Speculative: The rest of the Heresy

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

<Snip>It's supposed to be a tragedy, <Snip>

 

 

This is the heart of our ....( Decade?) long disagreement.  This is the big lie that someone at the Black Library, Games Workshop, has been feeding us for 30+ years.  They wanted us to feel that the Istavaan III ,an V wars were worse then was true.  Why tell us only 5 Marines escaped with Corax, for all that time, when 5k left with him and many others found thier own way out?  The same reason they told us III was a total wipe.  It made us feel some type of way about both sides.  It was purposely done.  Later when we learn the truth, we will feel angry, confused, hurt ect......$$$$$$.    

 

There is an in universe explanation also.   Alpha Legion.  The Ordo Reduction.  Anyone who did not want people to know that the Traitors weren't ALL bad.  That might lead one to conclude that maybe they were partially right or worthy of a chance at redemption.  If they left the door cracked even a hair,  it could be kicked in.  So we were told a lie.  Istavaan III, was a tragedy.  The loyalist fought hard but all died.  Boo hoo.  Don't let your preconceived beliefs cloud your vision.  

 

Tarvitz and Garro, swore to meet again on Tera.  A scene in two books.  

 

"The Emperor Protects" 

[Lord_Caerolion]

Yep, and Alpharius swore he’d be on Terra too. Dorn swore he’d protect the Emperor and the Palace would never be breached. Horus swore he’d be loyal. Look how that turned out. Countless promises have been broken across the series, why should this one be any different?

5 Marines escaped with Corax at the time when the official line was that the Ultramarines Legion reached a staggering 15,000 Marines. Now the smallest Legions numbered over 75,000, because they realized that having less than 50,000 Astartes take over the galaxy was ludicrous. They also changed the Astartes from being drugged-up criminals in power armour back in Rogue Trader. Is that part of the elaborate conspiracy too?

As for the rest, have we even been reading the same series, both 30k and 40k? The whole point of the Horus Heresy is that it crippled humanity. We can see that from what 40k is like. You think they’re suddenly going to retcon the entire premise of two whole game-limes, the foundational principle of 40k since its creation, on the evidence of “b-but the Good Guy made a promise”?

I’ll say it again. Tarvitz facing his end with dignity is amazing, and does justice to the character.
Him going “ok guys, we’ve had our Dramatic Final Scene, is the author still watching us? No? Ok, RUN!” ruins the character. It ruins the point of the book. It ruins the arc of the initial novels. For what? So you can pretend the Istvaan Massacres were actually just jaunty bits of good fun? Nah.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Lord_Caerolion

[DarkChaplain]

I, too, am vehemently opposed to Tarvitz returning.

Heck, I've been opposed to Loken doing it, too. I'm not really sure Garviel has done anything since Galaxy in Flames that would measure up to his heroic death-that-didn't-stick in terms of narrative, emotional or dramatic impact. Snarking on Aximand certainly wasn't it.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Plus, are you really saying, Walkier, that for 30 years GW have been secretly planning to eventually have a massive book series dozens of books long in which they'll finally reveal the Real Truth and then make heaps of money as a result? You're giving GW far too much credit regarding their planning of an event that was literally created as a throwaway line that sounded cool, and every involved character and faction has been drastically changed numerous times since its foundation. Yes, it's all just been one giant conspiracy, all planned out decades in advance so that a publishing company they hadn't even established yet could write an incredibly shoddy bait-and-switch, all so characters they hadn't even contemplated existing yet could come back, and the company gets that sweet sweet Rage Purchase money.

 

You realize how ridiculous that is, right?

[Scribe]

 

<Snip>It's supposed to be a tragedy, <Snip>

 

 

This is the heart of our ....( Decade?) long disagreement.  This is the big lie that someone at the Black Library, Games Workshop, has been feeding us for 30+ years.  They wanted us to feel that the Istavaan III ,an V wars were worse then was true.  Why tell us only 5 Marines escaped with Corax, for all that time, when 5k left with him and many others found thier own way out?  The same reason they told us III was a total wipe.  It made us feel some type of way about both sides.  It was purposely done.  Later when we learn the truth, we will feel angry, confused, hurt ect......$$$$$$.    

 

 

Do you honestly believe GW was in for the long con? lol

 

It was a retcon. People didnt 'learn the truth'. There was a retcon of the truth.

 

Look at the number of Raven Guard + Salamanders books in the Horus Heresy, and you suddenly will see exactly why they made all these changes.

 

You got one part right. $$$$$$

[Angel_of_Blood]

I don't need a Scouring "series" either, to be frank. So many stories already deal with key events or aspects of that era, that a few disparate novels to cover remaining key elements are good enough, whenever they happen.

 

Hopefully there'll be a proper Grey Knights novel though, since they pop up not too far into the post-Siege era and go on a merry errand to close the Damnation Cache on Pythos (leaving Severian as Epimetheus behind - still bloody annoyed Swallow and editor both messed the name up in The Buried Dagger, listing it as Epithemius). There's a lot of potential in fast-tracking the post-Buried Dagger situation on hidden Titan towards one of their first large-scale missions. Lots of legacy HH characters having to cope with sitting out the finale on Terra and creating a new Chapter for a future they don't know anything about, following on from a present that is obscured from them, too, unable to interfere. There's got to be plenty of anxiety there, wondering if the Imperium is even still standing by the time they return to normal time.

And the Damnation Cache is most certainly a Heresy plotline that'll be missing its midpoint until this is wrapped up. We know the beginning and the end (for now), but not the middle part that puts the lid on.

 

I've not read the novel, but how is it Severian is Epimetheus?

[DarkChaplain]

That's actually a mistake on my part. I somehow misremembered that Epithemeus was Abaddon's Legion-brother, when really, Abaddon told him he had watched that founding member die (which would be Severian, in that case). The Dark Angel (Epimetheus) is ~mysterious~ still.

[mc warhammer]

thinking about adb's contribution today; i'd enjoy appearances from raguel the sufferer, xorumai khan, lethandrus the templar and malcharion the war sage during his entry. i know aaron prefers not to "shrink the universe" but even a passing mention would actually service to open up the scope of the siege novels beyond the cast we've seen so far.

 

i've probably said it before, but i reckon it's worth a repeat.