Wolves in the new marine codex

[TiguriusX]

I’d expect a large change to some of our stuff. I don’t see Wolf Guard Terminators keeping our unique weapons choices. We may lose armor of Russ. Both changes can be fixed in the supplement. It’s really too early to tell. We have until October to play with what we have. Enjoy it while we can. We might be in for a cold winter.

 

Don't you put that evil on me!!!!

 

I just got my terminators all the supplies and gear they need for a campaign back to glory

[Valerian]

 

My bet for the heavy Intercessors are heavy weapons and not gravis.

 

Supposedly the new Gravis Captain has a Master-crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle, so I'm guessing the Heavy Intercessors will have regular versions of the Heavy Bolt Rifle (whatever that ends up being).  And, they might be in Gravis, like the Captain, or not.  Either way, I'm intrigued.

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

 

 

My bet for the heavy Intercessors are heavy weapons and not gravis.

Supposedly the new Gravis Captain has a Master-crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle, so I'm guessing the Heavy Intercessors will have regular versions of the Heavy Bolt Rifle (whatever that ends up being). And, they might be in Gravis, like the Captain, or not. Either way, I'm intrigued.

That would make sense. It looks like there is to be a battleline squad for phobos, tacticus and gravis.

[Dark Shepherd]

I’m pretty excited about the gladiator tanks. I have to go back over the weapons options but a double heavy onslaught gating cannon sounds spicy.

Spitballing points

Rhino is 75 predator is 90

Impulsor is 100 Gladiator is 115/120 base?

 

Twin heavy onslaught 60

Fragstorm 2 x 5

Tempest bolters 8 each?

 

So about 216/220 for that loadout?

[Wolf Guard Dan]

 

 

I’d expect a large change to some of our stuff. I don’t see Wolf Guard Terminators keeping our unique weapons choices. We may lose armor of Russ. Both changes can be fixed in the supplement. It’s really too early to tell. We have until October to play with what we have. Enjoy it while we can. We might be in for a cold winter.

Don't you put that evil on me!!!!

 

I just got my terminators all the supplies and gear they need for a campaign back to glory

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst. Like Grimblood I see the future in the fire. Hoping I’m wrong.

 

 

I’m pretty excited about the gladiator tanks. I have to go back over the weapons options but a double heavy onslaught gating cannon sounds spicy.

Spitballing points

Rhino is 75 predator is 90

Impulsor is 100 Gladiator is 115/120 base?

 

Twin heavy onslaught 60

Fragstorm 2 x 5

Tempest bolters 8 each?

 

So about 216/220 for that loadout?

It’s a lot of shots. it may be 8th edition thinking on my part. We may need more anti armor than anti horde shooting. I really like the aesthetic of the tank and I have plenty of magnets.

[Bulwyf]

I am not happy that we are being delegated to after thoughts in the vanilla SM codex.

 

My immediate question is does this new rule for SW mean we lose the exploding 6's on Assault doctrine that we currently have? Or is that in addition to it? We also seem to be losing the 6 inch HI. For with the change to HI in 9th meaning your HI units can be targeted and I'm assuming attacked before they can fight this really nerfs any advantage to HI. Having our units that aren't characters be able to HI on a 3" range in 9th does not strike me as being that good. 

 

It also pigeon holes your army into being nothing but an assault army. Not ideal. I also am baffled that you guys seem to like this restriction that you can only take one lord per detachment. Since 9th edition means you essentially will never want to take more than one detachment why would you want to only have one character that can reroll hits? I don't even know what qualifies as a "lieutenant"  choice. I don't bother with Primaris HQ choices so does this mean you can't take Iron Priests, Bjorn, Murderfang, Wolf Priests, Arjac etc?

 

This news should have more people upset. You really want us to have to wait until who knows how long for a supplement while we're given more rules to reflect the SW fluff and lore? 

[Guest Triszin]

Lieutenant = wolf gaurd battle leader

[TiguriusX]

The 1 lord/captain rule is good because it removes many BS lists from the game. It also attempts to remove reroll everything combos from the game.

 

You still have the option to cram 3 detachments if you need 3 lords but it will cost you.

 

We have many sources of rerolls to overcome the problem

 

Wolf priest litanies and stratagems Grant rerolls

 

Dreadnought can be turned into a reroll bubble using wisdom of the ancients

[C0deb1ue]

I think the problem generally is that our rules don’t reflect our fluff at all. Fluff says epic assault army... gameplay is completely different,,, so if you try play space wolves like the fluff you will just get annihilated. Edited July 25, 2020 by C0deb1ue

[Guest Triszin]

I would say fluff wise, Wolves are a medium to close range cqc army.

 

Wolves should rule the day within charge range, and not necessarily charging.

 

I.e.

Something AKIN to truegrit for all "bolt weapons" army wide, making them into a pistol  type within 0-8"

Edited July 25, 2020 by Triszin

[Valerian]

I am not happy that we are being delegated to after thoughts in the vanilla SM codex.

Hyperbole. Space Wolves will get their own full supplement, just like Raven Guard, Iron Hands, and all of those other Chapters got in 8th. When 90% of all Adeptus Astartes units are the same, then it makes sense to consolidate all of the shared units into one book, and use Supplements to cover the unique units.

 

 

My immediate question is does this new rule for SW mean we lose the exploding 6's on Assault doctrine that we currently have?

 

Possibly. We'll have to wait and see what is in store. Considering we literally just got Savage Fury a few months back, I'd be surprised if they were going to take it back away already.

 

It also pigeon holes your army into being nothing but an assault army. Not ideal.

Not exactly pigeon-holed, but pretty much all of the 8e Space Wolves special rules and stratagems were already pushing us in that direction. Might as well embrace that, and leverage the advantages given.

 

I also am baffled that you guys seem to like this restriction that you can only take one lord per detachment. Since 9th edition means you essentially will never want to take more than one detachment why would you want to only have one character that can reroll hits? I don't even know what qualifies as a "lieutenant"  choice. I don't bother with Primaris HQ choices so does this mean you can't take Iron Priests, Bjorn, Murderfang, Wolf Priests, Arjac etc?

 

Those of us that are happy with the restriction are, because it is more fluffy.  Never really made sense to let folks take multiple commanders (Captains/Wolf Lords) in the same detachment (who's in charge here?).  A Wolf Guard Battle Leader is the equivalent to a Lieutenant.  So, you're detachment can't have more than one Wolf Lord (makes sense, as you should only have one "boss"), and up to two Battle Leaders (also makes sense, since each Great Company has two Battle Leaders, according to updated/retconned fluff that came in our 8th edition Codex).

 

You can certainly take Iron Priests, Bjorn, Murderfang, and all of the others you listed, because there is no requirement to take any Wolf Lords or Battle Leaders.  You get to pick whatever 3 HQ you want, in a Battalion Detachment, just like always.  Only change is that you can no longer bring 3 Smash Lords (at least not without paying CP to add more detachments).

 

 

This news should have more people upset. You really want us to have to wait until who knows how long for a supplement while we're given more rules to reflect the SW fluff and lore?

 

It isn't likely to take very long at all to get our Supplement once the base Space Marine codex drops in October.  If I recall correctly, the 6 Supplements that currently exist for the other Space Marine Chapters were dropped in pretty rapid succession.

[Brother Tyler]

Although I've long been an advocate for a single Space Marines codex with codex supplements for everyone else (the lone exception being the Grey Knights), and I've been in the other forums (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch) voicing my support for the move, the Space Wolves are the only Chapter where I have concerns. I think that the consolidation can be done successfully and with little or no loss of character, but the Space Wolves are so divergent from the Codex Astartes that getting their codex supplement correct will take some work. The main advantage is that, having only Ultima Founding Successors, the pages that the other Chapters have allocated to their Successors (9 pages for the Crimson Fists in the Imperial Fists codex supplement) can be utilized in preserving the proper level of Space Wolves goodness (though it would be nice to see a page or two devoted to Successors).

 

Still, hateful as it might sound to some of you, I think this is a good opportunity to curb some of the cartoonish wolfiness of the Chapter, and it will definitely help to prevent things from getting more cartoony in the future. For what it's worth, I feel the same about this being an opportunity to curb some of the Blood Blood Bloodiness of the Blood Angels.

 

As an exercise, if you were to remove all of the material that is duplicated in the current Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Space Wolves, how much would be left? How many of the units might require small changes to distinguish them from their codex counterparts? What other changes might be necessary to allow a seamless transition from Codex: Space Marines rules to Codex: Space Wolves rules?

 

My going in assumption is that none of the rolled Chapters will lose anything (though that's purely a guess on my part). The only codex supplement I have is for the Imperial Fists, which is 64 pages. Could the distinctive elements of 8th edition Codex: Space Wolves fit in a 64 page codex supplement? Not all codex supplements need to be equal, however, so if the Blood Angels/Dark Angels/Deathwatch/Space Wolves codices have more than 64 pages worth of distinctive material, how likely would it be for GW to give larger codex supplements to those Chapters that need them?

[Valerian]

Still, hateful as it might sound to some of you, I think this is a good opportunity to curb some of the cartoonish wolfiness of the Chapter, and it will definitely help to prevent things from getting more cartoony in the future. For what it's worth, I feel the same about this being an opportunity to curb some of the Blood Blood Bloodiness of the Blood Angels.

 

Yeah, that's definitely a valid point.  Phil Kelly went a little overboard with cartoonish wolfiness in his 5th edition codex (Canis Wolfborn, really?), so it would definitely be nice to back off from that a bit.

[Bulwyf]

 

I am not happy that we are being delegated to after thoughts in the vanilla SM codex.

Hyperbole. Space Wolves will get their own full supplement, just like Raven Guard, Iron Hands, and all of those other Chapters got in 8th. When 90% of all Adeptus Astartes units are the same, then it makes sense to consolidate all of the shared units into one book, and use Supplements to cover the unique units.

 

 

My immediate question is does this new rule for SW mean we lose the exploding 6's on Assault doctrine that we currently have?

 

Possibly. We'll have to wait and see what is in store. Considering we literally just got Savage Fury a few months back, I'd be surprised if they were going to take it back away already.

 

It also pigeon holes your army into being nothing but an assault army. Not ideal.

Not exactly pigeon-holed, but pretty much all of the 8e Space Wolves special rules and stratagems were already pushing us in that direction. Might as well embrace that, and leverage the advantages given.

 

I also am baffled that you guys seem to like this restriction that you can only take one lord per detachment. Since 9th edition means you essentially will never want to take more than one detachment why would you want to only have one character that can reroll hits? I don't even know what qualifies as a "lieutenant"  choice. I don't bother with Primaris HQ choices so does this mean you can't take Iron Priests, Bjorn, Murderfang, Wolf Priests, Arjac etc?

 

Those of us that are happy with the restriction are, because it is more fluffy.  Never really made sense to let folks take multiple commanders (Captains/Wolf Lords) in the same detachment (who's in charge here?).  A Wolf Guard Battle Leader is the equivalent to a Lieutenant.  So, you're detachment can't have more than one Wolf Lord (makes sense, as you should only have one "boss"), and up to two Battle Leaders (also makes sense, since each Great Company has two Battle Leaders, according to updated/retconned fluff that came in our 8th edition Codex).

 

You can certainly take Iron Priests, Bjorn, Murderfang, and all of the others you listed, because there is no requirement to take any Wolf Lords or Battle Leaders.  You get to pick whatever 3 HQ you want, in a Battalion Detachment, just like always.  Only change is that you can no longer bring 3 Smash Lords (at least not without paying CP to add more detachments).

 

 

This news should have more people upset. You really want us to have to wait until who knows how long for a supplement while we're given more rules to reflect the SW fluff and lore?

 

It isn't likely to take very long at all to get our Supplement once the base Space Marine codex drops in October.  If I recall correctly, the 6 Supplements that currently exist for the other Space Marine Chapters were dropped in pretty rapid succession.

 

 

 

So just to be clear I can take 3 HQ in my battalion slot Logan, Ragnar and Bjorn? All three give rerolls. Is that allowed or prohibited? Our chapter has more characters because it has always shown in the fluff and lore that the Chapter heroes regularly work together.

[Valerian]

Ragnar and Logan both have the Wolf Lord tag, so you'd only be able to take one of those.  You could take either with Bjorn, though, as he does not have a Wolf Lord keyword.

 

Now, if Logan ends up becoming a Supreme Commander tag in the upcoming supplement, then you could take all three, because he'd be in his own separate (free) detachment anyway.  He may or may not get that, though, but there were rumors that Chapter Masters might get that keyword added later.  

[PeteySödes]

I’m not so concerned with the codex stuff, 3rd was a great time after all. I still just feel a bit burnt with the rapid releases and not actually getting to use saga fully.

 

I do think the lord/lt thing is fine and fluffy too. We’ll see how it plays out. Logan getting supreme would certainly be interesting. So far it’s just been LoW HQs though right? Have we seen a confirmation of a chapter master level character getting a Supreme tag?

[Valerian]

 

 Logan getting supreme would certainly be interesting. So far it’s just been LoW HQs though right? Have we seen a confirmation of a chapter master level character getting a Supreme tag?

 

So far it's been only Primarchs and Daemon Primarchs confirmed, yes.  Definitely no confirmation on anything else, just rumors.  And those rumors originated with how some of the Play-testers for 9th had voiced certain things about building armies in their 9e test games.

[PeteySödes]

Cool that’s what I figured, he (absurdly) used to be a low though so who knows lol.

[PeteySödes]

=][= We’ve been doing a commendable job so far staying on topic and discussing these changes civilly, let’s keep that streak going Brothers. =][=

[Karack Blackstone]

While the SW Supplement might cost more for all of our rules, the benefit will be that we might just gain access to fun options like Grav, Centurions, Stormravens, and yet still keep all of our super killy kits that make the Wolves so deadly at CC.

 

Now, we can't likely use Tac Squads and MUST instead take Grey Hunters, however I don't recall fully, aren't even BA's forced to not take CSwd's on their Tac Squads? Only Wolves can take CSwd's across all their Tac equivalent packs?

 

And then there's the BC's shenanigans we can pull, albeit the LRC with WP, WGPL, BCPL, and 13 BC's tooled to taste is a rather killy death star, for it's relative performance, that unit hitting and shredding things pretty well if and yes, a very big IF, if BC's, GH's, and other NorMarines can get Astartes Chainswords.

 

What strikes me as brilliant about this is that while it takes two books, it seriously opens up many, MANY possibilities for the SW's to flesh out pretty major portions of the "missing" SM range. I think that overall this option will only aid us, while just increasing our uniqueness thanks to the SW Supplement packing all of our replacement, custom, and if need be, which now is starting to make no sense, not allowed units and upgrades list.

[Guest Triszin]

I will say this.

 

Don't assume we gain access to anything we don't have access to.

 

Until it's in print or PDF errata, then we do not have access.

 

Long term, the only safe unit from the old range is wulfen. Those were retooled to be primaris scale. And represent both old/new.

[StrangerOrders]

Havent brought out my wolves for a while but wanted to comment after seeing this (and having dusted them off to justify the Ragnar I got) and was hoping to rock them again in 9th.

 

My fear is for the future of the models since we all know Firstborn's days are numbered.

 

I think if we are lucky the SW conversion kit will be upgraded to what the Salies, RG and WS got.

 

But I see most named chars not crossing the Rubicon and most of the unique units not making it to Primaris Versions. 

 

Its a shame because the Wolves have a gorgeous range and I think their look would have filled the plainness of Primaris quite nicely to go by Ragnar.

 

This fear is predicated on the non-compliant chapters seeming to be being cut down to compliant (the other Supplements) size.

Edited July 26, 2020 by StrangerOrders

[Karack Blackstone]

Agreed in both cases.

 

However, as far as how GW seems to be running things, the single biggest travesty, the loss of NorMarines, seems both eventual and utterly untimely. Ever.

 

Still, I think we all agree that if GW gives SW's more access, perhaps not full, yes, it needs to be official. Still, the Codex: Space Marines might be a good and efficient way to do just that.

 

What I love about Wolves is their character, and by extension, their characters. Heck, to type it, even GH's are still characterful, so much more so than Tactical Squads. I realize they fundamentally fulfill the same role, and are basically nearly the same unit. However what drew me to Wolves in the first place is their independence, doing the right thing, and that even a basic, rank and file Grey Hunter is well on their way to starting to forge a Saga. One day, even a simple, humble Grey Hunter packmate might be elevated to the Wolf Guard.

 

And I think that's the most major selling point about the Space Wolves. Heroism, throughout the army. And, at least until Curse of the Wulfen, they as a Loyalist Chapter always did the right thing by the Imperial Citizen. That above all is why I chose the Wolves, the VI'th Legion, to be my force.

 

What I just wish is that, overall, GW can find a balance. Codex: Space Marines along with Codex Supplement: Space Wolves should create a better force, not merely a modified one.

 

And that can be hard. We should know more by year's end, likely at the latest.

[GrFlur]

Guys I'm the only one that has an itch under the skin since primaris came out?

 

I feel like someone is trying to skin my pelt and pulling out my fangs.

 

I hear long and distant voices singing The wall - Pink Floid and cold sweet goes down my spine...

 

They are trying, and being succefull, to make us Codex Compliant ...

 

Raise your howls brothers and fight this wyrd. My soul mourns for all the sheep within our ranks 

[Debauchery101]

I'm just wondering/hoping that when we get the codex as a base for SW that we get access to the chapter masters upgrades