Dawn of Fire, a New Edition, and 2W Space Marines

[jaxom]

I just finished Dawn of Fire: Avenging Son and it solidified something that had been loosely assembling in my head since the announcement of 9th edition. Effectively: 8th edition was the in media res for 40k in almost all regards. It gave a glimpse of where things end up for lore (Dark Imperium books, Space Marine Conquests, etc) and miniatures. We got the core of a new marine range. We saw what the concept and modeling team has in mind for the Death Guard and Chaos; even some of the Khorne and Slaanesh aesthetics were properly nailed down in AoS. Blackstone Fortress gave hints of modern designs applied to Eldar, Cultists, and Renegades. The new Ork vehicles did the same for Orks.

 

The Dawn of Fire series has been described as the tale of how 40k got to where it was at the start of 8th edition. Avenging Son takes place right before Watchers of the Throne: The Regent's Shadow (i.e. Khorne's legions have repulsed, Guilliman has been laying the groundwork for his crusade, but the Primaris as yet unrevealed). The narrative is clearly laying the groundwork to provide explanations and/or for many of the... frictive issues that arose from the sudden plop down of the lore into 200 years post-Gathering Storm. To compare: 8th edition lore was the last 20 minutes of Return of the Jedi; we know how it ends, we're left confused about the filial piety, and how did Han get out of the carbonite? Now we're getting The Empire Strikes Back and the rest of Return of the Jedi.

 

The 8th edition core rules turned out to be not up to an appropriate standard compared to what the community needed. We need to remember that most rules are developed in a manner no different from house rules. The group working on them has an intimacy and familiarity with the goals, intent, and "how things should work." This is how one ends up with loose grammar conventions and a lack of strict noun separation ("roll to hit" and "attack roll" being used interchangeably for example). It's also how ease-of-play adaptations can impact how a new rule plays out compared to its use in a strict RAW environment (fast rolling compared to attribute one hit at a time, for example). 8th edition gave us a view of what 40k would be like at the end of the story; a very different beast than the preceding editions. 9th edition is the "here's how it's supposed to really have gone," just like Dawn of Fire is to the lore.

 

What does this have to do with 2W space marines? There's always been an impression for Space Marines that they are tough, durable, and longer lasting on the table than other factions. That's one of the end points for their rules. A 3+ armor save went a long way to making that happen for a long time. However, that did not end up being the case in 8th edition. It ended up that wounds were more important than saves (or at least coupled with saves) for that durable feeling (as Death Guard players found out right quick for their troop squads). If 9th edition is the "here's how it's really supposed to go" edition then it makes a lot of sense that all marines become 2W.

 

The abstraction of game rules (this isn't a simulation) lets us hand wave the exact differences between the 19 organ and the 22 organ marines. We're dealing with a game that has a 4++ save due to ancient, nigh-irreplaceable technology and a 4++ save due to dodging real good. This is also a game that isn't chess - no piece/unit has to have a unique role in context to the whole (whether miniature games should strive for that is another conversation entirely).

 

 

I think we'll have a better idea of how much of this sort of reasoning will be applied to other factions once the Necron codex comes out.

 

[b1soul]

I think Dark Imperium occurs roughly 110+ years after Gathering Storm...but point taken about the in media res nature of Eighth

[mughi3]

 

 

The abstraction of game rules (this isn't a simulation) lets us hand wave the exact differences between the 19 organ and the 22 organ marines. We're dealing with a game that has a 4++ save due to ancient, nigh-irreplaceable technology and a 4++ save due to dodging real good. This is also a game that isn't chess - no piece/unit has to have a unique role in context to the whole (whether miniature games should strive for that is another conversation entirely).

This right here is probably one of the biggest reasons i was only lukewarm on 8th and dislike 9th almost as much as 6th. 

I want a level of sim in my TT war game, armor class/value distinction, vehicle  facing etc.. to go along with some required abstracts like good area terrain rules that existed in previous editions/other game systems.

 

Units having a unique role in the overall army is another aspect of good tactical play.  

It is one of the reasons why i describe 5th edition(my preferred core rule set and the edition i have gone back to playing) as the "bring the right weapon for the right job" edition(and employ it where it is needed during the battle). 

[cretacianborn]

To compare: 8th edition lore was the last 20 minutes of Return of the Jedi; we know how it ends, we're left confused about the filial piety, and how did Han get out of the carbonite? Now we're getting The Empire Strikes Back and the rest of Return of the Jedi.

 

Fantastic analogy!

[Closet Skeleton]

A 3+ armor save went a long way to making that happen for a long time. However, that did not end up being the case in 8th edition.

You'd have to completely miss the only narrative around every 40k edition for this statement to make any sense.

 

If you didn't abuse the gun types with massive amounts of shots, 8th ed marines were tougher than 7th ed ones.

 

The only time non-Primaris marines felt right in survibility was when 5th ed BA got 4+ feel no pain auras.

[mughi3]

Yes but that is back when FNP had limitations on it. even FNP marines could not survive a hit from an anti-tank weapon.(AP1/2 or double toughness=no FNP)

[jaxom]

 

A 3+ armor save went a long way to making that happen for a long time. However, that did not end up being the case in 8th edition.

You'd have to completely miss the only narrative around every 40k edition for this statement to make any sense

No worries, different locales result in different play experiences. I’ll just say I made a lot of flashlight jokes and fought a lot of other Marine or Chaos where games were all about who got the got the more favorable close combat match up.