Knights against Raven Guard

[Dracos]

To start just some pics of a few of the tournaments tables. They were designated Heavy, Medium, and Light.

I have detailed pictures of the first game I'll post below. In each case the opposing team chose to have the Raven Guard player fight the Knights ... I assume because, you know ... Centurions. In the first game it was Assault variety and the second with Grav/Missiles.

I did win the roll to see who went first 5 out of 5, so that helped a little lol.

My first opponent deployed aggressively with Incursors and Invictors. I would have also, given the middle Ruin Obscured 75% of the boards LoS from one side to the next. The positive side is it was tall enough to deny true LoS also. I wasn't worried so much about his board presence as his Reserves. I knew the Knight-Lancer could wreck the Invictors while the other Knights could shoot up the Incursors. The Aggressors and Impulsor loaded with a Chapter Master, Blade Guard and Judiciar held back die to Thermal Cannons I assume. I pushed up guaranteeing he would deep strike something behind me.

A number of things happened here. First of all my original plan to melee the Invictors to death with the Knight-Lancer became moot when I was able to get two Knights to touch the middle ruin and shoot through it.They did enough damage to the Invictors that when one blew up it also insured the death of the second. This left the Lancer in the open and the prime target for the Centurions. As it happens I focused the Paladins fire that blew up the Impulsor, weakening the Blade Guard, Chaplain, Judiciar, and killing the Chapter Master,

My opponent thought he had brought the Centurions in T2 but my pictures show they arrived T3. Promptly killing the Lancer. But now his heaviest firepower was cut in half.

The Paladin took a beating from the Blade Guard and Aggressors, but they were both reduced in size that made Grind Them Down throughout rest of the game. I withdrew as far as possible from the Centurions rest of the game after taking the Grav-Marines and Drop Pod out. At all times either camping on or rotating Knights from one Objective to the next.

Summary:

I think my opponent (who won best looking army) needed more ObSec, more ObSec and better use of SftS. I'd have hidden everything I could and brought down a 1000 points T2. I'd lose a couple hundred points in Infiltrators but thats why you toss as many MSU of ObSec out as possible (using Infiltrator strat). I also believe straight Raven Guard is a better way to go than Successor in 9th. I'm a fan of Long Range Marksman and Master Artisan too, but with the coming changes I think giving up the full benefits of the Raven Guard abilities and Relics isn't worth it. It's why I'm painting my Warhawk version of Shrike.

I was going to go through my second game with a different Raven Guard player (no photos) but it's late. I'll go through that one tomorrow. If you look at the initial set of pictures its the one with the reddish brown ruins and stacks of pipes on the field. I forgot until just now that in this game the other team chose the table I got to choose the opponent. They gave me the choice of Raven Guard or a 120+ Ork list. I didn't feel I had enough bullets for than, and knowing Raven Guard so well meant my team mates wouldn't be surprised by our shenanigans. I find it strange players aren't more in tune with what RG do considering LVO last year. No way I'm buying all the Codexes like I use to in 3rd and 4th edition, but using Battlescribe in between games to get a feel for what your opponent has is a great tool ata tournament.

Back tomorrow

Edited September 17, 2020 by Dracos

[thewarriorhunter]

I was going to ask in the other thread but left it for this one: Given that you don't play knights but had a winning record - do you think you did so well against RG because you knew what to expect, are an amazing top tables competitor, or both? Genuinely curious because I think if I picked up an army I didn't know I'd probably fall on my face in every way possible.

[Dracos]

Yes . . . sort of  . . . ;)

 

In no particular order I think . . . 

 

a) Knights are easy to pick up but hard to master . . . I did a lot of Knight research for about 10 days. That gave me a solid basic understanding of Knights (Thank you Goonhammer)

b) I was ranked 20th of 40 players so I wouldn't say I was killing it. I left a lot of VP on the table and possibly the Custodes loss  could have been a win if I was more familiar with Knights.

 

c) Raven Guard . . . I believe both players could have done better against the Knights if they had used SftS more aggressively with their Centurions. Splitting fire is a bad idea against Knights. Except for the game I was tabled, all my opponents made that mistake. Not working a plan that focused fire. (Yes I was tabled remember so yeah not all that hot). I also believe both players should have NOT used Master of Ambush on the Aggressors and used SftS instead. I also believe both should have had more ObSec units.

 

For instance the loss to the Custodes player can be attributed to good use of ObSec (seemed like it was on everything) and tying the Knight Lancer in melee early. The Custodes player couldn't kill one Knight during the game but he won because he was great in the ObSec game. I'm going to pound that word into everyone's head until it's out mantra ;)

 

Knowing Raven Guard so well obviously helped but being able to look at a list and develop a basic idea of what it is designed to do will do the same pretty much for every Faction you face. I'd never faced a Tau'nar but I knew it was suppose to kill a Knight plus a turn if I let it. Both my opponents were fine players. Both were playing Successors though and it's my opinion they found an army whose rules they liked. No disrespect to that being a way of making a choice, but I truly believe you are better off understanding your own playstyle nd choosing an army whose rues support that play style. I love Black Templars and Crimson Fist, but they don't suit my style of play. I could play Ultramarines. They are a well balanced force I believe I could shape into a winner ... but they're Ultramarines so ;)

 

Raven Guard "Ride or Die" for me. 

 

TWH: It's just my opinion but I believe the only thing "holding you back" competitively is you are a hobbyist first and player second. I, of course am the flip side of that coin. The minute you get serious about "winning" you're going to get results. You're to smart and the if dedication you show to the hobby side of the game is any indicator, if applied to a competitive tournament mindset should kick butt. imo. ...  It might mean cutting back on the quality of the hobby side? I don't know, some can do both, but at your level I see a few that do it but not a lot.

[duz_]

Those tables look great!

Interesting that there was so many RG successors

I'm guessing Eradicators were pretty common too?

 

 

Also, I too have that cart :lol:

 

Ps. Yes all Custodes have obsec

[Dracos]

Yeah those carts are nice. I’ll have to get one when I take the Warhawks. Knights you can care in a starter box

 

Both list were centered around 6 Centurions. The first Assault Cents with Aggressors and Blade Guard, the second with Dev Cents Aggressors and Eradicators. Both had Impulsors that died Turn One. I like the Impulsors but I think they are a trap RG can bypass with SftS. That and I think as hard as they are, a single unit of Centurions are too limited. If I were to do Centurions I’d double up on the units. use SftS combat squad them and then own the board. A single unit is too easy to evade.

 

I’m too much a Primaris Snowflake so I’ll have to settle doing it with Aggressors, Inceptors and yes Eradicators.