First go at a 9th edition roster

[Cruor Vault]

The characters, Leviathan, and Contemptors stick together to form the center of the army.  Vehicles are much better at protecting characters in 9th, so no need for Intercessors in this list.  With 7 Scout deploy units, and up to 6 pre-game redeployments (3 from Lord of Deceipt, 3 from Rapid Redeployment) it will be extremely hard to lock this list down from getting where it needs to be early game.  

 

I swapped from my typical Quad Lascannon Relic Contemptors to DCCW Twin Las and Cyclone loadouts because of the huge improvements melee Dreads got.  Each is fully capable of one-shotting most T7 W10 vehicles with just a little luck or a well placed re-roll.  The Invictors apply significant forward threat to enemy backfield units if I go first, or can pull back to reinforce the ball of Dreads if they're in danger when I go second.  The Relic Contemptors are also fully capable of operating on their own as they can pop Wisdom of the Ancients for to-hit re-rolls and use command re-roll for wounding/damage.

 

I do think there is a case for The Indomitus Discipline to make a return in 9th.  Especially if the new <CHAPTER>Core mechanic is the dreaded nerf to FW units we've been living in fear or.  Smaller tables should make the re-roll from Scryer's gaze easier to pull off, and the increased likelihood of characters being shot at makes the 5++ and -1 to be hit much more valuable on Tigurius now. Phychic Shackles is pretty much the only choice for the third slot, and whilst heavily situational, might be of some use given the increased amount of combats 9th will have.

 

Incursors have a lot of nifty tricks for keeping themselves safe.  Stacking their smoke grenades and obscuring cover can negate most bonuses to hit and with a marine statline they're able to find off most other factions smaller units for a round or two of melee.  They also have the added bonus of being able to fall back and shoot without penalty due to their targeting arrays and with the prevalence of cover in 9th are typically going to have a better functional AP than Intercessors.  Paired Combat Blades also gives them a tiny boost over Intercessors (though that balances out once Intercessor Sergeants gain access to the new chainsword rules).

 

I am not totally sold on Eliminators being a requirement for 9th.  Initially It will probably be easy to blow out units protecting heroes, but I think as people become more adept at the 9th edition mechanics snipers will come back into play.

 

The Leviathan only going up by 47pts is a HUGE bonus for him.  He was already amazing, and the smaller table size and ability to shoot into CC with his storm cannons makes most people MUCH less inclined to try to charge the dreads and lock them up.

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Ultramarines) [99 PL, 13CP, 1,999pts] ++

 

**Chapter Selection**: Ultramarines

 

Battle-forged CP [12CP]

 

+ HQ +

 

Chief Librarian Tigurius [7 PL, 135pts]: 1) Veil of Time, 2) Might of Heroes, 3) Null Zone

 

Lieutenants in Phobos Armour [4 PL, -1CP, 78pts]

. Lieutenant in Phobos Armour: 2. Lord of Deceit, Seal of Oath, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

. . Heavy Bolt Pistol and Combat Knife

 

Marneus Calgar [11 PL, 2CP, 210pts]: Warlord

 

+ Troops +

 

Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]: Incursor Sergeant

. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired Combat Blades, 4x Smoke Grenades

 

Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]: Incursor Sergeant

. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired Combat Blades, 4x Smoke Grenades

 

Infiltrator Squad [5 PL, 120pts]: Infiltrator Sergeant

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

 

+ Elites +

 

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [6 PL, 165pts]: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy bolter, 2x Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Twin ironhail autocannon

 

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [6 PL, 165pts]: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy bolter, 2x Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Twin ironhail autocannon

 

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [13 PL, 193pts]: Cyclone missile launcher

. Dreadnought melee weapon: Dreadnought combat weapon, Storm bolter

. Twin lascannon

 

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [13 PL, 193pts]: Cyclone missile launcher

. Dreadnought melee weapon: Dreadnought combat weapon, Storm bolter

. Twin lascannon

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 90pts]

. Eliminator Sergeant: Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak

. Eliminator with Bolt Sniper: Camo cloak

. Eliminator with Bolt Sniper: Camo cloak

 

Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 90pts]

. Eliminator Sergeant: Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak

. Eliminator with Bolt Sniper: Camo cloak

. Eliminator with Bolt Sniper: Camo cloak

 

Relic Leviathan Dreadnought [16 PL, 350pts]: 2x Heavy flamer, Storm cannon array, Storm cannon array

 

++ Total: [99 PL, 13CP, 1,999pts] ++

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I like it a lot. I want to get a warsuit and test it out.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm liking it and think it's very powerful with some board presence. The Relic Contemptors and Invictor Warsuits give it real assault potential too.

 

I'm not experienced enough with 9th yet to say, but I'm a little concerned with troops numbers as of late.

 

When can you try this list out and give us some feedback?

[ThatOneMarshal]

Looks really nice! Only thing is maybe is getting a techmarine with master of forge considering just how many dreads you are running.

 

Looks like death ball running up while the using the infiltrators to put pressure where you need them.

 

I’m very interested in how the list plays and if it’s worth taking out the normal intercessors.

 

Also interesting to see an ultras list without an aggressor squad

Edited July 28, 2020 by ThatOneMarshal

[Cruor Vault]

I'm liking it and think it's very powerful with some board presence. The Relic Contemptors and Invictor Warsuits give it real assault potential too.

 

I'm not experienced enough with 9th yet to say, but I'm a little concerned with troops numbers as of late.

 

When can you try this list out and give us some feedback?

 

Who knows, I live in LA which is currently doing VERY badly with at handling COVID.  I'm not ruling out being unable to get in a game during the remainder of 2020.

 

Looks really nice! Only thing is maybe is getting a techmarine with master of forge considering just how many dreads you are running.

 

Looks like death ball running up while the using the infiltrators to put pressure where you need them.

 

I’m very interested in how the list plays and if it’s worth taking out the normal intercessors.

 

Also interesting to see an ultras list without an aggressor squad

 

The way modifiers stack in 9th, and the increased number of ways to suffer a -1 modifier, makes me very much not inlined to want to include a MotF.

 

Aggressors in 8th edition were a complete trap, their lack of an INV save and high popularity made them into little more than an expensive first turn casualty.  9th might be better for them, but not until the meta settles down and the initial wave of Dreads/Monsters mellows a bit in favor of Infantry for objectives.

[Lykke]

I'm not sure about Eliminators anymore, now that they lost the ability to fire without LOS, especially with more terrain on the table. And with how detachments works in 9'ed, we could see less character overall.

[Paulinus]

 

I'm liking it and think it's very powerful with some board presence. The Relic Contemptors and Invictor Warsuits give it real assault potential too.

I'm not experienced enough with 9th yet to say, but I'm a little concerned with troops numbers as of late.

When can you try this list out and give us some feedback?

 

 

Who knows, I live in LA which is currently doing VERY badly with at handling COVID.  I'm not ruling out being unable to get in a game during the remainder of 2020.

 

Looks really nice! Only thing is maybe is getting a techmarine with master of forge considering just how many dreads you are running.

Looks like death ball running up while the using the infiltrators to put pressure where you need them.

I’m very interested in how the list plays and if it’s worth taking out the normal intercessors.

Also interesting to see an ultras list without an aggressor squad

 

 

The way modifiers stack in 9th, and the increased number of ways to suffer a -1 modifier, makes me very much not inlined to want to include a MotF.

 

Aggressors in 8th edition were a complete trap, their lack of an INV save and high popularity made them into little more than an expensive first turn casualty.  9th might be better for them, but not until the meta settles down and the initial wave of Dreads/Monsters mellows a bit in favor of Infantry for objectives.

While the MotF was nice for that +1 to hit, I took him for the guaranteed 3 wounds healed. And 40pts is a steal,

 

I here what you say about Agressors mind you my friends disagree and think they are death incarnate for some strange reason...

 

I always played them as a counter unit, defensive and reactive for my back and mid field. I think people tried to play them like centurions or Termies with storm shields. Agressors are not that.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Now that Aggressors’ missile rack has blast I think they have some play .

[Cruor Vault]

 

While the MotF was nice for that +1 to hit, I took him for the guaranteed 3 wounds healed. And 40pts is a steal,

 

I here what you say about Agressors mind you my friends disagree and think they are death incarnate for some strange reason...

 

I always played them as a counter unit, defensive and reactive for my back and mid field. I think people tried to play them like centurions or Termies with storm shields. Agressors are not that.

 

 

A MotF is a great addition for healing, especially at that cost.  However getting another HQ slot for him would require me to either sacrifice the LT's re-roll to wound, or bring another detachment and another troop choice, resulting in a pretty heavy restructuring of the army.

 

Aggressors look very scary on paper, but when you're at a high end tournament game opposing units are so lethal they just evaporate without doing anything.  Sure they might get off a really impressive round of shooting every couple of games, but with the death of hordes in 9th there is very little that Aggressors do that can't be done better with another unit.  Inceptors in particular are much better at being a mobile threat because of their S5 and inherent AP-1.  -1 to hit in melee and only Dd3 is also major points against them, as you cannot trust them not to have a poor roll and do practically zero damage.  Without re-rolls 5 Aggressors barely manage a 50/50 kill rate on a T7 W10 3+ vehicle.

 

Now that Aggressors’ missile rack has blast I think they have some play .

 

At least for the moment, blast isn't going to do much for anyone.  Any unit that is afraid of Blast weapons right now (Guardsmen, cultists, neophytes) are so fragile that the extra shots from Blast are overkill.  If we see a move to 6+ man Intercessors or equivalents as the meta shakes up we might see an upsurge in blast's value, but for now it's just a boogyman.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Cruor Vault

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m not a fan of Aggressors tbh.

[Ishagu]

Aggressors are one of the best units in the codex, and one of the best units for Ultramarines specifically. I wouldn't leave them out of my lists, personally.

[Cruor Vault]

Aggressors are one of the best units in the codex, and one of the best units for Ultramarines specifically. I wouldn't leave them out of my lists, personally.

 

They really aren't, volume S4 fire is not something the META is leaning towards, they lack an INV save (yes you can give them one with an Apothecary but thats throwing more points after bad), suffering -1 to hit and Dd3 makes them surprisingly bad in melee (5 of them deal 11.67 damage against T7 3+ without re-rolls 50% of the time), they're also slow which is bad for 9th objectives.

[Ishagu]

I disagree. 100+ shots that can clear out cheap units before melee and 20+ Str8 attacks in close combat is very good. The weight of fire will remove MEQ with ease too.

 

They need support and other units to detract the opponent, of course.

[Lemondish]

 

Aggressors are one of the best units in the codex, and one of the best units for Ultramarines specifically. I wouldn't leave them out of my lists, personally.

 

They really aren't, volume S4 fire is not something the META is leaning towards, they lack an INV save (yes you can give them one with an Apothecary but thats throwing more points after bad), suffering -1 to hit and Dd3 makes them surprisingly bad in melee (5 of them deal 11.67 damage against T7 3+ without re-rolls 50% of the time), they're also slow which is bad for 9th objectives.

 

 

With respect, what exactly is the META leaning towards? It's not like we have any insight into it for the last 4 and a half months of 8th, let alone enough data to state with certainty where we are competitively with 9th. I think that makes your argument, which relies solely on the META as support, kind of weak. 

 

I will grant you that they are slow. I don't think that is enough supporting evidence that they are bad. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

They shred Necron Warriors for breakfast.

[Prot]

I don't know about meta, all I know is I think they might be the single most flexible, and potent non-HQ unit in my games.

 

Slow is relative when you are advancing, and a big squad can be made -1 to hit easily with Tigurius. The access to re roll all to hit is also a boon in CC which on the smaller table and the way Primaries work, is sure to happen more often than not.... at least it does for me. 

 

I have found if you park them correctly over objectives you can scare the heck out of someone from actually challenging them. 

 

I let the Eradicators, or Grav handle the heavier lifting. It has been a very successful combo for me even against shootier opponents like Astra. Simply because they can't manage the board control against something like that. Lascannons aren't bad, but I do find I have dropped my Contemptor dreads in favour of other things that seem to be working.

[Cruor Vault]

I disagree. 100+ shots that can clear out cheap units before melee and 20+ Str8 attacks in close combat is very good. The weight of fire will remove MEQ with ease too.

 

They need support and other units to detract the opponent, of course.

 

They do indeed, however with the massive nerfs to hordes and the fear of blasts in 9th, we won't see many guard or cultist equivalents outside of the mandatory minimums.  While they have good odds at destroying 5-man Primaris units even in cover they are not well suited for 9th edition currently.  They're not fast, and even with the reduced board size 18" range is still short, damage d3 is unreliable, and most critically they lack an INV save.

 

Right now 4 Plasma Inceptors are a much better bargain than 5 Aggressors.  Assuming no re-roll support to either unit, the Inceptors are almost guaranteed to kill a T7 W10 3+ target, the Aggressors are ~3 damage shy.  The Inceptors are also much more likely to eliminate a 5-man Primaris equivalent unit, with a respectable chance at splitting fire and removing 2 such units.  Coupled with free Deep Strike and double the movement rate of Aggressors, they have much more reliable delivery options and do not have to risk melee combat to maximize their potential. I am largely discounting the Aggressors melee capabilities in these comparisons as most of the delivery mechanisms are going to put them in situations where a charge is unlikely to succeed or will be outright impossible.  Even if they do make it into combat they are still barely pushing a 50/50 kill on a T7 W10 3+ target.

 

Aggressors are too big a target for their own good, and whilst new delivery options in the form of tactical reserves grants them the guarantee of at least one round of shooting before they die.  Without access to INV saves they are too easily removed by cheaper suicide squad options.  Grav devastators are going to be extremely common coming out of tactical reserves moving into 9th, and with 24" range there is essentially no where you can hide a unit of Aggressors that the Devastators cannot reach.  With Gravitic Amplification those 5 Devastators are going to easily wipe out 5 aggressors for about half the price.  There are a lot of units that are great for such kamikaze attacks across other factions.

 

 

 

 

Aggressors are one of the best units in the codex, and one of the best units for Ultramarines specifically. I wouldn't leave them out of my lists, personally.

 

They really aren't, volume S4 fire is not something the META is leaning towards, they lack an INV save (yes you can give them one with an Apothecary but thats throwing more points after bad), suffering -1 to hit and Dd3 makes them surprisingly bad in melee (5 of them deal 11.67 damage against T7 3+ without re-rolls 50% of the time), they're also slow which is bad for 9th objectives.

 

 

With respect, what exactly is the META leaning towards? It's not like we have any insight into it for the last 4 and a half months of 8th, let alone enough data to state with certainty where we are competitively with 9th. I think that makes your argument, which relies solely on the META as support, kind of weak. 

 

I will grant you that they are slow. I don't think that is enough supporting evidence that they are bad. 

 

 

Initially we're going to see a hard tilt towards monsters and dreadnoughts and corresponding units to counter them (Dreads also pack 3D melee weapons).  It's pretty visible right now with Dreads and Eradicators being in pretty much every list (even mine).  People will still bring the minimum amount of troops until we have larger events happening where the actual value of playing the missions and controlling territory becomes blindingly obvious. 

 

Once we have the first couple waves of events, AND the Necron and Marine codexes are out we're going to shift into durable troops like Custodes (Heavy intercessors if they are at reasonably pointed will be very popular). When that happens most armies are going to fall away from spamming monsters and dreads and THEN Aggressors and similar units might become viable.  I very much expect almost every marine army to run a Battalion + Patrol to pick up a 4th HQ and Heavy Support slot and run something along the lines of 4 troops, 4 characters, 4 heavies and then 3-5 Elites.

 

Marines in particular are going to have to re-learn how to operate, as the death balls we are so fond of won't have enough board control or mobility to keep up with a fast or plentiful army.  Besides my personal love of Dreadnoughts, I think a switch towards units that are fast enough and dangerous enough to handle a 5-man Primaris equivalent on their own in a single turn without character support are going to be EXTREMELY valuable in 9th.  Dreads (especially Contemptors) are pretty much perfect for that role right now.  Wisdom of the Ancients/Duty Eternal/Armor of Contempt all give them awesome buffs we can pop to grant them a little extra edge.

 

They shred Necron Warriors for breakfast.

 

The quality of the Necron codex is probably the single biggest factor in the next 6 months determining value of Aggressors.  IF the Necron codex is any good, and IF it pushes Necron players towards the Warrior Horde build, Aggressors might actually be quite valuable. Warriors are pretty much the perfect target for Aggressors, and come in large enough units to not waste their firepower.  However until that happens, there are too many units that can easily evaporate 5 Aggressors for much cheaper.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm going to hit the middle way here and say Aggressors are great at what they do, it's just most people have don't have them doing what they should do.

 

Which is an amusing way of saying Aggressors shoot infantry well and work as an advancing block to lend their support to an assault on objectives. Their big weakness is actually folk see their durability and shooting power and assume they can be the core of the army and take all comers like a death star.

 

Aggressors won't survive firepower of that magnitude, nor will their shooting and assault potential crack the hardest targets in the game.

 

The biggest weakness to Aggressors are vehicles. Relying on S4 to crack an armoured list is asking for trouble. As has been said above, use other units to do your heavier lifting against tough targets. Use Aggressors to act as bullies and shred infantry. When someone the same size or bigger comes along, like all bullies, avoid that confrontation unless you have to or else have the deck stacked in your favour.

 

Big units of 6 Aggressors are cheap enough to work I reckon, but careful how you go here as if you think this unit is your attacking element sorted you'll fast find your army struggling. Aggressors alongside other aggressive units and vehicles will be much more worthwhile.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If I ran squad it would be six strong.

[Ishagu]

I'm going to hit the middle way here and say Aggressors are great at what they do, it's just most people have don't have them doing what they should do.

 

Which is an amusing way of saying Aggressors shoot infantry well and work as an advancing block to lend their support to an assault on objectives. Their big weakness is actually folk see their durability and shooting power and assume they can be the core of the army and take all comers like a death star.

 

Aggressors won't survive firepower of that magnitude, nor will their shooting and assault potential crack the hardest targets in the game.

 

The biggest weakness to Aggressors are vehicles. Relying on S4 to crack an armoured list is asking for trouble. As has been said above, use other units to do your heavier lifting against tough targets. Use Aggressors to act as bullies and shred infantry. When someone the same size or bigger comes along, like all bullies, avoid that confrontation unless you have to or else have the deck stacked in your favour.

 

Big units of 6 Aggressors are cheap enough to work I reckon, but careful how you go here as if you think this unit is your attacking element sorted you'll fast find your army struggling. Aggressors alongside other aggressive units and vehicles will be much more worthwhile.

That's not really a weakness. They aren't designed to crack vehicles with str4 shooting but can still deal plenty of wounds against targets up to t7 through weight of dice, which is a nice bonus.

 

A Quad Las Predator can only remove 4 grots at best in the shooting phase, but I wouldn't say the unit is useless because of this fact. Different units have a different purpose.

 

Agressors are closest to Tactical Terminators in their design. You lose the teleportation but gain faster movement and shooting if you chose to advance.

The weapons are comparable - Boltstorm Gauntlets are basically better storm bolters and power Fists. Slightly less range but more shots, same profile in close combat but with more attacks.

 

I see them as a unit that engages infantry in the shooting phase, and has added flexibility to engage tougher targets in combat.

[Swordsman]

I find aggressor really good, if used properly and with a list built around them.

 

Before COVID and in the end of 8th edition, I’ve got very good results with 18 of them lead by the Primarch and supported by chief apothecary, Tigurius, a leviathan and a deredeo. Very solid and with an overwhelming firepower (and crushing melee)

 

I have to try 9th but I think, I will restart from the same list. I have to adjust it because of the point increase, but I would like to keep the structure.

 

I’m confident aggressor can do very well also in 9th.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Swordsman

[Captain Idaho]

How is saying something has a weakness at something equal to useless?

 

Yes, the weakness of the Predator with Lascannons you mentioned is the fact it is only good at certain targets and not others.

 

You can say a unit of Primaris has a weakness and not be against Primaris, you know.

 

As for the comparison between Terminators and Aggressors (or Centurions), as time has gone on I see more and more water between them. They just operate so differently and the weapon upgrades and invulnerable saves is just such a different way of doing things now, the comparisons are often unfair.

 

Aggressors are great marching alongside Dreadnoughts, which is kinda funny when you think that should be a Terminator job but isn't.