Looking for Help With First 1000 Point List In Almost Decade

[Anthalt]

Hi everyone,

 

I know this post comes at an awkward time, as we are just about to see a new codex that could wildly change how things look for us in a couple months time... but I figured I may as well build towards a goal for the time being and might as well get some input while doing it... so this list assumes the changes we know are coming (2 wound marines, new weapon stats), but no point changes, and will be looking to use some of those favoured new multiwound winners and weapon profiles.

 

I have never played marines before (was a die hard Tau player for my 40k career, but have always wanted to build a marine army) and only recently returned to the hobby after almost a decade away... and a lot has changed since 5th edition. For the most part I think my story is similar to most, I'm not going to be dropping into the tournament scene any time soon (those days are likely done for me) and will mostly be playing with friends and locals for fun, but at the same time I dont want to just find myself stomped by simple list issues on my end which is why I wanted some advice from more experience marine players.

 

I will be playing Raven Guard tactics their rules fit most closely to the custom chapter I have been making (loyalist Night Lords). The main idea of my list is as follows:

 

HQ:

Shrike

Phobos Lieutenant (Warlord) - Ex Tenebris, Master of Ambush

 

Troops:

2x5 Intercessors

 

Elites

5 terminators - powerfists & storm bolters

5 vangaurd veterans - jump packs, 2 lightning claws

 

Heavy support:

5 hellblasters - heavy plasma incinerator

 

 

This leaves me with enough points for one more squad, and I'm torn on which way to take it:

- 5 additional intercessors

- 3 eliminators and a pair of power swords for the intercessor seargants.

Both have their advantages and I would love to hear you opinions on what would add more to the list as far as its performance goes. On the one hand, 5 more objective secured bodies is pretty relevant in 9th from what I can tell. On the other hand, the eliminators add deployment flexibility, their defenses, and a strong disruptive element in their ability to snipe out character auras.

 

As far as the battle plan goes, the army relies heavily on alternate deployment options such as master of ambush, strike from the shadows, and deepstrike to stay flexible and deploy into the midfield early to claim objectives. It then capitalizes on the advantage in fire fights thanks to the chapter abilities while in cover and at a distance to out grind opponents on the midfield objectives while Shrike and the Vanguard provide flexible mobile support.

 

Overall I suspect it may lean too heavily into deployment gimmicks and be light on anti-tank, but I think I would rather have the potential for flexibility in how I deploy/redeploy, and would rather have the list lean harder into cutting down infantry that will hold objectives and win the game rather than the tanks that support them.

 

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts!

Edited September 13, 2020 by Anthalt

[Alcyon]

Hi Anthalt! Nice list and welcome to the Ravenspire. My army is also fluffed as new Primaris loyalist Night Lords, though the few actual Corax descended oldmarines kicking around don't know it... I fell in love with ADB's book series and the RG's rules.

 

Re: your list. I would avoid a single squad of Eliminators, as cool as they are. I think the consensus is that one unit doesn't efficiently kill characters fast enough, and if you want to run them you need two squads. That said, if you wanted to run them with Las-Fusils, I think they're a solid anti-tank option. However, Eradicators are much stronger for the same points cost and you can bring them on via SftS, a shame because they're a lot less fluffy. Similarly, Lightning Claws really suffer from being 1 damage right now, I think Thunderhammers and Storm Shields are a great loadout instead making the unit very tough and very killy, especially with the impending 2 wounds and 4++ Storm Shields improving their standard armour to a 2+.

 

Your list is so different from mine and from the units I've played I don't have much more advice than that - best of luck with it!

[Anthalt]

Hi Anthalt! Nice list and welcome to the Ravenspire. My army is also fluffed as new Primaris loyalist Night Lords, though the few actual Corax descended oldmarines kicking around don't know it... I fell in love with ADB's book series and the RG's rules.

 

Re: your list. I would avoid a single squad of Eliminators, as cool as they are. I think the consensus is that one unit doesn't efficiently kill characters fast enough, and if you want to run them you need two squads. That said, if you wanted to run them with Las-Fusils, I think they're a solid anti-tank option. However, Eradicators are much stronger for the same points cost and you can bring them on via SftS, a shame because they're a lot less fluffy. Similarly, Lightning Claws really suffer from being 1 damage right now, I think Thunderhammers and Storm Shields are a great loadout instead making the unit very tough and very killy, especially with the impending 2 wounds and 4++ Storm Shields improving their standard armour to a 2+.

 

Your list is so different from mine and from the units I've played I don't have much more advice than that - best of luck with it!

Thanks for the feedback!

 

The claws were a thematic choice since I felt they really fit the Night Lords aesthetic, but you're right, I should likely switch to fists/hammers and shields.

 

Had not realized eliminators were sub-optimal, which is a shame because I really like the sniper team. I had heard Las fusiles were pretty so-so compared to the sniper option, but I'm definitely up to five then a try.

 

Weirdly I had also heard that ex tenebris simply isn't that relevant in smaller points games, so maybe I move away from the sniper nest team entirely to another squad.

[Alcyon]

I don't think Eliminators are bad per se it's just that you need about six of them to be useful, and the squad size is capped at three, so you're usually stuck using up two Heavy Support slots. I haven't played with the Las Fusils but a guaranteed three damage is I think quite strong versus even the Lascannons' D6 or Meltas outside half range. 

 

On the contrary I've found Ex Tenebris to be absolutely deadly no matter the game size. I'm about four matches in on an escalation crusade right now and my Captain with it has killed more models than anything else in my army. With BS2 re-rolling 1s and +1 to hit if anything's in Dense Cover, almost all his shots get in even if they have to wound marines on a 4+ (except characters during Tactical Doctrine!) It's clutch in Assassination games and would be terrifying against any valuable T3 character. Highly recommend it. I suppose if you run the Lt with a single squad of Eliminators, that combined unit might be strong enough to offset the weakness of a single squad - I hadn't been factoring Ex Tenebris into their output.

 

Playing with the Mathhammer calculator a little, an LieuTenebris should deal about 1.5 wounds a turn to Primaris, and Eliminators should deal slightly less than that (or actually more on turn 1 with Devastator Doctrine, as long as they don't have an invuln.) Usually it's better for the Sergeant to use Guided Aim and not fire, but it turns out if you have re-roll 1s to wound it's better for him to shoot. So altogether on turn 1 the combo should deal about 3 wounds to a Primaris Captain/Chaplain or 4.5 to an HQ without an 4+ invulnerable.

 

Then on turn 2 you'll slot into Tactical Doctrine, the Elims will lose AP-1 while the Lt will gain it (a wash there), but everyone gets +1 to hit and wound because of the Surgical Strikes doctrine. So with that you should outright kill a Primaris Lt or Librarian or deal 3.5 to a Chaplain or Captain.

 

Also none of that takes into account the chance of dealing mortal wounds on a 6+ for using Mortis bolts, and don't forget that the Lt gets to ignore cover and the Eliminators can use Executioner rounds out of LOS (and to ignore cover and get a +2 to hit.)

 

So they aren't bad at all, they just have a pretty particular niche. There are plenty of units that'll put out more shots and kill more models but if you want to target characters it's hard to beat these guys, especially in concert with the Lt. And his firepower is roughly similar to another squad for 10pts less, so that's pretty compelling actually. Never thought about it that way before. I think to make best use of the aura though you would want to try and stack another unit near them.