Next AT supplement: Crucible of Retribution

[schoon]

 

While I’m happy they are putting out something...it’s kinda lame they aren’t introducing new gear/titans. Happy for the legios that finally get rules though. Astraman is pretty neato.

 

Who do I need to perform the rites of percussive maintenance on to get reaver plasma carapace weapons, corrupted titans, and Mechanicum knights?

 

 

I agree that it seems off to have a book with no new "hardware" altogether, I'm happy that they're giving us a release that will at the very least be a good read.

 

As for models, there's the alternate armament Warbringer that could accompany the release, maybe another Strategem Deck, but not much else.

[Spleenex]

Like hitting two night or units?

 

As per the main rules, if the hole of the blast template is over the base of the target after scatter, it causes two hits instead of one. It's an *incredibly* impactful rule, so anything you can do to reduce scatter or improve hit chance on a blast weapon is almost always worth the points/CP, especially if you plan on taking a lot of them.

[noigrim]

the more you know!

[Mandragola]

You're right to point out that the blastgun is able to hit other targets. This makes it even more devastating.

 

I think you could honestly argue that it's the most powerful gun in AT in terms of raw output. It's just always great. You can fire it at shielded targets with no risk to your reactor, with a decent number of shots and range. It's strong enough to ignore knight shields and can one-shot anything but an Acastus, while getting multiple hits on banners. If you can run a warhound from a Ferrox maniple inside a titan's shields you can do a bunch of hits at S11 or more (if in the side or rear) - better than most battle titan melee weapons.

 

It's too much, in my opinion. It means that options like flamers and turbo lasers just look rubbish in comparison. Paired with a VMB - the best shield-stripper for its cost - you have an extremely efficient load-out.

[noigrim]

Since it can't aim I think that the sunfury is better Edited October 1, 2020 by noigrim

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Since it can't aim I think that the sunfury is better

 

Sunfury's more likely to overheat if you Maximal fire though given that you're rolling 4 dice, as opposed to the 2 for the Blastgun (the only reason the latter is viable with the Warhound reactor track)

[depthcharge12]

You're right to point out that the blastgun is able to hit other targets. This makes it even more devastating.

 

I think you could honestly argue that it's the most powerful gun in AT in terms of raw output. It's just always great. You can fire it at shielded targets with no risk to your reactor, with a decent number of shots and range. It's strong enough to ignore knight shields and can one-shot anything but an Acastus, while getting multiple hits on banners. If you can run a warhound from a Ferrox maniple inside a titan's shields you can do a bunch of hits at S11 or more (if in the side or rear) - better than most battle titan melee weapons.

 

It's too much, in my opinion. It means that options like flamers and turbo lasers just look rubbish in comparison. Paired with a VMB - the best shield-stripper for its cost - you have an extremely efficient load-out.

In a vacuum sure, but there’s always more than just one factor at play. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone just spam warhounds without recourse. I think we can all agree or have had already agreed Acastus are extremely powerful especially in a maniple list. One mine strategem and one of your warhounds is potentially removed off the field.

 

For the Reaver argument, it would be extremely powerful, but a modest points increase (let’s say 45 points on a reaver carapace) would bring it in line. The reaver already has the powerful melta cannon, but another option would be cool. Dual Gatling/plasma carapace reaver would be a strong contender.

[noigrim]

Warhounds are really fragile, a warlord killed one turn 1 last game

[Noserenda]

I run pretty exclusively light maniples and one of our group has been running pure warhound since they got released, they can be extremely dangerous but heat is their major enemy, which the plasma plays into really badly. I do think the Blastgun/VMB is a bit of a no brainer best loadout but its not really game breaking i dont think. That said i havent had the chance to play Steff since Audax dropped lol :D 

Back on topic, the book seems super filler-y but thats definitely a good thing tbh, it means they have more stuff to get out aaand the bosses see a niche which is selling. Though i do worry there are too many Legios coming out now, you spam out enough variables and the system is going to start to creak, or they will get super samey. A Blackshield Legio is good though!

Really interested in Echoes of War though, some more play modes is badly needed given how specific and asymmetrical most of the narrative scenarios are and how weak the matched play scenario is. Stuff like the example burning city is very cool.

The Ignis Maniple is fun too, though id rather have something to make Castigators less worthless to justify buying some Acherons :P 

[RedFurioso]

According to article, dozens of Forge Worlds participated in conflict. We got 7 Legios (not counting Martian Ignatum). I wonder if others would be mentioned by name in the lore section, there were many more than 7.

 

Incunabula - ?

Urdesh - ?

Valia-Maximal - ?

Kalbrax - ?

Graia - Legio Astraman
Arl'yeth - ?

Atar-Median - Legio Atarus

M'khand - Legio Venator

Arachnis - Legio Tritonis

Jerulas Station - ?

[1ncarnadine]

Well, the section on the Cataclysm of Iron does mention that the Belt of Iron is composed of "numerous lesser Forge Worlds." Some of them may not be able to maintain Titan Legions. But I'm going to make an educated guess and suggest Laniaskara, Kulisaetai and Damicius represent Kalibrax, Incunabula, and Urdesh (not necessarily in that order).

Here's a piece of a warp route map one of the Horus Heresy book authors had at a weekender (don't remember which year, but it's Neil Wylie's):



We can basically see the shape of what probably has to happen in this conflict already. Incunabula sits in the middle of the stable warp routes between Atar-Median and Graia, and Urdesh and Kalibrax just happen to be the nearest major Mars-aligned Forge Worlds that can throw in.

Valia-Maximal, Arl'yeth, and Jerulas Station aren't even on this map, though their import could always have changed. But I'm going to assume the map still has it right and that these are the minor forges that can't support Titan Legions. Actually, I'm going to guess that M'khand is in Arl'yeth, like a moon or something, in the same way that Iktomia is apparently a forge moon in Arachnus. But maybe not.

So that leaves Kalibrax, Urdesh and Incunabula. Based on Incunabula's position, I'd guess they host the Gatekeepers, but to be fair that could mean a lot of things. The other two are a toss-up, but Urdesh is also mentioned as the final campaign scenario (The Censure of Urdesh: Last Stand) which may imply they're the other major Traitor forge involved? Which would be Laniaskara/the Impalers, judging by the number of color plate pages in the index..

[RedFurioso]

Here's a piece of a warp route map one of the Horus Heresy book authors had at a weekender (don't remember which year, but it's Neil Wylie's):

 

 

Awesome, thanks for the map! I see another Forge World - Artemia - next to Urdesh. And something resembling M'khand in the top left corner.

The interesting thing is, the distance between Urdesh and Stygies/Voss/Phaeton is closer than distance between Kalibrax and Incunabula. Perhaps these Forge Worlds played their part in the conflict too...

[Sandlemad]

Good analysis but the idea that Luther McIntyre, one of the best planet names in 40k, has been renamed to 'Luth Tyre' is repellant to me. Googling turns up a bunch of cases where it's been used in heresy material and I choose to interpret it as some sort of in-universe shorthand in the vein of Johannesburg/Jo'burg.

[1ncarnadine]

Awesome, thanks for the map! I see another Forge World - Artemia - next to Urdesh. And something resembling M'khand in the top left corner.

The interesting thing is, the distance between Urdesh and Stygies/Voss/Phaeton is closer than distance between Kalibrax and Incunabula. Perhaps these Forge Worlds played their part in the conflict too...

 

It's actually "Milhand" in the top left, wherever that's supposed to be. Watch out for trying to measure by distance, as well. The wine splotches on the map are warp storms, specifically the Ruinstorm. There are green splotches that represent old warp storms as well (like the Maelstrom). Artemia / Stygies / Colchis / etc are almost impossible to get to from Urdesh / Kalibrax / Voss for the majority of the duration of the Heresy.

 

here's that whole warp route map in higher resolution, for the sake of fair & convenient access to sources

Edited October 2, 2020 by LetsYouDown

[depthcharge12]

I forgot that Astraman came from Graia. Would be cool to hear some more fluff on the Forgeworld that was featured in the Space Marine game :)

[malika666]

Would be cool if we'd get a bit more on Urdesh, lets see if there'll be a nod to the Gaunt's Ghosts series!

[Marshal Loss]

Book up for pre-order next week

[Sherrypie]

Well that was quick, not that I'm complaining. Though I don't generally go for extra packs of cards, for ease of normal mission generation (and people actually remembering any special rules for the environment) I might grab a set.

[noigrim]

Forge can you stop releasing supplements? I have other things to play you know!

[Dulahan]

I'm really bummed there's no rules for Demon Titans yet.  I've got friends refusing to even play until that happens. :(

[General Zodd]

Yeah, I wish they’d pull their finger out and stop teasing us on the daemon/corrupted titan front!

 

Also, is this the first book not to be accompanied by a new plastic kit release as well?

[Mandragola]

It looks like it requires a lot of effort for them to design a titan. That's probably why we keep on getting designs for stuff they've already got in 40k scale. Even if they don't have the CAD files for it (which they mostly do) they still know what the thing should look like. Things like corrupted titans and Rapiers will need designing from scratch.

 

This is an interesting supplement in that in many ways it seems quite light on content. It's mainly just Legios wiht no new strats or contenta like allegiance abilities, that applies to everyone. That's probably for the best as it won't add to the "weight" of the game much. 

 

The missions could be a lot of fun... if they're good. I've played the core five missions an awful lot now and they were never balanced in the first place. A new set is great news.

 

Do remember to order your cards on Saturday, or else don't ever expect to get them. These things always sell out and this particular set looks like it'll be well worth having.

[schoon]

I have to say that I'm a bit disappointed in the table of contents:

• No new Titans
• No new weapons
• No new Knights

Now, I love background and fluff as much as the next person, which is exactly why I'll be purchasing it anyway, but I'm a bit less enthused.

 

I get that plastics have a year-long production ramp, AND that COVID likely pushed their schedule back by at least 6 months in terms of miniature production, but this still seems a bit lazy.

[Marshal Loss]

First look at Ignatum:

 

[1ncarnadine]

It'll be interesting to see the rest of their rules & how that strat interacts. Right now it looks like a much worse version of Oberon's Decisive Action, but notice that it doesn't mention that the effect lasts "until the end of the phase" or anything. It may turn on free First Fire for a whole match?

I'm not sure how I feel about the color scheme direction vs some of the book cover appearances we've seen. I'm not big on Ignatum but I think if I ever did them I'd hybridize the schemes. I like this one in general but I can't unsee the left leg in a fishnet stocking.