Nostalgia attacks - Questions about army development

[nusphigor]

Hello guys,

 

Legend says that in the old epoch of 2011 through 2015 i had an Alpha Legion army that i shared with many of you guys in the old Serpent's Lair forum.
I've been looking at the pictures and nostalgia attacked and since i have some HH minis unpainted I might remake my old alphas army again.

However, i'm all rusty and this current codex looks all strange to me. It seems that chaos has gone far from spikey marines to fleshy marines aaaaaaand i don't like that.

I was wondering if you guys can tell me if my first ever army list can be done in the current edition of the game.
Please bear in mind that this list was for 4th-5th ed so I don't know if it can apply.

What i used to play with was:

Daemon prince of Nurgle with wings and warptime

Chaos Sorcerer in terminator armour
Chaos Lord in terminator armour with daemon weapon 

2 squads of 10 csm with 1 flamer, 1 meltagun and champion with combi melta and power fist in a chaos rhino 

Squad of 10 Csm with 2 plasmaguns, combi plasma and power weapon

1 Squad of 8 Khorne berzerkers with champ with powerfist on a chaos rhino

1 squad of 7 Plague marines with 2 plasmaguns and power fist on a chaos rhino

Squad of 5 Chaos terminators with combi plasmas and power weapons

2 squads of 3 obliterators with mark of nurgle

2 squads of 10 minor daemons (i used flagelants cultists as their models)

 

I can't remember the points of these but i used to play a lot of 1500pts games, so i used to just choose many units at random.

Do you guys think this kind of army can be done again?
How would you suggest to do so?

Cheers

Edited August 23, 2021 by nusphigor

[Brom MKIV]

Greetings and welcome back! I can say a LOT has changed since then. The game was a put off for me initially due to lack of depth but that has increased enough to hold my attention again. The good news is that heretics have been in a decent spot in 8th and I'd say now in 9th as well.. depending how competitive you are will determine how big your playbook is. 

 

Anyway on your list yes I feel you could play most of that stuff semi competitive or all of it in more narrative type games. However, you will likely not be fitting all those toys into a 9th list due to the pts increases for all armies which was related to the reduction in board size by approximately 25 percent. A very quick eyeball puts that list over 2500 easy. Standard size game is 2k fyi although the rules support any size really. 

 

In 8th you could and often would play 3 detachments aka soup to access the best of all worlds. Now this is much more difficult and corner case. Single faction lists are more viable then before but there is still quite a bit of incentive to bring 2 detachments and combine legions. Just to illustrate the more typical list building approaches.

 

For specifics:

Nurgle DP (all DPs) took a hit with cost increase making them from no brainer to less appealing than more efficient options but still.. ok. However death guard and Tsons specific DPs are still really good. 

 

Termie sorc and lord are both still really solid includes. 

 

Full squads of csm are not great atm but will get better with upcoming changes to 2w and ap1 chainswords. Right now I'd suggest breaking them into units of 5 although 10 aren't unplayable. weapon loadouts need to change IMO. No flamers. Double up on plas, matching combi weapon. Or dual heavy weapons based on purpose. 

 

Zerks are really solid if fragile until the 2w thing. I like running multiples personally.

 

Rhinos and generally mechanized infantry is in a better spot then its been in several editions in my experience. Pretty cool. And on that note I would suggest breaking one or more csm units into 5s and loading them AND a min sized zerk unit into each rhino since you can do that now days. Dump one to camp and shoot and the other to clear. 

 

PMs are fantastic in this edition and will border on the best troops in the game status with 2w (to keep emphasizing lol). Here I would not suggest min sized but instead 6-8 with 7 actually being a sweet spot. Double flails and a mix of blight launchers or plas and the rest plague knives is a damn solid unit whether troops (DG) or even from specials in whatever legion you roll. 

 

Terminators are playable and not the worst thing you can do with 170 pts but keep them cheap and efficient. MANY things will evaporate them still and making 9" charges is very difficult outside of a couple legions. My advise is all cbplas and chainaxes. If you have extra pts add a chainfist. 

 

Oblits have been fantastic. Now in 9th they lost the cmd reroll ability to effect their randomness. Still a solid unit but fitting 2x3 will set you back 630 pts. Certain legions are better at these aka IW and AL. Consider master of possession if you really want to make them work well. 

 

Daemons unfortunately are more a pain then its worth now days IMO. From a CSM perspective that is. You can take a daemons detachment I suppose and then your probably wanting nurgle. Otherwise your stuck with summoning. Unless your just dead set on these I feel theres better things you could be doing wit the pts. 

 

Anyway just from the top of my head hope that helps a bit. 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Brom MKIV

[nusphigor]

Greetings and welcome back! I can say a LOT has changed since then. The game was a put off for me initially due to lack of depth but that has increased enough to hold my attention again. The good news is that heretics have been in a decent spot in 8th and I'd say now in 9th as well.. depending how competitive you are will determine how big your playbook is. 

 

Anyway on your list yes I feel you could play most of that stuff semi competitive or all of it in more narrative type games. However, you will likely not be fitting all those toys into a 9th list due to the pts increases for all armies which was related to the reduction in board size by approximately 25 percent. A very quick eyeball puts that list over 2500 easy. Standard size game is 2k fyi although the rules support any size really. 

 

In 8th you could and often would play 3 detachments aka soup to access the best of all worlds. Now this is much more difficult and corner case. Single faction lists are more viable then before but there is still quite a bit of incentive to bring 2 detachments and combine legions. Just to illustrate the more typical list building approaches.

 

For specifics:

Nurgle DP (all DPs) took a hit with cost increase making them from no brainer to less appealing than more efficient options but still.. ok. However death guard and Tsons specific DPs are still really good. 

 

Termie sorc and lord are both still really solid includes. 

 

Full squads of csm are not great atm but will get better with upcoming changes to 2w and ap1 chainswords. Right now I'd suggest breaking them into units of 5 although 10 aren't unplayable. weapon loadouts need to change IMO. No flamers. Double up on plas, matching combi weapon. Or dual heavy weapons based on purpose. 

 

Zerks are really solid if fragile until the 2w thing. I like running multiples personally.

 

Rhinos and generally mechanized infantry is in a better spot then its been in several editions in my experience. Pretty cool. And on that note I would suggest breaking one or more csm units into 5s and loading them AND a min sized zerk unit into each rhino since you can do that now days. Dump one to camp and shoot and the other to clear. 

 

PMs are fantastic in this edition and will border on the best troops in the game status with 2w (to keep emphasizing lol). Here I would not suggest min sized but instead 6-8 with 7 actually being a sweet spot. Double flails and a mix of blight launchers or plas and the rest plague knives is a damn solid unit whether troops (DG) or even from specials in whatever legion you roll. 

 

Terminators are playable and not the worst thing you can do with 170 pts but keep them cheap and efficient. MANY things will evaporate them still and making 9" charges is very difficult outside of a couple legions. My advise is all cbplas and chainaxes. If you have extra pts add a chainfist. 

 

Oblits have been fantastic. Now in 9th they lost the cmd reroll ability to effect their randomness. Still a solid unit but fitting 2x3 will set you back 630 pts. Certain legions are better at these aka IW and AL. Consider master of possession if you really want to make them work well. 

 

Daemons unfortunately are more a pain then its worth now days IMO. From a CSM perspective that is. You can take a daemons detachment I suppose and then your probably wanting nurgle. Otherwise your stuck with summoning. Unless your just dead set on these I feel theres better things you could be doing wit the pts. 

 

Anyway just from the top of my head hope that helps a bit. 

 

Many thanks! Quite an in depth review!

 

it was most helpful man.

I have been kinda near the hobby with my imperial fists, but to be honest tabletop wise i have never understood the stratagems mechanic as in the rare moments when i get to play i always forget to use them. But then again i've always been more of a fluff, narrative player so it doesn't matter that much.

 

I got the corebook for 9th and the crusade journal some weeks ago, so i suppose it might be a good idea to start the army without the marked units and see what happens. Your input is very very helpful in this regard as it gives me a sort of north to guide myself in the creation of this army.

On the meantime i guess i should start by making a starter crusade list and paint those units, maybe give them some background.

 

Cheers!

[nusphigor]

Hey guys!
I have a bit of Insomnia so i put that to good use and took out the minis i can use for this army.

I made this armylist with battlescribe and with the wysiwyg minis i have:

 

 

Chaos Lord with terminator armour, pair of lightning claws (daemon weapon of slaanesh)

Chaos Sorcerer with terminator armour, force stave (but it does look more like a power maul) and combi bolter

 

10man squad of Khorne Berzerkers with chainswords, 2 plasma pistols and champ with power fist

 

10man squad of Cultists with 9 autoguns and a heavy stubber

10man squad of Chaos Marines with 7 Boltguns, 2 plasmaguns and champ with combi-bolter and power fist

10man squad of Chaos Marines with 9 Boltguns  and champ with combi-bolter and power fist

 

3man squad of Chaos Bikers with 2 meltaguns and champ with a combi melta

 

5man squad of Chaos Havocs with 4 lascannons and champ with Boltgun and chainsword

5man squad of Chaos Havocs with 4 lascannons and champ with Boltgun and chainsword

 

1 Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought with 2 Kheres Assault Cannons

 

 

it says its 1353pts, but i don't know if these are with 9th ed points or 8th. It seems to be too few points for all those minis.

 

What do you guys think?

Edited September 5, 2020 by nusphigor

[Lord Raven 19]

Battlescribe is in 9th points now, so you probably have room for more toys if you want. Looks promising though.

[nusphigor]

Battlescribe is in 9th points now, so you probably have room for more toys if you want. Looks promising though.

 

So the points are correct?

maybe all i need to get 1500 are the rhinos then.

I'll try to start painting the army now

 

What else would you add to the army?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Yeah, those points seem correct - I did up the list quickly and it came out to 1353 points.  You could take 2 rhinos with no upgrades (so, just the combi-bolter) and then drop 9 points of wargear to get a 1500 point list.

 

Any reason for one squad with 2x plasma and one squad without?  If they are both on foot I would give each unit one plasma to make them more versatile.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Dr_Ruminahui

[nusphigor]

Yeah, those points seem correct - I did up the list quickly and it came out to 1353 points.  You could take 2 rhinos with no upgrades (so, just the combi-bolter) and then drop 9 points of wargear to get a 1500 point list.

 

Any reason for one squad with 2x plasma and one squad without?  If they are both on foot I would give each unit one plasma to make them more versatile.

 

Thanks mate. I guess both rhinos are the next things to get then.

 

as for the plasmas, the only reason is that i'm out of the bit as i used all of them in my fists support squad.

I guess i might use both squads with 1 plasma just in case :p

[nusphigor]

I tried my hand on painting one legionnaire in a variation of my old scheme

what do you guys think?

I was thinking on painting the alpha letter and the unbroken chain symbols in white i used to do, but i don't know...

[Dr_Ruminahui]

He looks good - and I think white symbols would be a good contrast to your blue-green.

[Lord Raven 19]

^Agreed

[ChazSexington]

Hey man! I remember your stuff on Serpent's Lair - I was Claudius (IIRC) over there. I copied your scheme for my first Alpha Legionnaires :)

I would say, with all of 1 game of 9th under my belt (organising a tournament has taken all my time), try it. CSMs (the troops choice) are, relatively speaking, better than they have been in ages and actually can form a pretty decent core for an army for once. I don't see any reason why your army wouldn't function well at least a casual level!

 

Now, I would keep an eye out for the announced 2W update for all SmolMarines. That will change your points values, and also remember that the Daemons would probably need to be summoned in. 

[nusphigor]

Hey man! I remember your stuff on Serpent's Lair - I was Claudius (IIRC) over there. I copied your scheme for my first Alpha Legionnaires

I would say, with all of 1 game of 9th under my belt (organising a tournament has taken all my time), try it. CSMs (the troops choice) are, relatively speaking, better than they have been in ages and actually can form a pretty decent core for an army for once. I don't see any reason why your army wouldn't function well at least a casual level!

Now, I would keep an eye out for the announced 2W update for all SmolMarines. That will change your points values, and also remember that the Daemons would probably need to be summoned in.

Thanks man I hope you enjoyed that scheme

I have been working more on the idea, and have been painting my Khorne Berzerkers Stand ins. I knew i wanted to paint red (basically because the berzerkers and their rhino were my first ever csm minis) but since all i have are loyalist marines conversions i had to get creative.

the idea is to paint chipping on the red armour to put the alpha legion colours underneath, but i don't know if i should paint these as Blood Angels or as actual Khorne Berzerkers... What do you guys think?

Let me upload a picture and show you the models for better reference

they are a mix of different kits and epoxy putty. some look nice, others more so so but still its a wip.

What do you guys suggest? World eater colors or Preheresy Blood angels?

Edited September 7, 2020 by nusphigor

[nusphigor]

Hey guys

I painted another test mini because that dark turquoise just wasn't working for me. So i found inspiration in a Ultramarine and the old alpha legion pics from the Horus Heresy artbook and painted this guy:

I am surprised that the scheme is stupid easy to paint. Just basecoat with Kantor Blue and do highlights with a make up brush with Alaitoc Blue and Hoeth Blue. Then paint the Leadbelcher and Retributor armour areas and do an overall nuln oil shade.

The rest is just making details with other colours but its surprising how that dull blue is so easy to do.

What do you guys think?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Looks good! The freehanding is great too.

[nusphigor]

Thanks Brother!

It's been some time since i painted that mini and have been toying with some ideas, among them this Omegon's Wrath thing that seems to be the rage now.
Here are some pics of my Crusade force so far, however i'm about to finish a Sorcerer and another chaos marine squad.

The main story of the campaign is that there's a planet which was rebelling and in a huge war created by the Word Bearers, so the Dark Eldar came to raid and kidnap poor people. However a call for aid was sent and the Black Templars, Raven Guard and Vostroyans answered it, so they went on to liberate the planet.
My alphas enter the campaign as the head of the insurrectionists, infiltrating the Word Bearers army, making the distress call for the Imperium's forces and causing havoc among the many sides of the war in order to get space marines to the planet and be able to steal some of that new Primaris geneseed and technology, to study and complement with the Raptor program data to create bigger and better Alpha Legionnaires.

Pics!

Edited April 11, 2021 by nusphigor

[Doghouse]

Really nicely done, you've done a great job on the transition effects.

[Excessus]

Love the blue, and your freehand is on point Nus!

 

 

Shame that the Serpent's Lair page finally kicked the bucket though but is it really dead as long as there are people who remember it? :)

[nusphigor]

Love the blue, and your freehand is on point Nus!

 

 

Shame that the Serpent's Lair page finally kicked the bucket though but is it really dead as long as there are people who remember it?

Thank you brother!

I'm glad to see you again after all these years!

 

It's a shame that of the serpent's lair, it was a fun place to be.

 

 

Really nicely done, you've done a great job on the transition effects.

Thank you brother doghouse. It's quite a compliment coming from you, specially since i really loved the doghouse pattern armours way back in 5th ed :)

 

 

As for advances on this army...

i am ashamed to tell you guys that i am in a bit of a bad spot in regards to this army.

In the end i stripped the paint from those models because i didn't like that Omegon's Wrath thingie and i'm once again looking for ways to paint them. I've been thinking a lot on how to paint them and even wondered if i should keep the alphas on my mind or just do another army.

 

I kinda want your suggestions on this, because i love the alphas lore (it was my first army after all) but i see the models and the current state of 40k as a whole (not rules in regard to the csm) and get so bummed up...

 

I suppose the same thing happens to my primaris. I've been trying to paint them as Dark Angels, but the strengts of that army (both in game and lore) lies in the "other" units and primaris feel quite bad.

 

Anyway, do you guys have any suggestion on how to paint alphas in a non metallic way?

or have you ever felt lost like me in regards to this army?

 

I'd love to read your thoughts on the matter

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I do mine in a more traditional blue with green edge highlighting and dull silver metallic trim.  I can pull some photos if you're interested in the scheme.  It's almost Ultramarine-ish in blue though; I started with the dark blue & green from the 3.5 codex color plate but the blue was too dark and almost Night Lordsy so I brightened it up a bit.

[MegaVolt87]

Honestly, the first paint scheme you posted except with black shoulder pads and some battle damage with metallic's via sponge chipping + washes would look great. Also black rim the bases, it suits many armies. 

[nusphigor]

I do mine in a more traditional blue with green edge highlighting and dull silver metallic trim.  I can pull some photos if you're interested in the scheme.  It's almost Ultramarine-ish in blue though; I started with the dark blue & green from the 3.5 codex color plate but the blue was too dark and almost Night Lordsy so I brightened it up a bit.

 

Thanks mate. Yes please, i'd really like to see some pics

 

 

 

Honestly, the first paint scheme you posted except with black shoulder pads and some battle damage with metallic's via sponge chipping + washes would look great. Also black rim the bases, it suits many armies. 

Thank you man. it's the most similar tone to my first minis (but back then i used cheap craft paint and had 2 left hands) so i guess it might work too

I'll try on a test mini and see what happens

[Excessus]

I'm on the sixth incarnation of my colour scheme for my Alphas now...I've come a long way since my Serpent's Lair days... :P

I don't like to do blue metallic colour scheme. Basically I zenith highlight grey/white and airbrush Akhelian Green over it all and do a dark metal on the trim. Once I varnish it I do pinwash with oil colours and then do details.

The result is something like this:

Ever since I first discovered the Alpha Legion in 2nd ed I have followed their first description, coordination and teamwork! For me, the infiltration was ever only to serve as another angle of a well-coordinated attack. Infiltration, sabotage, teleports and transports, all are tools to overwhelm the enemy. My AL have never been very subtle, hehe...

[nusphigor]

Thank you brother!

it's a nice way of looking at the legion, and in the end an effective force wouldn't restrict itself to one method of doing things if others were more effective in any situation.

Me neither, i've always been a big guns kind of player, maybe that's why i kinda like the Iron Warriors XD

[Excessus]

The 2nd ed codex: Chaos described the Alpha Legion as the only legion where aspirants failed or succeeded as a team instead of individuals, and it kinda spoke to me somehow. Brothers-in-arms, trusting each other and having each others backs. No backstabbing or betrayal (inter-legion at least ;) ).

 

And being loud with many vehicles has always been in the legions arsenal, after all, the Alpha Legion flank on Istvaan V was a mechanised force with tanks and super-heavies. I imagine the difference between the Iron Warriors and the Alpha Legion would be that IW breaches from the outside, while the AL uses the discord inside the city under siege to open the main gate from inside... :P