UM Aura's getting "Cored".

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Anyway, what units do you guys foresee having the core keyword? I'm hoping aggressors still have it, but I'm not sure. I heard a rumor that units that abused re rolls with tons of shots would get nerfed. Do you guys think the ATVs will have It? The article said bikes would have it and they have the bike keyword...

From the article it sounds like most of the Infantry units are getting it. Someone else has posted in this thread that Bikers and TDA are getting it.. that's pretty sweet! 

 

I'm really hoping that at least baseline Devastator Squads get the core keyword as well. 

[emperorpants]

 

Anyway, what units do you guys foresee having the core keyword? I'm hoping aggressors still have it, but I'm not sure. I heard a rumor that units that abused re rolls with tons of shots would get nerfed. Do you guys think the ATVs will have It? The article said bikes would have it and they have the bike keyword...

 

From the article it sounds like most of the Infantry units are getting it. Someone else has posted in this thread that Bikers and TDA are getting it.. that's pretty sweet! 

I'm really hoping that at least baseline Devastator Squads get the core keyword as well.

Yeah, I'm hoping some of our heavy support units will get core. We shall see. It's going to suck waiting for the full picture. Lol.

[Prot]

Please keep the debates respectful guys. We’re never all going to agree but that’s okay. 
 

I am starting to think the balance for vehicles is the loss of moving and shooting penalties. Also they have the ability to fire into CC. This may be why they may not have access to the core keyword. 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Prot

[Captain Idaho]

Very possibly. Vehicles are consistent when moving but self contained death dealers.

 

I've been thinking about the Censured Helm on Captains is very interesting. No more personal rerolls but the Relic does give that, so a fighting Captain becomes fairly powerful again.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

Marines are certainly taking a hit with this. That said, this is how I hope it will shake out:

-Guillimans aura unchanged. He still buffs all hits and wound rolls of 1 for everything. Would help make him relevant in 9th and worth his points.

-Calgars aura unchanged. He buffs hit rolls for everything.

-chapter master upgrade. Re roll all hit rolls for core units.

*snip*

 

 

Surely that would be way, way worse an outcome than how it is right now? The main problem at the moment is that it's kind of lame and dorky to have a mighty captain sit cowering in a corner just so he can inspire some tanks. Lists that encourage people to have a PRIMARCH or even the mighty Marneus sitting in a corner is even worse. And if they did change it to what you're suggesting, you can bet your sweet bippy that's exactly what would happen. People wouldn't start running core units, everyone would just be running RG hiding in a corner surrounded by massive guns. That's kind of exactly what they're trying to get away, not push people even further into.

I say this as a fella whose most successful tournament list ever was running Trajann and a banner babysitting 3 telemons and 2 caladius'. Was it effective? Well yeah I went 5-0 at a tourney with almost 100 people. But when the mighty Trajann only swung his axe in 1 out of 5 games, that's kind of lame and not how it should be. This change forces the game to be way more fluffy. Competitive lists will adapt, but fluff wins and I love it.

.

QFT

[MadEdric]

I think the core ability is great. Never played the parking lot or used a smash captain, heck rarely ever even use a castle. Hard to say we are being nerfed when marines have been getting buff over buff. Stronger units, stronger weapons, wider variety of units; marines are in such a good place compared to other armies.

[Prot]

I think the core ability is great. Never played the parking lot or used a smash captain, heck rarely ever even use a castle. Hard to say we are being nerfed when marines have been getting buff over buff. Stronger units, stronger weapons, wider variety of units; marines are in such a good place compared to other armies.

 

I'm not going to disagree with you, however I'd say two things: the "aura" mechanic has historically been a very strong reason why Marines started having more success. And secondly these opening moments around a codex are typically as strong as an army well get for a long time (unless GW needs to sell a new release).

 

These aren't bad things, and I have -always- hated a parking lot. I even hated the old school Conqueror tanks, hovering around Guilliman for rerolls. I think it's an incredibly boring way to play. 

 

So for me at least, this really isn't a change that will make my armies (much) worse. However, I do think if it were my decision, I'd have Calgar capable of buffing himself. 

 

I'm also worried about the devaluing of non-core units. Well not only units, but weapons.  IE: We now know the lascannon doesn't appear to receive a buff. 

 

Hopefully there's more to it. Speculation about a Techpriest ability helping vehicles would be interesting to see. 

[Lykke]

If they don't give characters special abilities, that reflects there fighting prowess it's a HUGE mistake imo. Thematical this will mean that every unit with +2 is equal in fighting skill, and reflect poorly with all the written lore, the 40k universe is based on, and, at least for me is where my inspiration for playing 40k came from. Just imagen captain being better to hit enemy units then a primarch.. It can really ruin ones immersion 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Lykke

[Prot]

I respect that it would ruin your immersion.... I can't say I would feel quite that slighted, however the change just plain doesn't make logical sense to me as much as they want to sell it as such.  We've seen the math doesn't support it, and let's be honest, how 'powerful' is it to have an HQ not giving himself a re-roll? 

 

I guess it's something they can always come back and change. I don't say this from a 'nerf' perception. I think the overall reaction to this change by the player base would also verify that it's largely a strange move to not have the HQ's affect themselves.

 

The rest I can live with. As I stated I hated castle armies. I don't think Marines should really play like that. That's just me, but at the same time I admit how strange it seems that it appears most vehicles will not be capable of receiving aura benefits, and I fear this is one way they eliminate old school weapons which were largely 1 shot/2 shot weapons.

[Captain Idaho]

The question that must follow I guess is how many other non-Marines armies are really affected by this?

 

It seems like an attempted move away from HQs being so powerful on the table, right or wrong.

[Prot]

The question that must follow I guess is how many other non-Marines armies are really affected by this?

 

It seems like an attempted move away from HQs being so powerful on the table, right or wrong.

 

Which further means, army wide centric abilities are now a bit better: IE: Master Crafters, Expert Artisans, etc.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Master of Sancity FTW

[crazyterran]

More incentive to have Captains, CMs and LTs leading the troops is good to me. Having a captain hide behind a set of leviathans and contemptors seemed silly.

 

It’ll be interesting what all receives core - will Dreads be core in Marines since they are part of battle companies? Will it be limited to the old boxnaughts and redemptors if they are?

 

Terminators are core, will aggressors? There’s so many unknowns. Im personally shaving one to two hundred points off the lists I’m playing with and will see how it shakes out.

[Lykke]

Terminators are core, will aggressors? There’s so many unknowns. Im personally shaving one to two hundred points off the lists I’m playing with and will see how it shakes out.

If not, then it goes against there whole argument for making the change. If not they should just said that is a nerf, to an army because it's to popular

[Prot]

Here's a question for you guys...

 

I've been playing games in the past week 'pretending' there's a Core rule in effect, just to keep track of how much difference it makes.

 

Again without all the details for vehicles revealed, I sense a lot less vehicle use from what I'm experiencing. 

 

As an exercise I've been making new lists with this rule in mind. And this brought me to questioning the Dreadnought model in general. 

 

Would you take a dreadnought if they don't count as core? I'm talking the entire category: Redemptor, Venerable, Contemptors, etc.

[Azekai]

BS 2+ dreads still seem reliable enough, and I think Contemptors chassis are worth it. ‘Standard’ 3+ BS dreads seem kinda meh.

[Captain Idaho]

Good question. Personal opinion...

 

I would. Love Dreads.

 

They act as great saturation to armoured vehicles. We don't know the points of course, but I can see points decreases comparatively for things that don't have Core.

 

• Ordinary Dreadnoughts provide fire support and some close combat support depending on builds (though most including myself don't take them with power fists). Same goes for Venerables.

 

• Contemptors and Relic Contemptors are super fast and great at assaulting enemy objectives and even hard targets.

 

• Love Ironclads. More T8 and some close ranged punch.

 

• Redemptors provide plenty of wounds and loads of anti-infantry firepower.

 

• Deredeo and Leviathans still have scary weapons.

 

Sure without rerolls they're not as fierce, but I didn't play with them much myself anyway as I often spread around tables even in 8th.

 

And if they get Core they become even better value :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Dreads are great ! They can function on their own. Seeing they have access to WotA they will be even more valuable imo .

[Prot]

Yea I still like Dreads, even for protecting characters. 

 

It will be interesting to see our new Strats... does "Wisdom of the Ancients" make the cut? If so, seeing how it will interact with all units (core/non-core?) will be very interesting. In a way, you could suppose with the size of a dread base, and the idea of affecting all units, could make it better than a Captain. So it will be very interesting to see how this all shakes out.

[StraightSilver]

I don't think my list will change drastically tbh but it also depends on changes to Strategems I guess.

For example i usually leave a Dreadnought with key units to be buffed by Wisdom of the Ancients when I need it - with this potentially only affecting core units this will probably change as he's usually buffing heavy support at the back...

The only other change is I probably won't give my Captains power fists any more due to the minus 1 to hit and the loss of the reroll.

However, my lists are normally heavy on Tactical Squads (I lay pure Firstborn Ultras) so I will still get the rerolls I need for the most part.
 

[Ishagu]

After seeing the rules for the Ctan we can only dream that Guilliman will remain as relevant in one way or another.

 

If his auras are nerfed to match what's happening with other characters then a unit like the Void Dragon is strictly superior.

 

I'll take a big point drop and a move to the HQ slot - would actually make him more usable.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Ishagu

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’d like to see Bobby get the lose only up to three wounds per phase treatment .

[Prot]

I’d like to see Bobby get the lose only up to three wounds per phase treatment .

 

I've thought that myself since the Ork Ghaz redo. But I have a feeling it won't happen since he can be 'protected' right now by other units. 

 

I am really hoping Guilliman maintains some advantage. He's been turned down quite a few times now. Not to mention the primary scoring system rewards multiple units, spread out a bit more. The whole 'block castle' shooting style with Aura's has always bugged me. I just never liked it. 

 

Admittedly I probably play my Ultra's way too much like White Scars. It's just my preference to put pressure on opponents and look for mistakes. I'm not saying there's anything (functionally) wrong about moving castles, I just find it really boring. 

 

GW will want to see those new tanks and speeders sell. If they don't belong to the "core" ruleset, then I have to believe there's something else going on here that we just don't know about. BUT if Guilliman retained re-roll aura's, then those new tanks/speeders would be (assumingly) more popular in such a list. But it's just speculation on my part. 

[Galron]

No change to me. I have been advocating reducing auras to be like necron abilities for awhile(you pick the unit that gets the buff) and this is far less punishing. So my captain/chapter master and the LT really don't change for me in my list. Not to mention we are supposedly limited now to 1 captain per detachment which isn't a big deal since patrols are a thing. The only thing that might be different is having the captain riding in a different impulsor.

[emperorpants]

The silent kings rules have been revealed, at least some of them. He has auras that buff core units and triarchs to the tune of all hit rolls and then all wound rolls in melee. He has 2 shots at flat 6 damage and strength 12. He makes enemy units in engagement range fight last, not just one ALL. He can deny 1 psychic power, and he can change command protocols. He seems pretty awesome.

 

The only reason I'm bringing this up here is to get everyone's thoughts about what might change for Guilliman, if anything, because as it stands both the Ctan and silent king are flat out better than Guilliman.

 

Could Guilliman get a once per game ability to change the doctrine to one of your choice? Could his auras buff core and a select few other units? Could he get his melee buffed? Could he get the rule of only being able to lose 3 wounds per phase? Could he just get a points drop? Or, could he stay the same as now except getting the core nerf to his auras?

 

I gotta believe they buffed him somehow, remember he saw a 30 point jump at the beginning of 9th. Perhaps that was to account for buffs? Thoughts?