Speculative: The rest of the Heresy

[b1soul]

Wraight and/or French probably felt there's some redundancy between Shiban (who is now, for the most part, physically and mentally restored) and Jubal. But...

 

come on mates, don't get rid of both of them so soon

 

I personally hope Shiban survives into The Scouring to found the Storm Lords Chapter, but if he absolutelt must die, falling heroically to retake the Lion's Gate would be more satisfying.

 

At the end of the day, this is a story to entertain readers, so random deaths soon lose mileage.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I mean, this is supposed to basically be the absolute largest war ever. There's bound to be at least one notable character just annihilated by an artillery shell, etc. Not everybody gets to go out in an epic duel to go down in history.

[mc warhammer]

i really hope not, b1soul. because those two characters aren't too similar other than being part of the same legion

 

and 100% agree lord_caerolion, but i was a little golly gee about most of

the named scars dying off so early while the other legions continued with a fully recognisable roster but now that the sons of horus have apparently gotten the same treatment in saturnine, it's not so glaring.

 

on the other hand i loved what i read about jenetia krole.

 

on that note, i didn't need jubal to go down in an epic duel, he could have lost half his skull to some shrapnel mid inspiring- speech a few more books in and i'd have been cool with that.

 

 

edit: wanted to voice my appreciation for the board's auto substitution of "golly gee" of my swearing acronym. well played, bot.

Edited August 25, 2020 by mc warhammer

[Scribe]

Ah is that what that is, lol. I kept seeing it thinking 'why is this phrase trendy...'

[Gongsun Zan]

Did I miss something about French doing two books? I thought it was confirmed that Haley and Abnett are doing double duty. 

[DukeLeto69]

Did I miss something about French doing two books? I thought it was confirmed that Haley and Abnett are doing double duty.

Only Abnett is a dead cert as doing last book.

 

Had Haley not taken on Dawn of Fire lead author responsibilities I would have expected him to be the other double dipper in the SoT series BUT now I am edging towards French because he has been very quiet on author front this year (although think he now leads FW BB development)

[b1soul]

I'd say the Scars' whole roster is dead save Shiban[?]

 

Qin Xa

Jubal

Yesugei

Torghun

Hasik

Jemulan

 

So I think plenty of them died to make the dangers of war feel very real.

 

Just think Shiban should be the one to survive longer...and if he dies later, not necessarily die an epic death.

[Chapter Master Valrak]

I think Sanguinius wont take on Ka'Bandha at the eternity gate, I think it will be Angron, we've already seen Ka'Banda get yeeted at Signus Prime, I just don't see how they can make it 'more' if he's already spanked him. Angron at the moment is unstoppable at the Siege and I think Sang is the only person capable of stopping him.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Chapter Master Valrak

[DukeLeto69]

I think Sanguinius wont take on Ka'Bandha at the eternity gate, I think it will be Angron, we've already seen Ka'Banda get yeeted at Signus Prime, I just don't see how they can make it 'more' if he's already spanked him. Angron at the moment is unstoppable at the Siege and I think Sang is the only person capable of stopping him.

Oh no watch out for complaints from ppl who think the lore is inviable!!!!!

[Blood Angel Scout]

I think Sanguinius wont take on Ka'Bandha at the eternity gate, I think it will be Angron, we've already seen Ka'Banda get yeeted at Signus Prime, I just don't see how they can make it 'more' if he's already spanked him. Angron at the moment is unstoppable at the Siege and I think Sang is the only person capable of stopping him.

Only way to make it more is if it's Angron and Ka'Banda vs the Angel but think it will be Angron's daemonic form ultimately "retconned" by the proto-Inquistion/Imperial cult when covering up the fall of the traitors.

[b1soul]

Sanguinius being the first to banish Angron would be sweet

[Bobss]

I mean, this is supposed to basically be the absolute largest war ever. There's bound to be at least one notable character just annihilated by an artillery shell, etc. Not everybody gets to go out in an epic duel to go down in history.

 

The thing is this is a story about the absolute largest fictional war ever

 

 ''Lord Sandwich was hit by a stray cannonball. He then died'' might be appropriate in covering the Napleonic Wars, but in my Horus Heresy? Can't say I agree. Whether you draw more on the pseudo-mythological or pseudo-historical angle sort of decides your opinion on this matter. I go for the Trojan War in Space more than Caesar's Civil War in Space, personally

 

I only give John French a pass for Jubal because A) it's John French and Bee) Jubal was first introduced in Templar IIRC so he sort of has dibs on the character anyway

Edited August 25, 2020 by Bobss

[mc warhammer]

phereclus died from a butt wound in the iliad

 

could be inspiration for how to depict sigismund's highly anticipated kill spree

 

black library, are you listening?

[Taliesin]

Did I miss something about French doing two books? I thought it was confirmed that Haley and Abnett are doing double duty. 

 

Very likely to be John French. Reasoning being that he has been dedicated to the Heresy series mainly, has been pumping out a lot of novels in the HH series recently too, doesnt have much else coming out at all , does some work with FW on the Black Books, and wrote book 1 in the series so has had plenty of time to pen book 5 or 6.

[DukeLeto69]

I say it is French too!

 

The lead times b/w author finishing and publication are approx 6 months. In case of SoT that means author finished (all edits so final copy) 6 months before date of the limited edition being on sale.

 

SoT is being written sequentially not concurrently (to avoid TBA style issues) so author B won’t start their book until author A has at least finished their first draft.

 

So we can be pretty sure book 5 is complete and book 6 is underway but book 7 and 8 are at best outlines designed based on writers room brainstorms.

 

Interesting thing (to me) is how they are going to handle ADB in this schedule? He needs twice as long as all the others (normally)? Maybe he will write his first draft anyway, closely following outline but then redraft once he has seen book 6 (cos I am assuming he is getting book 7)

Edited August 25, 2020 by DukeLeto69

[Taliesin]

I think ADB started his SoT book quite some time ago actually. I remember during BL Weekender 2018 him mentioning to my friend at the signing session he had 3 projects on his plate, those obviously being Spear's sequel, BL3 and SoT.

[Scribe]

Oh no watch out for complaints from ppl who think the lore is inviable!!!!!

You wound me, sir.

 

Having Angron fall to Sanguinius would be a total shift, at this point, because the fight against the Bloodthirster was scuffed...well who knows.

[DukeLeto69]

I think ADB started his SoT book quite some time ago actually. I remember during BL Weekender 2018 him mentioning to my friend at the signing session he had 3 projects on his plate, those obviously being Spear's sequel, BL3 and SoT.

Yep all three in his “slate” and confirmed only a week or so ago that Spears 2 and Black Legion 3 are now finished and implying that SoT is next (see my post in upcoming).

[Fedor]

Angron vs Sanguinius seems almost inevitable after Swallow tanked Ka'bandha as a threat in favour of some fan-service and a nice quote in FtT. I'm fine with that, though i do hope we don't get another big epic battle with Horus. BL need to keep the classic spirit of that confrontation and have it either a straight out murder or very brief fight. Sanguinius having a realistic chance of winning there only serves to diminish his sacrifice and refusal of Horus.

[Scribe]

Angron vs Sanguinius seems almost inevitable after Swallow tanked Ka'bandha as a threat in favour of some fan-service and a nice quote in FtT. I'm fine with that, though i do hope we don't get another big epic battle with Horus. BL need to keep the classic spirit of that confrontation and have it either a straight out murder or very brief fight. Sanguinius having a realistic chance of winning there only serves to diminish his sacrifice and refusal of Horus.

 

Unfortunate, but I can see it playing out like this.

 

Sanguinius fights Angron at the Gate. Either Sanguinius beats Angron (making for a comically bad 'golly gee is the point of Angron') or Angron has enough staying power and the Angel disengages when the wall is breached, because he know's (Vision style) that he must be there to confront Horus.

 

Sanguinius is weakend by the fight (win or lose) against Angron, but shows up defiant and loyal, allowing for Horus to smash the Angel and he (Angel) not lose face too badly.

 

Sanguinius chips the armor of Horus, that the Emperor exploits.

 

Emperor blows up Horus after getting broken.

 

Emperor sits on the throne.

[b1soul]

Sanguinius was always battered and weary when facing Horus...so whether or not banishes Angron beforehand doesn't affect the nature of his confrontation with Horus.

 

Heck, even if he were sparkly fresh when he confronts Horus...don't see how that affects anything. No primarch can stand up to Chaos Horus.

[Roomsky]

This is a sort of combo wish list / prediction. Fingers crossed French is the other author pulling double-duty; oh I would adore 4 home-runs for the final stretch.

 

5/6: French

 

Probably a bit of sinew for the big pieces the other three will be dropping. The search for Ollanius, Sigismund going sicko-mode (French has been Siggy’s primary author in the series), Fo’s primarch virus plan, the arriving Dark Angels, etc. Fingers crossed French will be able to use his tension-building skills to set up an exciting climax. The daemon primarchs are somewhat expendable, and I wouldn’t mind seeing a primarch banished by something other than another primarch, though if this is the next entry I’m not sure who you could do it to besides Magnus. That said, Saturnine seems like the loyalist’s biggest reprieve, so a major loyalist loss here may also be in order.

 

5/6: Wraight

 

The third book for the Scars, no doubt. If Jaghatai is duelling Fulgrim I don’t really care to see him and Mortarion come to physical blows again, rather I’d like to see each of them flex their strategic muscles, with Jaghatai balancing strategium work with his usual in-their-face manner of warfare. It would also be a chance to show A: Mortarion as a skilled commander and not just a stooge and B: could show his cunning if he swallowed his pride and lured Jaghatai into a battle with Fulgrim instead. Aside from that I’d like to see a bit of custodes action out of Wraight as well, and hopefully some world building of Terra to contrast what we see in Watchers of the Throne and Vaults of Terra. I’m also nearly certain Shiban’s going to turn out to be alive, unless we’re running with Raldoron and Valdor being Jaghatai’s new besties.

 

7: ADB

 

Blood Angels with a helping of Night Lords. Sangy needs a great showing and Zephon proves ADB is the man for the job, as far as I’m concerned. I think Ka’Bandha can still work if executed properly, he would be in command of hordes and hordes to wear down the hawkboy for days, but I also find the idea of Angron intriguing. I’m sure whatever ADB is given he’ll make fantastic, so I’m not too stressed. I’ve mentioned it before but I imagine we’ll get at least a cameo from Malcharion.

 

8: Abnett

 

Hoping Horus and the Emperor meet about halfway through this. The Heresy needs a bigger wrapup than a big fight. I know the authors have stated this book ends with the Emperor landing on the Golden Throne, but there’s plenty of room to drag that out a bit. Show me the traitor host disintegrating, the Blood Angels succumbing to their rage, and Imperial high command’s panic as their leader is effectively killed. I know Abnett wants to write a book in the wake of the Siege so I hope we see a bit of that here. As for the final battle itself I have no particular expectations, but I think it’s too important to portray especially straightforwardly. The play by play in the old Visions series is basically awful and does no justice to the gravity of the situation. And I pray they drop the whole Sanguinius weakening Horus' armour/defenses thing, undermines his defiance wholesale.

 

But at this point we’ve got 3-4 of BL’s best to look forward to. They could throw me through I loop and I imagine I’d still love it.

[Fire Golem]

I hope French has the second double up, for sure. 

[MarineRaider]

Sanguinius was always battered and weary when facing Horus...so whether or not banishes Angron beforehand doesn't affect the nature of his confrontation with Horus.

 

Heck, even if he were sparkly fresh when he confronts Horus...don't see how that affects anything. No primarch can stand up to Chaos Horus.

 

Russ could have killed him. Not impressed by Horus at all in the HH series, he talks a big game but for the most part he has been a disappointment that the E should have killed easily. At one point early in the HH Logar was starting to come into his own and was absolutely not intimidated by Horus.

[MarineRaider]

I want to continue to see the loyalist beating the traitors at every turn, even with dwindling strength. I would like the DA contingent pull the string that unravels Horus as he starts to make rash force repositioning that causes even more fractures in the psychotic Chaos Primarchs. Pertarabo needs to become more frustrated and deranged, perhaps after the recent gambit Horus starts losing faith in his brother and starts to usurp his authority of the siege.

 

I would like E to draw strength from new pieces entering the system and start to taunt Horus in their fireside chats and he is the reason Horus lowers the shields as he baits his son.

 

I also would love Corax to make an appearance in the system that freaks out traitors as he and the Alpha legion pull of some subterfuge that confuses the traitors the UM are in system in mass.