, so the absolute best range is 12, effective range is 24 obviously.

 

These tanks can create a kill zone in the centre of the board and can act as a main damage dealer, with Guilliman acting as a counter charge protector and aura provider.

 

Let's assume they can move 14" as they have the Impulsor chassis, and as they can fly they can break off to hunt units mid game and fly over terrain.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Ishagu

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I plan to run two to three with double HOGC for my Templars. Anything with 24” range is good now.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah I can't see myself ever taking anything BUT double Heavy Onslaughts!

 

The days of anything sitting back and shooting are over. That's not what I'm suggesting at all.

They've got multi Meltas, so the absolute best range is 12, effective range is 24 obviously.

These tanks can create a kill zone in the centre of the board and can act as a main damage dealer, with Guilliman acting as a counter charge protector and aura provider.

Let's assume they can move 14" as they have the Impulsor chassis, and as they can fly they can break off to hunt units mid game and fly over terrain.

Ah I sees ya.

 

Yes a couple of these damage dealers alongside Guilliman (or not as the case may be) at least initially as he goes in, with Aggressors, Terminators, Vanguard or whatever, should be a solid force.

 

(The beauty of Primaris vehicles for me is their scale and size doesn't look out of place alongside my existing models. Though I was not a fan of the aesthetic of Repulsors, these Gladiators are delicious)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The double HOGC is gonna male opponents has serious sadface. :D

[sultansean]

How have further games with the G-Man gone?

I'm looking at running him with Aggressors, Victrix Guard, Judicar and an Apothecary. For an up the middle death ball. 

Aggressors shoot away chaff. Judicar makes a charging unit fight last. Victrix guard take wounds for G_man and the apothecary heals the Victrix Guard. 

Intercessors and Eradicators will round out the list to hold objectives and kill big things. 

[mel_danes]

I can tell you resurrection Victrix are a terror, with the banner for extra attacks it's just sick. Primarneus for rerolls adds another layer to the pain parfait.

[Captain Idaho]

I used Guilliman alongside 10 Cataphractii Terminators, D

Ironclad Dreadnought, Predator with Autocannon and Heavy bolters plus the army itself and found him incredibly powerful.

 

The Cataphractii culled numerous Orks, the Predator was a terror because it just rarely missed and got a decent amount of wounds and thanks to Guilliman I held the line and killed plenty.

 

The trick I found was to use him with plenty of things. Larger models and Cataphractii with Transhuman Physiology makes for too much to chew through, as well as holding the objectives and controlling the centre of the board.

 

I need more use of him against various armies, such as my friend's Blood Angels jump pack list (a tournament favourite) as well as firepower heavy lists, but I'm confident he can perform in the lists I'm building with him. Obscuring terrain helps a lot too.