Wolves in the new marine codex

[sturguard]

Dan,

 

I'm not sure. Yes, GW has stepped up their release schedule, but can you really say their quality control is better?

 

1. Missed the Sagas in our last codex- to make matters worse, they never even did anything about it other than put a PDF online. They didnt bother to update in PA or CA- overlooked or didn't care? Why weren't later releases fixed?

 

2. New App- you can't deny that was a total rush job and should never have been released, to do so is pretty inexcusable. 

3. FW sw terminators having their combibolters upside down, then GW persisting that was the way they were supposed to be.

4. Not to mention it seems every single codex/supplement needs a FAQ upon its release- can they not create a product that doesnt require a FAQ?

 

My GW circle is pretty much just wolves, Ill bet there are other instances with other books that I have no idea of. My point isnt to bash GW, my point is that they are driven by profit, the same as they were 30...20...10 years ago. Some of their practices may be considered better, but honestly some of them are worse, pretty much just what you wanted from them.

 

However, I will still maintain their customer service is second to none, and that hasnt changed in 30 years, its probably why they are still around to be honest. 

 

I do want to say, it's not doom and gloom to be hesitant on what their release schedule will be for the supplements as the only example we have to go off is 3rd edition. Maybe things will be better, maybe not, we can only wait and see. 

 

Finally, I would like to clear things up, to hold GW accountable for their goods and service is not pessimism, its not doom and gloom, it honestly should be a practice each and every one of us does, just like we do for every other product we buy from any other company. I'm not giving them a break just because they sell toy soldiers. And you can really like Games Workshop and still hold them accountable.

Edited July 27, 2020 by sturguard

[Wolf Guard Dan]

I’d say that their quality control has probably been about the same but maybe better. It’s definitely more unwieldy for them with so many factions. It should be better. But the good thing is that their response has been faster. The sagas missing from the codex did stink, but they did fix that with a pdf quickly. And now codexes do have that printed in there.

 

I haven’t bothered with the app. Didn’t they say this was a bit of a beta release for the app? They shouldn’t be charging for it until it’s ready.

 

FAQ’s are here to stay. There’s always going to be unintended rules interactions that require cleanup.

 

I’m totally on board With calling out GW. Critique is an important part of improvement. Since eighth they’ve been listening to their customers more than ever.

[Karack Blackstone]

GW has done a MUCH better job of cleaning up their messes.

 

Also the customers, AKA fans, have done a much better job of letting them know and then the return is often better handled now than ever before.

 

Do we all likely wish they'd stop making errors? Yes.

 

Isn't it human nature to make mistakes? Forgiveness is fine; fixing it is the better track record on GW's part these days.

[PeteySödes]

Solid points all around. My comments about 3rd are mainly pointed to being a unique and thematic army to assuage fears about being to homogenized. I played wolves, Templars, and dark eldar during that time so I can confirm it’s certainly true during that time period that the updates were very slow so if you were in a bad place...RIP for several years.

 

I think current release schedule being what it is, there’s reason to be optimistic if you are competitive in any sense or have been frustrated in some of the delays in getting basic QoL updates.

[StrangerOrders]

I feel that I should restate what my fears are in a different way since I think that folks might have misunderstood my unease.

 

My worries are for the future of the range.

 

Firstborn dying out is something I have made my peace with, but that acceptance requires casting an eye as to what the future will entail.

 

We need more Wolf-Specific Primaris kits if they are to retain their uniqueness, since GW is not exactly ambiguous about prioritizing models over rules. Things without explicit models dont tend to get alot of love these days.

 

My fear is therefore that with a reduction to Supplement status the best we might hope for is an upgrade kit the likes of what the WS, IF, Sallies and RG got with maybe another character crossing the Rubicon if we are extremely fortunate.

 

In the long run, that would eventually see us reduced to little more than punchy marines with an exotic paintjob, like one distinct head per squad and a carved wolf shoulderpad.

 

What would reassure me? If we got something akin to the Grey Slayer Box for Intercessors, charging a bit more for a ton of really specifically wolf stuff like rune-etched, fetish-strewn armor and wolf tails that can be used across the rest of the army.

 

I can accept the bulk of our characters getting slashed, since that seems unavoidable due to the sheer amount of new releases GW would classify those as. 

 

But I think even hoping for that much, which is what I was hoping for before this announcement, is at this point optimistic to the point of delusional now with this announcement.

 

Not saying that you are some sort of inferior person if you think a supplement of rules and a very rudimentary upgrade kit with Ragnar there too is enough for you. But that just doesn't appeal to me personally.

 

EDIT: To be clear, this is the route I'm expecting the other noncompliants to go down as well.

Edited July 27, 2020 by StrangerOrders

[Karack Blackstone]

The Legending of NorMarines, the classic range, will be GW killing GW.

 

Games Workshop alone can kill itself; if they choose to retire the Space Marine, non Primaris range, Ever, they might as well shoot themselves in the foot.

 

And it should likely prove the death knell of the company.

 

While likely, I still consider it a potential travesty.

 

So, who's willing to not buy GW product unless / until GW says, NorMarines are here to stay, long term?

 

I think with so many classic armies under threat, it's a worthwhile question.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

StrangerOrders, i understand your concerns. All of them can come true. My personal view is it won’t be so dire.

 

I don’t expect firstborn to get any new kits outside of grey knights. I do expect we will get chapter specific kits. Space Wolves is one of the most popular factions. We will get our due eventually.

 

Firstborn still have utility. Don’t give up on them so quickly. I don’t think first born get squatted either. I hate rumor mongering but I still expect a 2w baseline on our MEQ. Valerian sorry can’t share where I heard it. And I thought it was dead when 9th came out with no change. But aggregating all the marines into one codex makes this change easier to do. I will probably be totally wrong on this. :)

[Medjugorje]

Why? You lose nothing in the way of individual rules and it means less admin when they expand the marine lines as it will always fall in line with the main book.

 

When I started the hobby the wolves were a supplement and it didn't exactly harm them.

it depends on how GW will do that. As Black Templars we had the same discussion back in 2013 and I was concerned about this direction. And it turns out I was (sadly) right.

 

But we will see it in the future.

[Gherrick]

The Legending of NorMarines, the classic range, will be GW killing GW.

If this was true, then GW would have died when changing from metal to resin/plastic.

 

While I am not happy with their handling of the primaris rollout, it's actually more the how than the what. GW rarely shares future plans, so we all must speculate IF (let alone WHEN) any such sprues will be available, and how much of it is actually useful (I bought at least 10 upgrade sprues for the shoulder pads, and used maybe 2-3 other bits out of the remaining 8-10 bits per sprue).

[Medjugorje]

 

 

yep.

 

everyone can heroic intervene, everyone gains +1 to hit if charge/heroic intervenes.

 

 

interesting note, IM certain this will be patched to say infantry only.

 

because that means we can heroically intervene with vehicles?

HI is so bad this edition that I don’t think it matters who can do it. 3inches is played around incredibly easily.

 

Black Templar’s chapter trait is starting to look good.

 

this edition is all about holding objectives. HI could be soooo strong. I think your CT is far better then the Black Templar one.

[WickedJester1013]

How long was the wait for white scars and the blue bois? I feel it was very short wait

[Valerian]

How long was the wait for white scars and the blue bois? I feel it was very short wait

A week or two, I think.

[WickedJester1013]

That’s what I thought. I’m optimistic for the stuff, but wolves will always be my favorite chapter even if everything space wolf comes from me. We could have the exact rules as everyone else and I’d still play space wolves. Of course that being said I’m always happy with more lol

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

 

How long was the wait for white scars and the blue bois? I feel it was very short wait

A week or two, I think.

I'm pretty sure they got all 6 out within 3 months of the codex drop. So even if they did 1 per month the latest would be January and I doubt they will wait that long

[Dewi Sant]

 

 

How long was the wait for white scars and the blue bois? I feel it was very short wait

A week or two, I think.

I'm pretty sure they got all 6 out within 3 months of the codex drop. So even if they did 1 per month the latest would be January and I doubt they will wait that long

I can see our supplement dropping at the end of Nov beginning of Dec. We’ve had the drop around Xmas before.

[Karack Blackstone]

SW's do seem to be stuck with the winter theme, don't they?

[C0deb1ue]

 

 

 

 

yep.

 

everyone can heroic intervene, everyone gains +1 to hit if charge/heroic intervenes.

 

 

interesting note, IM certain this will be patched to say infantry only.

 

because that means we can heroically intervene with vehicles?

HI is so bad this edition that I don’t think it matters who can do it. 3inches is played around incredibly easily.

 

Black Templar’s chapter trait is starting to look good.

this edition is all about holding objectives. HI could be soooo strong. I think your CT is far better then the Black Templar one.

I unfortunately was being a little sarcastic. The BT chapter trait is pretty bad and ours is hardly much better.

 

BA & WS continue to have decent chapter traits and will likely remain the premier CQC armies as they can be delivered and arguably hit as hard as we do.

 

I think we kinda drew the short straw for both our chapter trait and super-doctrine.It doesn’t make much of a difference as if I was playing wolves because they had good rules/were competitive, I would have already stopped playing them last edition.

[sturguard]

Im not sure how you guys can read that, you must not have 50 year old eyes. What are the BA and WS CTs? 

 

So on a side note, I'm starting a thread on the future of GW and would like you guys to weigh in. 

[C0deb1ue]

Im not sure how you guys can read that, you must not have 50 year old eyes. What are the BA and WS CTs?

 

So on a side note, I'm starting a thread on the future of GW and would like you guys to weigh in.

BA

1. +1 to wound when charging, charged or heroically intervening

2. +1 to advance and charge rolls

 

WS

1. Can Charge after advance or fall back

2. Can fire assault with no penalty after an advance move

[sturguard]

Wow, I would think charging after an advance is very strong.

[The Saint Ragnar]

We can do both but that requires our Sagas to go off and then it is only an aura. I certainly would like to have it all game all the time but given we can get that and our other buffs makes us more reward for careful choices and play. So not a hammer but a scalpel

[TiguriusX]

Wow, I would think charging after an advance is very strong.

White scars are indeed amazing.

 

I played with their codex and did counts as SW while waiting for our official codex to drop.

 

If I wasn't a stubborn SW I would love using WS in tournaments

[Iain_Stormeyes]

 

Wow, I would think charging after an advance is very strong.

White scars are indeed amazing.

 

I played with their codex and did counts as SW while waiting for our official codex to drop.

 

If I wasn't a stubborn SW I would love using WS in tournaments

 

 

I'm buying Kor'Sarro Khan and might be going to Tournaments as WS in the future depending on how Wolves points and rules shake out.

[Valerian]

We make up with it by having the entire army Objective Secured (except for Fenrisian Wolves and Servitors). In the 9e mission environment, that’s a much better army special rule.

[C0deb1ue]

We probably have to make sure that’s intended before relying on ob sec.

We can do both but that requires our Sagas to go off and then it is only an aura. I certainly would like to have it all game all the time but given we can get that and our other buffs makes us more reward for careful choices and play. So not a hammer but a scalpel

Until our sagas start activating n the same turn, they really are pretty weak as warlord traits go. You have to do way too much for them to be useful