[9th Edition] All Blood Angel Point Changes

[RyanT2112]

Made this today -- hope this helps!









 

Edited July 14, 2020 by RyanT2112

[RyanT2112]

Many of our models point values on gear is now folded into the model. I'm sure I forgot a few notations on this.

Invictor Tactical Warsuit (the two main weapons are now free, this is represented in the model's actual points versus its two main weapon choices being 0 pts)
Hellblasters (all the weapon choices are free, thus the point hike)
Stormstrike Missiles on the Stormraven (Included in the model's price, the remainder of weapons must be added to the price listed)

Inceptor Assault Bolters are now free, included in the base model's price....

Suppressor accelerator autocannons are now free, included in the base model's price...

 

etc.. there are many more..
 

(I spotted some minor errors like old points MC power sword listed similar to lightning claws.. no worries, new points are correct)

Edited July 14, 2020 by RyanT2112

[Spagunk]

I can't fathom why Gabriel would double in points. He's not THAT good.

Also encarmine axes and swords STILL the same as fists making fist a no brainer option (axe secondary) for sanguinary guard. Still a weird choice.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Spagunk

[Paulochromis]

Nice work. Looks like Ranged Weapons from I-S are missing.

[Panzer]

Just use this link. There you can find every points change of every faction (sorted by factions via tabs) and the procentual change of each entry.

[Are Verlo]

I can't fathom why Gabriel would double in points. He's not THAT good.

.

Seems like the lines with old cost for Tycho and Gabriel were mixed. Edited July 14, 2020 by Are Verlo

[Jolemai]

Made this today -- hope this helps!

 

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to compile and share a BA only version :tu:

[Xenith]

Furioso dread with furioso fists, meltagun and storm bolter has gone from 116 to 118pts, surely one of the winners of the change. 

 

No change to a dread with TLLC, and it can now move+fire without penalty.

 

Furioso lIbbys stayed much the same ~153pts?

 

Thank for posting OP - Though I think you're missing ranged weapons from H onwards?

[RyanT2112]

Furioso dread with furioso fists, meltagun and storm bolter has gone from 116 to 118pts, surely one of the winners of the change. 

 

No change to a dread with TLLC, and it can now move+fire without penalty.

 

Furioso lIbbys stayed much the same ~153pts?

 

Thank for posting OP - Though I think you're missing ranged weapons from H onwards?

Fixed :)

 

Thanks!!

 

Yeah - a lot of people need to remember Dreads got a huge boon this edition.

 

1: Being able to fire in close combat.... (Heavy Flamers anyone?)

2: Being able to melee 5" up on ruins

3: Being able to hide in terrain or between it

4: Points went up across the board by an average of 12-15% depending. So if a model stays roughly the same, its a points "drop" comparatively.

 

:)

 

Hope that helps!

[RyanT2112]

 

I can't fathom why Gabriel would double in points. He's not THAT good.

.

Seems like the lines with old cost for Tycho and Gabriel were mixed.

 

Yes that's correct. Original Gabriel Seth was not 70 pts. But all the final points are correct. 130pts-> 140pts

 

Mind you they likely are fixing the Chapter Master rule.

Edited July 14, 2020 by RyanT2112

[RyanT2112]

I can't fathom why Gabriel would double in points. He's not THAT good.

 

Also encarmine axes and swords STILL the same as fists making fist a no brainer option (axe secondary) for sanguinary guard. Still a weird choice.

Encarmine Axe 10pts  +1 STR AP-2 1D3 DMG

Encarmine Sword 10pts USER AP-3 1D3 DMG

Power Fist  10 PTS  STR x2 AP-3 1D3 DMG

 

The differences really are....

Axe is now the best value on blood angels unless you want to beat T8 models or want higher AP.

Sword and Axe do not suffer hit penalty, sword gives -3 AP (irrelevant if you want to hit in turn 3... unless you want AP4)

Power Fist multipliers are now done before modifications (No more STR 10 w/ a priest nearby, now STR 9)

 

Its preference really but I'd probably kit 1 or 2 with fists, and the rest with axes personally.

[Xenith]

 

I can't fathom why Gabriel would double in points. He's not THAT good.

 

Also encarmine axes and swords STILL the same as fists making fist a no brainer option (axe secondary) for sanguinary guard. Still a weird choice.

Encarmine Axe 10pts  +1 STR AP-2 1D3 DMG

Encarmine Sword 10pts USER AP-3 1D3 DMG

Power Fist  10 PTS  STR x2 AP-3 1D3 DMG

 

The differences really are....

Axe is now the best value on blood angels unless you want to beat T8 models or want higher AP.

Sword and Axe do not suffer hit penalty, sword gives -3 AP (irrelevant if you want to hit in turn 3... unless you want AP4)

Power Fist multipliers are now done before modifications (No more STR 10 w/ a priest nearby, now STR 9)

 

Its preference really but I'd probably kit 1 or 2 with fists, and the rest with axes personally.

 

 

Not quite - With S modifiers Axe wounds T5 on a 3+, while fist on a 2+

 

To hit, to wound, and to save modifiers all balance out. As in, sword and axe are both as likely to wound a marine. The fist combines the -3AP of the sword with the Str bonus of the axe. 2 bonuses to one penalty. Essentially the -1 to hit cancels out with the increased AP over the axe. 

 

Axe wins where the fist is overkill, like on 5+ save models...then theyre equal.

 

Fist gets even better if you can get rerolls, while the axe can benefit from the stratagem. Pretty equal. Sword seems to lose out though.

[Panzer]

Actually, since you usually want to have a Sanguinary Priest near your Sanguinary Guard blob, it barely makes any noteworthy difference.

 

Assuming a Priest nearby we are looking at,

 

Against T1-4:

Swords hit on 3+, wound on 2+ = 0.55

Axes hit on 3+, wound on 2+ = 0.55

Fists hit on 4+, wound on 2+ = 0.42

 

Against T5:

Swords hit on 3+, wound on 3+ = 0.44

Axes hit on 3+, wound on 2+ = 0.55

Fists hit on 4+, wound on 2+ = 0.42

 

Against T7-8:

Swords hit on 3+, wound on 4+ = 0.33

Axes hit on 3+, wound on 4+ = 0.33

Fists hit on 4+, wound on 2+ = 0.42

Edited July 14, 2020 by Panzer

[momerathe]

The extra point of AP pushes the sword in front of the axe if you’ve got a priest around. Axes are better unsupported.

 

Fists are better versus vehicles but with them shooting combat in 9th I’m not sure SG are the best source of AT now.

[RyanT2112]

 

 

I can't fathom why Gabriel would double in points. He's not THAT good.

 

Also encarmine axes and swords STILL the same as fists making fist a no brainer option (axe secondary) for sanguinary guard. Still a weird choice.

Encarmine Axe 10pts  +1 STR AP-2 1D3 DMG

Encarmine Sword 10pts USER AP-3 1D3 DMG

Power Fist  10 PTS  STR x2 AP-3 1D3 DMG

 

The differences really are....

Axe is now the best value on blood angels unless you want to beat T8 models or want higher AP.

Sword and Axe do not suffer hit penalty, sword gives -3 AP (irrelevant if you want to hit in turn 3... unless you want AP4)

Power Fist multipliers are now done before modifications (No more STR 10 w/ a priest nearby, now STR 9)

 

Its preference really but I'd probably kit 1 or 2 with fists, and the rest with axes personally.

 

 

Not quite - With S modifiers Axe wounds T5 on a 3+, while fist on a 2+

 

To hit, to wound, and to save modifiers all balance out. As in, sword and axe are both as likely to wound a marine. The fist combines the -3AP of the sword with the Str bonus of the axe. 2 bonuses to one penalty. Essentially the -1 to hit cancels out with the increased AP over the axe. 

 

Axe wins where the fist is overkill, like on 5+ save models...then theyre equal.

 

Fist gets even better if you can get rerolls, while the axe can benefit from the stratagem. Pretty equal. Sword seems to lose out though.

 

Are we forgetting Red Thirst?

[Panzer]

The extra point of AP pushes the sword in front of the axe if you’ve got a priest around. Axes are better unsupported.

Fists are better versus vehicles but with them shooting combat in 9th I’m not sure SG are the best source of AT now.

Agreed. And since SG are a big investment that make or break your game you usually want to properly support them with a Priest and Sanguinary Ancient.

 

As for the fists, especially because they can shoot back you'd want to deal as much damage as possible once you get into melee. No point in drawing the fight out.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Panzer

[Xenith]

 

Are we forgetting Red Thirst?

 

No - my example was of an axe wounding T5 on a 3+ - S4 normal, 5 from the axe, +1 from RT. 

 

The point I was inarticulating was said better above.

 

The 'best one' provides the most benefits. If you have a priest nearby, your axes are already wounding T4 on 2's, so are overkill. Against T5, 3+, with a priest, they go back to being equal (wound on 2+/3+ against Sv 5+/6+)

 

These numbers below are total wounds per attack, not damage, and as such over inflate the axe's worth. I've added the number of unsaved wounds that go through for each weapon on yours....and it's exactly as I said above. The one that gets to use all it's bonuses is the best. Axe and sword are statistically identical vT4 3+ in a vacuum.

 

Things like T3, 5+ saves negate both the Axe's S, as both A+S wound on 2+, and the extra point of AP on the sword. Again, if a model has an invun, then that negates the sword's benefits. Axe+Sword would be identical on T3 4++ models like harlequins, with the fist objectively worse. 

 

If you assume no priest, -1S is the same as +1T so use the appropriate table below for those values...all weapons are pretty identical against T4 3+ saves.

 

With everythng it boils down to what's in the rest of the army. If you can guarantee priest support, then go swords, or axes if youre facing T5. If you guarantee the warlord near them, go fists. 

 

Actually, since you usually want to have a Sanguinary Priest near your Sanguinary Guard blob, it barely makes any noteworthy difference.

 

Assuming a Priest nearby we are looking at,

 

Against T1-4:

Swords hit on 3+, wound on 2+ = 0.55 = 0.45wounds v 3+Sv

Axes hit on 3+, wound on 2+ = 0.55 = 0.36 wounds

Fists hit on 4+, wound on 2+ = 0.42 = 0.45

 

Against T5:

Swords hit on 3+, wound on 3+ = 0.44 = 0.36

Axes hit on 3+, wound on 2+ = 0.55 = 0.36

Fists hit on 4+, wound on 2+ = 0.42 = 0.35

 

Against T6 3+:

Swords hit on 3+, wound on 4+ = 0.44 = 0.28

Axes hit on 3+, wound on 3+ = 0.55 = 0.30

Fists hit on 4+, wound on 2+ = 0.42 = 0.35

 

Against T7-8:

Swords hit on 3+, wound on 4+ = 0.33 = 0.28

Axes hit on 3+, wound on 4+ = 0.33 = 0.26

Fists hit on 4+, wound on 2+ = 0.42 = 0.35

 

Edit for clarity.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Xenith

[RyanT2112]

 

 

Are we forgetting Red Thirst?

 

No - my example was of an axe wounding T5 on a 3+ - S4 normal, 5 from the axe, +1 from RT. 

 

The point I was inarticulating was said better above.

 

The 'best one' provides the most benefits. If you have a priest nearby, your axes are already wounding T4 on 2's, so are overkill. Against T5, 3+, with a priest, they go back to being equal (wound on 2+/3+ against Sv 5+/6+)

 

These numbers below are total wounds per attack, not damage, and as such over inflate the axe's worth. I've added the number of unsaved wounds that go through for each weapon on yours....and it's exactly as I said above. The one that gets to use all it's bonuses is the best. Axe and sword are statistically identical vT4 3+ in a vacuum.

 

Things like T3, 5+ saves negate both the Axe's S, as both A+S wound on 2+, and the extra point of AP on the sword. Again, if a model has an invun, then that negates the sword's benefits. Axe+Sword would be identical on T3 4++ models like harlequins, with the fist objectively worse. 

 

If you assume no priest, -1S is the same as +1T so use the appropriate table below for those values...all weapons are pretty identical against T4 3+ saves.

 

With everythng it boils down to what's in the rest of the army. If you can guarantee priest support, then go swords, or axes if youre facing T5. If you guarantee the warlord near them, go fists. 

 

Actually, since you usually want to have a Sanguinary Priest near your Sanguinary Guard blob, it barely makes any noteworthy difference.

 

Assuming a Priest nearby we are looking at,

 

Against T1-4:

Swords hit on 3+, wound on 2+ = 0.55 = 0.45wounds v 3+Sv

Axes hit on 3+, wound on 2+ = 0.55 = 0.36 wounds

Fists hit on 4+, wound on 2+ = 0.42 = 0.45

 

Against T5:

Swords hit on 3+, wound on 3+ = 0.44 = 0.36

Axes hit on 3+, wound on 2+ = 0.55 = 0.36

Fists hit on 4+, wound on 2+ = 0.42 = 0.35

 

Against T6 3+:

Swords hit on 3+, wound on 4+ = 0.44 = 0.28

Axes hit on 3+, wound on 3+ = 0.55 = 0.30

Fists hit on 4+, wound on 2+ = 0.42 = 0.35

 

Against T7-8:

Swords hit on 3+, wound on 4+ = 0.33 = 0.28

Axes hit on 3+, wound on 4+ = 0.33 = 0.26

Fists hit on 4+, wound on 2+ = 0.42 = 0.35

 

Edit for clarity.

 

 

 

Oh! Yeah I agree fully except that now that the detachments are annoying.... we have to spend CP to gain a Patrol so we can add extra characters. OR we just run with less support and more solo models. Meaning you're most likely not running a priest unless you want cheap HQs.

 

The 'beat sticks' are going to likely be Judiciars (ELITE SLOTS) who can hide behind waves of troops and such....

 

Making a 'death star' isn't as viable with character assistance because the characters then get exposed once it dies easily or once parts of it die...

 

You basically need to rely on Elite slots for Terminator Ancient (If you want re-rolls for terminators) -- Sanguinary Ancient (if you want a LT that works for melee, without using a valuable character slot).....

 

Unfortunately the days of the Supreme Command are gone. Unless Dante gains the SUPREME COMMANDER rule (which he should have given the lore) then we don't gain HQ slots.

[Spagunk]

I still believe Dante should get a "Katakros" level display model. Or rather "silent king" since that's going to be a thing now.

Speaking of, it would have been fantastic if they included a death mask on Silent King's model somewhere.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Spagunk

[RyanT2112]

I still believe Dante should get a "Katakros" level display model. Or rather "silent king" since that's going to be a thing now.

 

Speaking of, it would have been fantastic if they included a death mask on Silent King's model somewhere.

Yes plz.

 

Did you all notice that the Sanguinary Guard rose in points, but they made Death Masks 0..... meaning that its really not a choice to take them. They folded the points in so you have to take them.

 

Thats ok, -1 LD now is actually useful...

[Indefragable]

 

I still believe Dante should get a "Katakros" level display model. Or rather "silent king" since that's going to be a thing now.

 

Speaking of, it would have been fantastic if they included a death mask on Silent King's model somewhere.

Yes plz.

 

Did you all notice that the Sanguinary Guard rose in points, but they made Death Masks 0..... meaning that its really not a choice to take them. They folded the points in so you have to take them.

 

Thats ok, -1 LD now is actually useful...

 

 

The -1 To Hit stratagem for units with Death Masks is YUGE.

[Remtek]

I think they increased old marines a bit to much. Primaris are not really floating my boat. Been playing BA for many editions now, but it might be time to move on.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

I think they increased old marines a bit to much. Primaris are not really floating my boat. Been playing BA for many editions now, but it might be time to move on.

I know the feeling, my Thousand Sons are taking more and more importance.

[The Unseen]

In what world are tacticals worth 3/4 of an intercessor?

Cause it ain't this one.

Buy a special weapon and a squad of 5 is almost the same, which is ridiculous.

[Indefragable]

Put all the above into a spreadsheet to compare. Man, haven't done that in forever. Battlescribe is a crutch. 

 

The list (what I planned on taking to my last chance at a game before Covid, so not super optimized, but my basis of comparison) :

Hidden Content

 

Blood Angels Brigade

 

HQ:

Captain

-jump pack

-thunder hammer

-storm shield

 

Chaplain

-jump pack

-power fist

 

Chief Librarian Mephiston

 

TROOPS:

Incursor x 5

-haywire mine

 

Incursor x 5

-haywire mine

 

Incursor x 5

-haywire mine

 

Incursor x 5

-haywire mine

 

Scouts x 5

-combat knife x 4

-bolt pistol x 4

-Sgt chainsword

-Sgt bolter

 

Scouts x 5

-bolter x 4

-heavy bolter x 1

-Sgt chainsword

-Sgt bolter

 

ELITES:

Sanguinary Guard x 5

-power fist x 5

-angelus boltgun x 5

-death mask x 5

 

Sanguinary Guard x 5

-power fist x 5

-angelus boltgun x 5

-death mask x 5

 

Sanguinary Ancient 

-encarmine sword

-angelus boltgun

-death mask

 

Vanguard Veteran x 5

-jump packs

-stormshield + chainsword x 4

-Sgt thunder hammer

-Sgt inferno pistol

 

Vanguard Veteran x 5

-jump packs

-stormshield + chainsword x 4

-Sgt thunder hammer

-Sgt inferno pistol

 

FAST ATTACK:

Suppressors x 3

 

Scout Bikes x 3

-Sgt Storm bolter

 

Inceptors x 3

-plasma exterminators x 3

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Eliminators x 3

-bolt sniper rifles

 

Eliminators x 3

-bolt sniper rifles

 

Eliminators x 3

-bolt sniper rifles

 

 

If my math is correct (again, Battlescribe's been my crutch, so hopefully I calculated this correctly), then:

 

• 8th Ed: 1999pts
• 9th Ed: 2301pts

 

I am quite curious to see how my local scene adjusts to this. If less models to conform to the arbitrary 2000pt game size is the way people go, or if as others have predicted, 2500pts becomes the new norm.