9e Raven Guard Successor List (for Competitive Play)

[Lukoi]

So points have dropped today via some leaks, and they are being parsed, broken out by faction, analyzed, complained about etc in high volume across the internet. I've been tinkering with adjustments to my list, and now that points have dropped, find myself close to a list I think I'll be trying out initially.

 

I ran a RG-Successor list that did not rely on the Centurion "bomb" that the faction is so well known for, and felt pretty good with it. So the new points impact to me was only about 18% increase across the board, but my new list, in an effort to take advantage of some of the new stuff is going to cost me at least one Invictor (if not both) from my list, both of my suppressors, and my wicked cool little attack bike for being an engineer (also not really an issue in 9e comp missions). *Sad face.*

 

A Battle-forged Battalion (12 CP)

• Primaria Chaplain - Warlord, Trifold Path (extra WL trait), Master of Sanctity: WL traits - Wise Orator (reroll litanies), Swift & Deadly (charge even if you advanced, all chapter units <6"), and three litanies (inspiring two per round) Canticle of Hate (+2" charge), litany of hate, recitation of focus; free relic is Reliquart of Gathalamor (3+ invuln) - 85pts, - 2CP
• Jump pack Captain Hero of the Chapter (WL trait): WL trait - Imperium Sword (reroll this char's charge, either die or both, and +1S/A for charging/being charged/heroic intervention), with a TH/SS 155pts, - 1CP
• Primaris LT - with Ex Tenebris (relic) - 70pts, - 1CP

• Assassin - 100pts

• Intercessors x 5, with aux grenade launcher - 102
• Intercessors x 5, with aux grenade launcher - 102
• Intercessors x 5, with aux grenade launcher - 102
• Scouts x 5, with bolt rifles - 70

• Aggressors x 5 - 225
• Blade Guard Veterans x 5- 175
• Relic Contemptor Dreadnaught w/ TLC - 185

• Eradicator x 3 - 120
• Eradicator x 3 - 120
• TFC - 130

So I should be starting the game with 8CP (or 6 if forced to use Shadow Assignment to swap assassins from what I normally start with on the list), which takes me to 13 (11) over the course of the game, which is 2 more than I'm used to playing with.

 

Additionally, this list comes out to about 1741 (and is assuming BG Vets will be like aggressors, and allow to add models to hit 6 in total; obviously will reconfigure if that's not the case).

 

I'm torn on what to add to finalize this list. I like the Assault intercessors, but for the price, and given I still have elite slots, BG Vets just seem to do the job better. I like the Invictor (was just about to pop the boxes open and start painting them for my Army as I've been playing exclusively online with my previous list), and while I don't want to be that guy.....the Eradicator team just seems to be so much better point for point, that I'm considering adding a third to this list, but that comes at the loss of utility in the TFC. Maybe a Suppressor squad and additional scouts? Idk.

 

Option B - swap Master of Ambush into the Smash Captain, move Imperium Sword to the Chaplain, and let go of Swift and Deadly -- but with the random way the game starts, just not convinced MoA is worth it given you'll only get to use it 50% of matches. I can't see it being super likely to use going second (willing to hear different perspectives on that).

 

Critiques, recommendations welcome. Thanks.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Lukoi

[Alcyon]

Can you speak a little to your deployment plan? I think my main concern would be the lack of mobility outside your HQs. You have some forward deployment options but outside the scouts they are really dependent on CP and RG stratagems. I assume the BGVs are going to be the main MoA target to try and get a turn 1 charge off if you get the first turn, and the Aggressors could come in via SftS or Tactical Reserves on turn 2 along with the Eradicators so they don't have to slog it across the table so far.

 

On the good side you have a few major threats that I think should split enemy attention and help at least some of your units do a lot of damage. 

[Lukoi]

Thanks for the feedback Alcyon. To be frank, the only thing keeping the unit RG is theme, and tentatively, the Surgical Strike detachment rule (and even that is impacted by things being adjusted to Look Out Sir rule specifically; for example cloud of flies will impact Ex Tenebris, where as I'm not sure it did before). Nothing specific to RG sticks out to me given the current rules, map, objective layouts, and way points are scored in match play. That's not to say RG cant be a great faction, but the uniqueness of it seems much reduced. Even the phobos/infiltrator strategem/MoA WLT seem to be much less effective.

 

I'm considering taking the list an entirely different direction potentially.

 

Regarding deployment, and effort to control the mid board, I considered taking rapid assault and master artisan for successor traits. The assault bolt intercessor and eradicators, as well as Culexes all benefit from being able to rapidly press up the board to try and seize midfield.

 

LT is in rear, buffing TFC and RCD, the latter of which is now able to move to gain angles as needed. And the Vindicar is back there as well if I needed to Shadow Assign (2CP) a different assassin.

 

Up the middle goes the chaplain, BG vets, and third intercessor to take a stab at the center if needed.

 

Jump captain and aggressors (1CP) in deepstrike, and scouts screen rear of the team mostly.

 

With the last of points (~259), it's a question do I find a leviathan or second AT platform of somekind....more infantry for a second wave of obsec (always thinking of those primaries), or some kind of bomb construct like a drop pod and grav devastators.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Lukoi

[Lukoi]

I think I'm going to return an attack bike to the list to steal objectives, put the aggressors in DS to steal an obj in turn 2-3, and use the balance of points on an invictor and some thunderhammers, or some other kind of walker.

[Lukoi]

Man, I thought I had a great list idea, and damned glad I went and tried some early positioning on the Pro-Table Top version of maps (while not yet a tournament standard per se, they are one of the groups that hosts tournies and so they probably have a decent version of the map, with associated terrain thought out).  I think I've tried 5-6 of the new maps, and frankly, there's so much less room to hide/position stuff initially that I've had to go back and relook things - rotated in a flyer specifically so I can Deepstrike it without CP cost.  Nuts.

[Lukoi]

Ok finally got through several run throughs on five GT maps that Pro-table top built.  Admittedly, they have their flavor of terrain on them, and they are each extremely different, so what you'd encounter at a different tournament, or a FLGS will impact things significantly.  That being said, the distances, board control, zoning etc is something that really has to be planned for.  It's not nearly as simple as planning for a list and throwing it on the table.  I literally struggled to place models in a reasonably protected way quite often.  Additionally....it literally drove me to drop some bladeguards to get another jump capable unit into DS to make room.  And I'm chipping into Strike from the Shadows even more than I'd like, but sometimes capability is simply more important than CP.

 

So here's the refined, rehearsed list:

 

A Battle-forged Battalion (12 CP)

• Primaris Chaplain - Warlord, Trifold Path (extra WL trait), Master of Sanctity: WL traits - Wise Orator (reroll litanies), Swift & Deadly (charge even if you advanced, all chapter units <6"), and three litanies (inspiring two per round) Canticle of Hate (+2" charge), litany of hate, recitation of focus; free relic is Reliquary of Gathalamor (-1 psyk manifest <18") - 85pts, - 1CP
• Jump pack Captain Hero of the Chapter (WL trait): WL trait - Imperium Sword (reroll this char's charge, either die or both, and +1S/A for charging/being charged/heroic intervention), with a Burning Blade Relic - 120pts, -2CP
• Primaris LT - with Ex Tenebris (relic) - 70pts, - 1CP

• Assassin - 100pts

• Intercessors x 5, (all three squads with assault bolters) 100
• Intercessors x 5, 100
• Intercessors x 5, 100
• Scouts x 5, with bolt rifles - 70

• Centurion Assault x 3, 240
• Blade Guard Veterans x 3- 105
• Relic Contemptor Dreadnaught w/ TLC - 185

• Suppressor x 3 - 99
• Attack Bike - 48

• Eradicator x 3 - 120
• Eradicator x 3 - 120
• Relic Leviathan Dreadnought - 335

 

Should be about 1997 points in 9e.  

 

Ironically, I never ran centurions of any stripe as I was learning this game on TTS for the swansong days of 8th edition.  Here, I find myself swapping out the 5xAggressors I thought I was taking, for 3 Centurions who seem to be more durable with a better save and extra wound each.  Obviously against high AP shooters, I might consider swapping for terminators.  Ultimately, they are meant to come in via DS, help seize an objective, and then get left there to hopefully hold it for a full turn while the rest of the army grinds towards them (the Captain likely having hopped away to do something else).

 

On all of the GT maps, my game plan is simply to turn it on the long axis each time -- So when you're already going from the 44" edge, it's good to go.  Deploy defensively, move and advance aggressively with the dismounts (the two Walkers can keep up without doing so), and typically I'm leaning to one side or the other.  I'm not ever taking any of the secondaries related to the center of the map specifically, so it's really just about pressing up, seizing objectives and grinding the enemy down.  With no immobile assets being left behind (like TFC, Whirlwind), and most of the unit capable of firing on the move, my "rear" becomes the area behind the Dreads that I want to ensure has a bit of protection. That's so some guided missile hopefully gets bogged down by it, allowing me to turn and deal with it on my terms. 

 

If we start on the 60" edge for deployment, it's very easy to lean very hard left/right and basically turn the battle 90 degrees.  Unless someone wants to go toe to toe on the same flank during the UGIG deployment phase (I find that unlikely as most people want to take a balanced approach to seizing the midfield), I feel this allows me to push up hard and turn that corner, and actually on most of the maps, I can get the preponderance of objectives early, or at the very least - stay even on OBJ's.  Again, I expect to be advancing turn 1 with virtually all units (so averaging 9").  

 

I can basically "screen" the rear of the main force with one 5xsquad of intercessors (or scouts).  And just grind up the board.  

 

I intend to put the Cents, Captain, Suppressors, and one Eradicator team in DS (except for on Frontline Warfare, and maaaaybe Scorched Earth currently, where they stay on the board -- it's all based on LOS blocking cover available).  This starts me at 6 (or 7) CP, which ultimately is a couple more than I'm used to having any way, and now that I no longer take a TFC, I'm saving 3-6 that I'd normally spend on Suppression/Tremor Shells anyway.

 

For Successor traits, I'm looking at Rapid Assault, and still debating Stealthy, Master Artisan, or even something else entirely, but after experimenting with ranges, available terrain etc, confident I don't need Hungry for Battle anymore (which I honestly thought was a "must take" for this build initially, but map recon just didn't bear that out).

 

Sorry for the ramble, but appreciate any available feedback.

 

p.s. before it gets brought up, tracking that the Reliquary might end up a dead relic vs some teams, but given 9th's rules, I feel like it's a small tax to pay -- after compiling something like 150 lists from competitive tournaments/batreps, psykers are present in more than 2/3rds of the lists, and averaging slightly over 2.0 pyskers per list (not including GK's in the averages for obvious reasons).  I don't expect these #'s to dip too hard in 9e, altho HQ slots are at a premium.  Some factions simply have to use them to replicate the buffs/effects.  Combined wth a Culexes Assassin (-2 to manifest, same size aura), suddenly the D3 wounds becomes a very real threat to enemy pyskers and you can reshape the whole battlefield.  Given the smaller map, taking the near center with these two can hugely disrupt any team trying to use the warp near you.  If the Culexes isn't needed, spend 2CP for Shadow Assignment and bring in a Vindicare I think.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Lukoi

[Alcyon]

Really interesting to see your thought process and conclusions. I finally played a game this weekend and I was shocked by how small the board is (we just played 500pts) and how quickly units can move, especially ones with jump packs. Units with 48" and 36" range just seem unnecessary and everyone turtles up in deployment when they don't know who has first turn. 

 

I really like your approach of an entirely mobile force and I think my army will turn out somewhat similar. You don't need to run Aggressors since you aren't using MoA, the Centurions are just as good, and combat-only units with little shooting ability are improved because you can hug cover more easily and won't always have line of sight anyway. 

 

I don't have much advice outside of agreeing with you; I hope it works out and definitely keep us posted on how your games go.

[Lukoi]

Thanks, will do. Hoping to playtest it this week at least once!

[Alcyon]

Hey Lukoi - how's things? I wanted to ask you about your Bladeguard Veterans and how you're running them in this list. I'm considering adding some of my own for melee punch and was wondering how you're delivering them; MoA? Impulsor?