BA Successor Chapter Tactics

[Indefragable]

Other than Flesh Tearers, have here ever been official Chapter Tactics/equivalents for BA Successor chapters?

 

I know FW had some support via character rules for the Lamenters, but IIRC it was BA rules otherwise. 
 

It’s a big picture project I’ve been making for some time (see below), but I am also curious if the forthcoming BA Supplement will include anything of the sort.

 

My idea is to come up with chapter tactics that represent the major* known BA Successors and/or “branches” of the BA bloodline:

 

• Flesh Tearers: known/official
• Lamenters
• Blood Knights
• Angels Vermillion
• Blood Drinkers
• Charnel Guard
• Angels Repentent
• Carmine Blades

 

etc...

 

*who deserves to be considered “major” is certain open to conversation 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Jolemai
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[Xenith]

Seeing as each chapter tactic seems to be part of the main chapter ones, I think you can build stronger combos than the BA one, even from the preview. If successors get the doctrine bonus also, it'll be hard to justify BA rules once again.

 

The +1 to advance and charge combined with the exploding 6's in combat trait seems really strong. I'll probably use that combo with my Flesh Eaters.

[Indefragable]

Seeing as each chapter tactic seems to be part of the main chapter ones, I think you can build stronger combos than the BA one, even from the preview. If successors get the doctrine bonus also, it'll be hard to justify BA rules once again.

 

The +1 to advance and charge combined with the exploding 6's in combat trait seems really strong. I'll probably use that combo with my Flesh Eaters.

...more so than +1 To Wound?

[CK.]

My idea is to come up with chapter tactics that represent the major* known BA Successors and/or “branches” of the BA bloodline

 

It's tough because many of the successors have had next to no exposure in official publications, other than a paragraph or so. And because all chapters descended from Sanguinius share the same curse, you end up with similar doctrines and combat styles. I think there's a lot of overlap that the primary BA chapter tactic encompasses.

 

Flesh Tearers seem to be GW's pick for most notable successor, given that Gabriel Seth actually has a model and rules, and they've given the chapter their own tactic in the new book. Their infamous bloodlust makes them stand out against the rest of the successors, which GW feels is reason to give them the extra attention. In my observations, they're also the most popular of the BA successors and the most likely one to see painted up. 

 

As for the other successors, the best place to look is actually in the Deathwatch RPG books. Honour the Chapter has rules and some background for Angels Encarmine, Angels Sanguine, Angels Vermillion, while Rites of Battle has Flesh Tearers, Lamenters, Blood Drinkers and Knights of Blood. You could dig through these and maybe mix and match chapter tactics to simulate their feel accordingly.

[Indefragable]

 

My idea is to come up with chapter tactics that represent the major* known BA Successors and/or “branches” of the BA bloodline

 

It's tough because many of the successors have had next to no exposure in official publications, other than a paragraph or so. And because all chapters descended from Sanguinius share the same curse, you end up with similar doctrines and combat styles. I think there's a lot of overlap that the primary BA chapter tactic encompasses.

 

Flesh Tearers seem to be GW's pick for most notable successor, given that Gabriel Seth actually has a model and rules, and they've given the chapter their own tactic in the new book. Their infamous bloodlust makes them stand out against the rest of the successors, which GW feels is reason to give them the extra attention. In my observations, they're also the most popular of the BA successors and the most likely one to see painted up. 

 

As for the other successors, the best place to look is actually in the Deathwatch RPG books. Honour the Chapter has rules and some background for Angels Encarmine, Angels Sanguine, Angels Vermillion, while Rites of Battle has Flesh Tearers, Lamenters, Blood Drinkers and Knights of Blood. You could dig through these and maybe mix and match chapter tactics to simulate their feel accordingly.

 

 

Good suggestion about the Deathwatch RPG books. 

 

My own thought is that every single BA successor would share the +1 To Wound in melee since that's a genetic thing....it's in their very blood. From there things would diverge, with the "secondary" tactic being varied based on all sorts of factors. 

 

For those who run successors (Lamenters, Blood Knights, etc...) what sorts of secondary traits do you most picture when you think of your dudes?

[smileyjim]

Seeing as each chapter tactic seems to be part of the main chapter ones, I think you can build stronger combos than the BA one, even from the preview. If successors get the doctrine bonus also, it'll be hard to justify BA rules once again.

 

The +1 to advance and charge combined with the exploding 6's in combat trait seems really strong. I'll probably use that combo with my Flesh Eaters.

Very true. that pick and mix chapter tactic thing I would think would be very good. I'd drop the +1 to charge for advance and charge (WS one?) Which would be brutal and allow things like terminators to cover alot of ground unexpectedly.

[Dumah]

 

Seeing as each chapter tactic seems to be part of the main chapter ones, I think you can build stronger combos than the BA one, even from the preview. If successors get the doctrine bonus also, it'll be hard to justify BA rules once again.

 

The +1 to advance and charge combined with the exploding 6's in combat trait seems really strong. I'll probably use that combo with my Flesh Eaters.

Very true. that pick and mix chapter tactic thing I would think would be very good. I'd drop the +1 to charge for advance and charge (WS one?) Which would be brutal and allow things like terminators to cover alot of ground unexpectedly.

There is no advance and charge successor chapter tactic; that's part of the white scars specific baked in rules. So no pick and mix with that.

[Morticon]

As much as Id like to pick n mix for a successor- I dont see anything tempting me on any level to warrant dropping the +1 to wound. That as a concept (in one or another form) has defined us since 3rd edition. 

[Xenith]

 

 

Seeing as each chapter tactic seems to be part of the main chapter ones, I think you can build stronger combos than the BA one, even from the preview. If successors get the doctrine bonus also, it'll be hard to justify BA rules once again.

 

The +1 to advance and charge combined with the exploding 6's in combat trait seems really strong. I'll probably use that combo with my Flesh Eaters.

Very true. that pick and mix chapter tactic thing I would think would be very good. I'd drop the +1 to charge for advance and charge (WS one?) Which would be brutal and allow things like terminators to cover alot of ground unexpectedly.

There is no advance and charge successor chapter tactic; that's part of the white scars specific baked in rules. So no pick and mix with that.

 

 

If you've seen the list of successor chapter tactics, do share! The +1 to advance and charge is baked into the BA tactic...yet is also a generic tactic. Same with reroll ones for boltguns (IF, right?) and is extra hits on 6's a BT thing?

 

As I mentioned above, the individual legion tactics seem to be broken down to individuals for the custom tactic section.

[Blindhamster]

in theory, BA successors should have to take the +1 to wound as that is meant to represent the thirst.

 

But who knows how it'll be done, and yeah I imagine stronger combos than the base BA one will appear, although successors usually cant use parent chapter relics or strats or characters.

[CK.]

in theory, BA successors should have to take the +1 to wound as that is meant to represent the thirst.

 

The way I interpret it, the whole BA chapter tactic represents the thirst. It’s literally named Red Thirst. The +1 to advance and charge represents their eagerness to get into grips with the enemy and the +1 to wounds is their enhanced strength once they’re there. So the way GW is representing the thirst is twofold.

 

I guess you could argue the +1 to wound should be shared between successors because the Flesh Tearers tactic has it in common (judging from the leaked tactics page).

Edited September 29, 2020 by CK.

[Blindhamster]

and red thirst was just the wound bonus originally

[Dumah]

 

 

 

 

Seeing as each chapter tactic seems to be part of the main chapter ones, I think you can build stronger combos than the BA one, even from the preview. If successors get the doctrine bonus also, it'll be hard to justify BA rules once again.

 

The +1 to advance and charge combined with the exploding 6's in combat trait seems really strong. I'll probably use that combo with my Flesh Eaters.

Very true. that pick and mix chapter tactic thing I would think would be very good. I'd drop the +1 to charge for advance and charge (WS one?) Which would be brutal and allow things like terminators to cover alot of ground unexpectedly.

There is no advance and charge successor chapter tactic; that's part of the white scars specific baked in rules. So no pick and mix with that.

If you've seen the list of successor chapter tactics, do share! The +1 to advance and charge is baked into the BA tactic...yet is also a generic tactic. Same with reroll ones for boltguns (IF, right?) and is extra hits on 6's a BT thing?

 

As I mentioned above, the individual legion tactics seem to be broken down to individuals for the custom tactic section.

The IF tactic is exploding 6s, not rerolls of 1. And no I haven't seen the full list but based on what I have seen there haven't been significant changes so far, so it's a safe assumption.

[Indefragable]

 

<snip>

The IF tactic is exploding 6s, not rerolls of 1. And no I haven't seen the full list but based on what I have seen there haven't been significant changes so far, so it's a safe assumption.

 

 

Based on the latest preview and its list of potential Successor traits, there is some belief that the IF trait is getting tweaked (like how Space Wolves went from Characters get 6" HI to all SW units can HI and 6") to have re-rolls of 1 To Hit when shooting bolt weapons. (NOTE: this is speculation, not confirmed). 

Hidden Content

[Dumah]

I guess I don't see where the connection lies. Bolter Fusillades has alway been reroll 1s with bolt weapons; why would that influence the IF trait?

[Indefragable]

I guess I don't see where the connection lies. Bolter Fusillades has alway been reroll 1s with bolt weapons; why would that influence the IF trait?

 

The speculation is that IF get this instead of 6's = extra shot with bolt weapons. 

[Blindhamster]

 

I guess I don't see where the connection lies. Bolter Fusillades has alway been reroll 1s with bolt weapons; why would that influence the IF trait?

 

The speculation is that IF get this instead of 6's = extra shot with bolt weapons. 

 

but we've seen the codex page that shows chapter tactics, and they clearly didn't?

[BluejayJunior]

I'm assuming that successor traits are going to work the same way as the last codex and the PA books. You either pick your predecessor's trait or you pick 2 of the mix and match traits. Unless +1 to wound is one of the mix and match traits, I can't see really ever using them over the base Red Thirst chapter tactic. 

 

Also, I'd add the Angels Encarmine to that list. They are a 2nd Founding chapter. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by BluejayJunior

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Thread Necro.

 

Just having read over the new rules, and digesting I think from a narrative point being able to pick your traits allows for you to give your own chapter some more identity.

 

I don't think there is a wrong answer here. For me, if I'm customizing my own chapter I like the idea of +1 to advance and charge, and duelist for auto wounding on unmodified 6s to hit. Or representing the speed of the red thirst with +1 to hit in melee, which I think is very good.

 

Whirlwind of rage is also a savy secondary trait. Additional hits is always quite good.

 

I also think with how wounds and damage have increased, as well as the change in the meta, cherry picking rules is a push in my opinion.

 

All that is to say, at the very least I can test out some of these new, to me, abilities and see how they work for me.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Majkhel]

I have had good experiences with Whirlwind of Rage + Master Artisans
You can always get bonuses to charges from other sources

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I looked T that too. Exploding sixes when you have a load of dice feels good.

 

The more I look at it that +1 to hit from born heroes and maybe artisans, or battle hungry both seem like good options too. I think all four of those would capture the feel of a blood angels chapter.

 

Edit: I just saw where Born Heroes has the restriction of having to charge. So I see the benefit in Whirlwind. Looking over the statistical probability the two options are a push, on the charge, while ww pulls ahead in any other instance.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Paladin777]

I have had good experiences with Whirlwind of Rage + Master Artisans

You can always get bonuses to charges from other sources

As long as you've got a heavy hitter in each squad (be it ranged or melee or preferably both!) that would be a nasty little combination.

 

While it doesn't help offense at all, stealthy might be a hidden little gem that can help keep your guys alive while they're slogging up the board.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

I have had good experiences with Whirlwind of Rage + Master Artisans

You can always get bonuses to charges from other sources

As long as you've got a heavy hitter in each squad (be it ranged or melee or preferably both!) that would be a nasty little combination.

 

While it doesn't help offense at all, stealthy might be a hidden little gem that can help keep your guys alive while they're slogging up the board.

The problem with stealth is the change to board size. It's much easier to close that 18" gap and does not combine well if you are trying to deliberately get closer to the enemy. So against tau gun lines it will basically act as night fighting on turn one, a la 5th edition.

 

It also doesn't seem to coincide with the stratagems we are alloted from our book. If we were ravenguard successors it could be more advantageous.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Revisiting my thoughts from earlier. Is red thirst that important if you're running a dread heavy list? If you're looking at S14 you're wounding almost everything in the game on either a 2 or a 3 anyway and spitting out D4-6 per hit. Having exploding 6s and the ability to re-roll without needing the cost of a chapter master, seems pretty cool. That's not to say Red thirst is bad, it isn't, at all. 

I do love the idea of thematically changing how my army looks and suits me. Especially being able to keep some of the feel of being a successor of BA.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

So I've been thinking about a way to tell the story of the carmine blades through chapter tactics. I really feel like the back story of the Carmine Blades has that feel of the Emperor's Spears. However; if I went with Master Artisan as a chapter tactic I like the idea of treating it as though they are trying to curb their rage, thirst, black rage etc. by dedicating so much time to the artistry that blood angels as a whole are renowned for.

While keeping Whirlwind of Rage though of being beasts in melee. Obviously there are several other options to coincide with that combo.