Best Primarchs

[DarkRaven89]

This is a seriously loaded question cause each primarch had pros and cons to them granted gerneral consenus is that a lot of people respect and hated horus but really respeced sanguinius. But my personal favorite is lion.

[Captain Idaho]

1 vs 1 combat is the intended direction of this conversation so that's really what we should stick to, or else make new threads.

 

1 vs 1...

 

Hard to confirm simply because it would be real combat between them, not regimented.

 

Anyone who has street fights can tell you that it is a world apart from even an MMA fight. Some folk will beat everyone bar a single type of opponent, who in turn would be beaten by some of the defeated opponents of the latter.

 

We can see trends of course. Sanguinius, Horus and Angron are up there consistently, perhaps only likely to lose against a select one or two depending on the variables. The Lion and Russ are up there but might lose to their "bogey" fighters as well as variables.

 

***

 

Anyways, regarding Guilliman, I think folk underrate him in general for fighting. He fought Angron and dealt a lot of damage to him, looking just as bad as he after their duel. He was fighting Lorgar at the time too, so how tough is that?

[Ishagu]

Guilliman beat Magnus, had Mortarion running away and defeated Khorne's greatest general in a duel, one v one.

 

I think people need to remember that even if Guilliman wasn't the best combatant during the great Crusade, unlike the rest he's still fighting and has centuries more experience than any other loyalist. It's entirely possible that he's now the best duelist not counting the Daemon Primarchs.

[Scribe]

Comparing Rob in current times, to the rest of the Primarch's is flawed, he's the only one GW has expanded on obviously on the loyalist side.

 

Keeping it to 30K at least allows for some kind of apples to apples.

[Ishagu]

Comparing Rob in current times, to the rest of the Primarch's is flawed, he's the only one GW has expanded on obviously on the loyalist side.

 

Keeping it to 30K at least allows for some kind of apples to apples.

TC needs to outline what he wants the comparison to be on, specifically, and what the terms of comparison are.

 

If you go on the Great Crusade then Guilliman is the most successful General, with Horus alongside him.

 

The best fighter isn't as clear cut. Probably Sanguinius.

[Scribe]

The best fighter is clear cut, its Horus, Sang, and Angron. Its been referenced more than once.

 

Best Administrator, clearly Rob, but Horus was also Warmaster.

 

Best General? I dont think its fair to discount Dorn, Pert, or the Khan here in their own ways, and again, Horus.

 

Best 'Inspiration' guy? Sang and again, Horus.

 

Best Psyker? Magnus, not debatable.

 

Best Spy Guy? Alpha/Omega.

 

The rest of the Primarchs are all going to be capable in various theaters and roles, but largely have issues of representation within the lore.

 

Best Reavers? Angron, Curze, and Russ.

 

Best Orators/Writers? Lorgar. The whole of the Imperium Theology of 40K is based on his creed!  

 

I think its impossible to look at the totality of the lore, and not see Horus as the combined Number 1 Champ, with Sang up there as well as the close 1/2  photo finish.

 

That's about as unbiased as its going to be.

[jaxom]

Hmm, 1 v 1, where would Unfettered Corax

the warp-shadow-powered Primarch who was Slasher-film'ing the Word Bearers on Sicarius

be?

[Scribe]

I'd assume with other Daemon Primarch's, but not insane. 

[helterskelter]

Best Primarch Killer? Curze. Yeah it was the same one but creativity counts for everything.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Fulgrim is the best Primarch killer imo .

[helterskelter]

Fulgrim is the best Primarch killer imo .

As you've taken this seriously, you'll find Dorns TKO was the best so far

Obviously we haven't had the Khan banish fulgrim or mortarion yet so those don't count

[Uberlord Gendo]

Guys. They come pre-ranked. The Lion is the best. Fulgrim is the second best of the ones we know about, but 3rd overall. I have no idea why you guys are saying Guilliman is better than Angron because Angron is 12th and Guilliman is 13th. Like there's no question. Horus was only 16th, which is why the Lion was so mad and, since Sanguinius is 9th, it's why Horus thought Sanguinius would have been better and also why Guilliman decided to make Sanguinius ruler of Imperium Secundus rather than ruling himself. It's also why The Lion can break Curze, who had, up to that point, been kicking ass.

[Bat33.1]

Ishagu's list is faulty it places all the Imperium primarchs in the top tiers and almost every heretic primarch in the bottom tiers.

 

This is simply fake news - and a case of the HH novels being written by the Imperium for the Imperium.

 

Curze is clearly the best because death is nothing next to vindication and he allowed himself to be killed just to thumb his nose at dad

 

That said I think Uberlord Gendo has a good point 

Edited September 7, 2020 by PJ1933

[Lord_Caerolion]

I'll just chime in on behalf of Ferrus, in that he was one of the premier generals of the Crusade, in control of a whole third of it. He was one of the serious contenders for Warmaster. He just suffers massively from his only major appearance being his greatest failure. Normally he was angry, yes, but he wasn't Angron levels of unthinking rage. It was only due to the betrayal of Fulgrim, the brother he felt closest to, that his anger got the best of him.

 

Hell, the Emperors "nickname"/metaphor for him was even the Iron General.

 

And yes, I'm still annoyed that his Primarchs novel, his one remaining chance to show off his tactical genius, turned what was originally a perfect example of his methods of war, systematically taking apart a series of worlds that had resisted the Ultramarines, into "Ferrus SMASH", and him having to get rescued time and again by the Emperors Children.

[Ishagu]

Ishagu's list is faulty it places all the Imperium primarchs in the top tiers and almost every heretic primarch in the bottom tiers.

 

This is simply fake news - and a case of the HH novels being written by the Imperium for the Imperium.

 

Curze is clearly the best because death is nothing next to vindication and he allowed himself to be killed just to thumb his nose at dad

 

That said I think Uberlord Gendo has a good point

Well, a lot of the traitors had very notable character faults, jealousies and insecurities that led to their downfall. Even in cases where they had Tactical genius they perhaps lacked mental fortitude.

[havlar]

<snip>

Anyone who has street fights can tell you that it is a world apart from even an MMA fight. Some folk will beat everyone bar a single type of opponent, who in turn would be beaten by some of the defeated opponents of the latter.

<snip>

Excellent point!

We could run into rock-paper-scissors scenario, where noone of the primarch is the best (compare the maximum and the greatest elements in set theory).

 

IIRC 1d4chan ran the statistics using Horus Heresy rules, that could be used as input (results of 1-1 combat for each primarch pair)

And now there are multiple ways of computing "who is the best", we could just count who wins the most, who loses the least (notice the difference).

Or we theoretically could put the above into some kind of Elo rating system, and then apply infinite number of matches (with results drawn from above) and then see if there's any element that begins to stand out. Guess it's a question to users with more hard statistics knowledge.

 

tldr: taking a serious stance, this question asked in this topic is _hard_

Edited September 7, 2020 by havlar

[Whitelion]

I'm sorry guys, I can't follow the speech. Perhaps to have a more objective comparison, for a 1VS1, we could list the skills of each, referring to specific episodes, in order to have a list of noteworthy feats of each primarca, and in this way establish a certain ranking.

 

It is not necessary to list them all, as long as each one says who (in his opinion) is stronger than the others, and writes some comments on his abilities, or some reference to extraordinary feats he has accomplished.

 

For example, many of you have said that Horus is the strongest, what powers does he have? What episodes can give us an idea of his abilities?

[Scribe]

 

I'm sorry guys, I can't follow the speech. Perhaps to have a more objective comparison, for a 1VS1, we could list the skills of each, referring to specific episodes, in order to have a list of noteworthy feats of each primarca, and in this way establish a certain ranking.

 

It is not necessary to list them all, as long as each one says who (in his opinion) is stronger than the others, and writes some comments on his abilities, or some reference to extraordinary feats he has accomplished.

 

For example, many of you have said that Horus is the strongest, what powers does he have? What episodes can give us an idea of his abilities?

 

 

Attempting to categorically define '1 vs 1 fighty level' is utterly a thankless, and foolhardy errand. It cannot be done in a 1 through 18 ranking, unless you really want to just discuss this forever. Brackets though? IMO.

 

There is some basis to this, but I'm not going to quote you the books. :p

 

S Tier

Horus, Angron, Sanguinius

 

A Tier

Dorn, Russ, Khan, Fulgrim, Curze

 

B Tier

Dorn, Rob, Ferrus, Mortarion, Corax

 

C Tier

Alpha/Omega, Vulkan, Pert

 

D Tier

Magnus, Lorgar

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Didn’t Corax think he could kill of two the traitor Primarchs at Ivstann but decided not to do so since it could have jeopardized him getting what was left of his legion off planet ?

Edited September 8, 2020 by Black Blow Fly

[Scribe]

Corax thought a lot of things.

[Whitelion]

ok thank you for the clarifications, I see that it is a controversial topic.

To try to get my idea about it, could you please tell me what powers the primarchs have?

So far I have only understood that Magnus is the most powerful of the psykers, but what feats did he perform to earn this title? Others have also told me the same thing, but on lexicanum I have not found any mention of what powers he has.

 

I am not asking for precise quotations, I am also happy with a brief description of his powers and some stories about the companies.

 

Maybe even those of some other Primarch that you like.

 

I would like to learn more about the primarchs but there is little around

[Gederas]

ok thank you for the clarifications, I see that it is a controversial topic.

To try to get my idea about it, could you please tell me what powers the primarchs have?

So far I have only understood that Magnus is the most powerful of the psykers, but what feats did he perform to earn this title? Others have also told me the same thing, but on lexicanum I have not found any mention of what powers he has.

 

I am not asking for precise quotations, I am also happy with a brief description of his powers and some stories about the companies.

 

Maybe even those of some other Primarch that you like.

 

I would like to learn more about the primarchs but there is little around

It's flat-out stated in several books that the only being more psychically powerful than Magnus is The Emperor.

 

Aside from the standard psyker powers, he's shown to have major control of Biomancy to be able to grow himself to the size of a Titan (I forget if Reaver or Warlord) and punches out said Titan.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I mean, without sounding too rude, there's literally dozens of novels released in the last few years about the Primarchs. They are one of the most exhaustively-covered topics in Warhammer by Black Library.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If Corax thought it there’s a decent probability he was right .

[Lord_Caerolion]

Not necessarily. Lorgar also thought he was doing the right thing by worshiping the Emperor, Horus thought he could take over the Imperium, Magnus thought the Conclave of Nikaea would come out in his favour, etc. Just because a character thinks something doesn't mean it's true.