BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 I didn’t say that, just that it shouldn’t be taken lightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 (edited) My point is that someone thinking something doesn't give it a "decent probability" of being right. He thought he could take them, yes, but that doesn't mean he's correct. He could be vastly overestimating his own abilities against them, or just plain blinded by rage. EDIT: Don't get me wrong, Lorgar was about to die before Night Haunter stepped in, but Night Haunter seems protected by his arguably-unavoidable foreseen death, but likewise he also sees Corax as not dying there, so he probably wouldn't be able to kill him either. Edited September 8, 2020 by Lord_Caerolion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Curze is overrated. Got his throat slit and his back broken by the First Primarch on two separate occasions. Utterly dominated. First Primarch is best primarch. Brother Ramael, Robbienw and BLACK BLΠFLY 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 ok thank you for the clarifications, I see that it is a controversial topic. To try to get my idea about it, could you please tell me what powers the primarchs have? It really is very complex. There are 54 Horus Heresy books, 14 Primarch novels and 4 Siege of Terra books. Most of these have Primarchs in performing super-human feats. It is hard to judge who is the best as even the characters in the books have different opinions. Several people suggest Horus and Sanguinius were the best all-rounders while Angron was the best 1:1 fighter. Roboute Guillimans says in one novel he rehgards the 4 best Primarchs as Sanguinius, Russ, Dorn and Ferrus. Even in the books, people do not agree. The best thing to do is to read the books for yourself and form your own opinion. There is no definite list and if you ask different people, you will get different answers. So far I have only understood that Magnus is the most powerful of the psykers, but what feats did he perform to earn this title? Others have also told me the same thing, but on lexicanum I have not found any mention of what powers he has. Here is an extract from Magnus's Primarch novel. It gives an idea of his power levels. https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/9c0ytc/book_extract_magnus_the_red_master_of_prospero/ I am not asking for precise quotations, I am also happy with a brief description of his powers and some stories about the companies. Maybe even those of some other Primarch that you like. I would like to learn more about the primarchs but there is little around There is lots of stuff around. If you don't want to read the Black Library novels then Google for some results as there is plenty of stuff on wikis. Try these. But you won't get an answer about who is the best because there is no single "best" Primarch. https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Primarch https://spacemarine.fandom.com/wiki/Primarchs https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Primarch Whitelion 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Curze is overrated. Got his throat slit and his back broken by the First Primarch on two separate occasions. Utterly dominated. First Primarch is best primarch. Takes some magical space maguffin in the form of Tuchulcha to get to that point in the first instance. First primarch is a scrub that needs to either buy support (see perturabo) or just completely go overkill because he can? (See nemiel/trying to catch Curze on whatever world of Ultramar he was told not to overkill on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 I’m pretty sure Corax could wipe the floor with Curze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 I’m pretty sure Corax could wipe the floor with Curze. And? Have you seen Curzes craft skills? Tiny crosses and a realistic meat model are waaay up there over some ability to stab things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Whitelion, are you aware of Lexicanum and the Warhammer 40k fandom? They're both great resources for retrieving information, especially on stuff as well documented as the Primarchs: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Warhammer_40k_Wiki However, there is no clear cut answer to the question to which one is the best. Let alone that they have different specialisms, GW and BL can't give a definitive answer to who is best in a 1vs1 fight because they want to sell all of the Primarch models, not just the "best one" Basically, all of the Primarchs are great characters in their own way. Whitelion and Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smileyjim Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Curze could take any of them bar the angelWhen he fought Sanguinius, it was a stalemate. When he jumped Dorn, he clobbered him. When the Lion came after him prepared, he broke Curze's back. Circumstances play a big role in it. I agree that there is no absolute ranking. Horus' elevation to Warmaster had much to with him being found first giving him a certain seniority plus his charisma and leadership skills. It seems there was no one else the majority of other Primarchs would have followed. He had the right balance of skill and charisma to be first among equals. The lion broke his back, was that when their legions where scrapping? I didn't read that heresy book mainly as I'm not a fan of the lion. I have heard their big show down curze had him completely beaten and was just choking him out when some legionary saved him. curze could have just gone for a quick kill. I know its all conjecture lol, I guess the one thing everyone would agree on would be that any primarch could beat lorgar with both arms tied behind their back :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 The lion broke his back, was that when their legions where scrapping? I didn't read that heresy book mainly as I'm not a fan of the lion. I have heard their big show down curze had him completely beaten and was just choking him out when some legionary saved him. curze could have just gone for a quick kill. The first time round, Curze was winning until Corswain stabbed him in the back (Savage Weapons). The Lion came to parley so possibly was not expecting to get jumped on in this way. Second time round in "Angels of Caliban", Johnson goes all out to hunt down Curze. He stabs him to prevent him teleporting away and then breaks his back. He drags him back crippled to Macragge for Guilliman and Sanguinius to execute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gore Crow Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 The first time round, Curze was winning until Corswain stabbed him in the back (Savage Weapons). The Lion came to parley so possibly was not expecting to get jumped on in this way. Second time round in "Angels of Caliban", Johnson goes all out to hunt down Curze. He stabs him to prevent him teleporting away and then breaks his back. He drags him back crippled to Macragge for Guilliman and Sanguinius to execute. It's the Lion that jumps Curze first in Savage Weapons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 (edited) ++Lets keep the unhelpful Primarch 'my dad could beat up your dad' trash talk to a minimum (read: zero) please guys.++ Edited September 8, 2020 by Xenith Doctor Perils 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Objectively the Lion, because what ultimately matters is who establishes orbital superiority first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammel Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 I’m pretty sure Corax could wipe the floor with Curze. It's not like they ever actually fought or anything, resulting in an off-screen no-clear-winner in The First Heretic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Thing about Curze is he has the benefit of Prescience. When he doesn't, he's no better than many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDeath Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 - started a war going on for 10 000 years - thereby sending the Imperium of Man into descent - The first Primarch to openly disagree with the Emperor and thinking for himself - turned half of the legions to chaos - indirectly responsible for the deaths of Manus, Sangunius, Horus and the entombment of the Emperor - one of two chaos primarchs who still has a functioning legion in 40k - was able to command Horus at the height of his power psionically (see "Aurellian") - The only chaos primarch that was not beaten at Terra (Ok, Curze can claim that too) - elevated himself to daemonhood (Perturabo can claim that one, although I assume he is more of a super Obliterator) Lorgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 He did all that, whilst he was himself manipulated by lesser men. BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 He did all that, whilst he was himself manipulated by lesser men. Somebody needs to read Lorgar: Bearer of the Word Gore Crow and Blindhamster 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Dorn fortified terra to survive the traitors assault. And he killed a primarch. That’s two very impressive feats. BLACK BLŒ FLY 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 The only way we would know who was the "best" would be for every victory and defeat, success and failure, flaw and special ability to be carefully catalogued. Even then, it wouldn't necessarily be a "fair" comparison. As others have said, the primarchs are very rock-paper-scissors. Just the way its setup. Right now my favourite (Sanguinius) has frankly not come off all that well in the horus heresy series. He's often called out as being one of the top 3 fighters, in "rage mode" he is scary enough to make curze, guilliman and the lion all back off. But generally, he just doesn't give a good showing any any actual fights and rarely does in his dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 If you’re alive, kicking And working to protect the Emperors dream ... then you’re top tier. IMO “Best” should be quantified by how much you improve the quality of the lives of the rest of humanity. We tell our kids to make good choices. We should expect no less of those with power. Blindhamster 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 (edited) If you’re alive, kicking And working to protect the Emperors dream ... then you’re top tier. IMO “Best” should be quantified by how much you improve the quality of the lives of the rest of humanity. We tell our kids to make good choices. We should expect no less of those with power. So.. Bottom Tier are: Sanguinius Ferrus Horus Curze maybe Dorn? I think in terms of making the imperium a better place, Guilliman is the best of the primarchs, the 500 worlds are meant to be about the best place you can live in in the Imperium, even by the 41st millenium Edited September 8, 2020 by Blindhamster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 :) Mmmm .... lees bottom tier and maybe more charitably call it ineligible ;) Blindhamster 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Who throws the hardest punches. Angron. Konrad Russ Who can take the hardest punches. Vulkan Mortarion Ferrus Who can lead the best(via different methods) Pertuabo Guilliman Dorn Who can lead the leaders via charisma Horus Fulgrim The Lion Who are the most special specials Corax Alpharius Khârn. Who are the most unique Sanguinius Magnus Lorgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snazzy Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Nitpick and interjection time! How did this thread elude me so long? Sanguinius ripped the hole in Horus’ armor so that the Emperor could super smite him to death so I’d rank the Angel over the Warmaster... and don’t forget what Abbadon said either . The Emperor killed Horus with a psychic attack. Curze could take any of them bar the angel When he fought Sanguinius, it was a stalemate. When he jumped Dorn, he clobbered him. When the Lion came after him prepared, he broke Curze's back. Circumstances play a big role in it.I agree that there is no absolute ranking. Horus' elevation to Warmaster had much to with him being found first giving him a certain seniority plus his charisma and leadership skills. It seems there was no one else the majority of other Primarchs would have followed. He had the right balance of skill and charisma to be first among equals. Russ broke Magnus's back. Sanguinius broke Ka'Nabanda's back, Johnson broke Curze's back... i guess that was the kind of thing you did back then. Fulgrim is the best Primarch killer imo . That would be Dorn, or Russ. Though, i'd argue that Dorn's victory at the Saturnine created the biggest kill count of them all. He decapitated the Sons of Horus and caused Fulgrim to flee and start the Slave Wars. Russ might have killed the 2nd and 11th Primarch's. - The first Primarch to openly disagree with the Emperor and thinking for himself Technically, that was Horus. He encouraged the Emperor to kill Russ upon discovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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