9th Edition codex for Raven Guard. What do you like?

[Dracos]

I hope to field a Chaplain MoS stepping out of the Shadows with a 10 man unit of Assault Intercessors.

 

I also am interested in ways to synergize Aggressors and Adaptive Strategy.

[GreyCrow]

Reivers are garbo ?? WHAAAAAAAAT ?

 

They’re a terrific unit ! Their damage output is so low that you don’t really care about losing them.

I use them as a distraction unit that scores points. I’d rather have the enemy shoot the Reivers versus shooting intercessors for instance !

 

Standalone, they are not great and won’t achieve much besides being where you put them. But being aggressive with them on an objective is pretty neat and losing them won’t cost you games ;)

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Reivers are garbo ?? WHAAAAAAAAT ?

 

They’re a terrific unit ! Their damage output is so low that you don’t really care about losing them.

I use them as a distraction unit that scores points. I’d rather have the enemy shoot the Reivers versus shooting intercessors for instance !

 

Standalone, they are not great and won’t achieve much besides being where you put them. But being aggressive with them on an objective is pretty neat and losing them won’t cost you games

Garbo.  Hot garbage.  Trash tier.  Awful without peer.  Having damage output so low that you dont care if they are lost is a sure fire sign that they should not be in your list.  You know what is a better distraction.... 3 aggressors or 3 eradicators, or more intercessors, or incursors,infiltrators, bikes, outriders, characters, etc etc.  

 

The models are still ace though!  :(

[defl0]

They can shut off other units ob sec. Seems kinda awesome to me...

[War of the Eagle]

They can shut off other units ob sec. Seems kinda awesome to me...

Most of the time you turn off their obsec it then gose to a numbers game, and if you had more numbers you might as well had your own obsec unit in the first place like Incursers instead of Reivers.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

They can shut off other units ob sec. Seems kinda awesome to me...

Seems a bit fliddly to bother with when you you can just blast or chop up whatever is on the objective.  Or just your own obsec.  

 

The models are great though!

[MajorNese]

Garbo.  Hot garbage.  Trash tier.  Awful without peer.  Having damage output so low that you dont care if they are lost is a sure fire sign that they should not be in your list.  You know what is a better distraction.... 3 aggressors or 3 eradicators, or more intercessors, or incursors,infiltrators, bikes, outriders, characters, etc etc. 

With the long list of buffs we can stack on Phobos, I strongly disagree. They require more planning and synergies than most units, but can pull off things no one will ever expect.

Especially as they don't look impressive on paper and easily fly under the radar.

 

MoA Aggressors? That's common. Turn 1 mass charge by 20 Reivers? That's new, and can decide a game before it truly starts.

No idea how this looks in 9th, but in 8th they were ace when used right.

[Dracos]

I like Shrike, our stratagems .... and that’s about it. Our Tactics and Doctrine really took a subtle but deep slice to the bone. With the board smaller, game shorter, and characters less common, a lot of what made Raven Guard feel deadly has been watered down.

 

Aggressors have been nerfed so hard I’m switching to one unit and making it flamestorm to run with MoA. Replacing them and the Eliminators with Eradicators and Bladeguard.

 

Shrike’s still my boy with the Inceptors. I haven’t decided to drop on of the two 5 man squads and go with one unit of Plasma ... my painting queue became real full again here after the Indomitus drop.

 

I want to find a place for Assault and Heavy Intercessors but not sure if I’m going to have the points for the Gravis with two units of Infiltrators or Incursors being a must.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

Garbo.  Hot garbage.  Trash tier.  Awful without peer.  Having damage output so low that you dont care if they are lost is a sure fire sign that they should not be in your list.  You know what is a better distraction.... 3 aggressors or 3 eradicators, or more intercessors, or incursors,infiltrators, bikes, outriders, characters, etc etc. 

With the long list of buffs we can stack on Phobos, I strongly disagree. They require more planning and synergies than most units, but can pull off things no one will ever expect.

Especially as they don't look impressive on paper and easily fly under the radar.

 

MoA Aggressors? That's common. Turn 1 mass charge by 20 Reivers? That's new, and can decide a game before it truly starts.

No idea how this looks in 9th, but in 8th they were ace when used right.

 

Wouldn't assault intercessors or vanguard vets do a much better job?  

[Alcyon]

Or even Incursors since they don't require so much support to facilitate a turn 1 charge? How do you even do that with 20 Reivers without Concealed Positions?

[MajorNese]

Or even Incursors since they don't require so much support to facilitate a turn 1 charge? How do you even do that with 20 Reivers without Concealed Positions?

Master of the Vanguard + Swift and Deadly + Infiltrators strat. 6+2+d6" pregame movement, 6+2+d6" on first turn, then charge. With the (at least in 8th) cheapest primaris bodies you could get, at 4A each.

 

And no one expected it, since those guys don't have any fancy deployment unless you buy them gear, so the targets weren't deployed to block charges. With netlist cookiecutter classics, like MoA AssCents or Aggressors, everyone who looks at your list knows what will happen. This trick appears nowhere online, it is not obvious from the list, and therefore catches people off-guard.

 

How this looks in 9th I can't say, I got tired of running after updated marine rules/points/models every other day.

Edited October 10, 2020 by MajorNese

[Lukoi]

The downside being no special weapons on either Incursors or Reivers, and 16 S4 AP0 D1 or 16 S4 AP-1 D1 attacks being effective at clearing chaff/screens but not much else, for each squad of 5.  Even a squad of 10 might lock up something interesting, and your committed WL should have some form of beat stick attacks of it's own, but regardless, I don't see this move having similar impact to an Aggressor/Cent attack, outside of the novelty of surprising someone.  Fun though, and often that's enough :)

Edited October 10, 2020 by Lukoi

[MajorNese]

The downside being no special weapons on either Incursors or Reivers, and 16 S4 AP0 D1 or 16 S4 AP-1 D1 attacks being effective at clearing chaff/screens but not much else, for each squad of 5.  Even a squad of 10 might lock up something interesting, and your committed WL should have some form of beat stick attacks of it's own, but regardless, I don't see this move having similar impact to an Aggressor/Cent attack, outside of the novelty of surprising someone.  Fun though, and often that's enough

Quantity has a quality of its own - the list where I committed that much to make it work drowned the opponent in close to 200 dice per turn, while killing every character in range. It was all S4/5 AP0-2, but it killed every target up to Gorkanauts in less than 2 rounds. Aggressors wouldn't have worked in that case - the opponents could kill a certain number of models per turn, and when faced with 40 equally worthless models, that made no impact - with Aggressors, the useful guys would have died first, lowering my damage output significantly.

 

Reivers can pull their weight with a proper plan, and coming up with such a plan is way more interesting than using entirely predictable go-to elements.

[Lukoi]

"Master of the Vanguard + Swift and Deadly + Infiltrators strat. 6+2+d6" pregame movement, 6+2+d6" on first turn, then charge"

 

Guess you burned alot of CP up front to do that with enough units to reach that level of quantity.  Would be interesting to see how it plays out in 9th.

[Dracos]

If I already didn’t have so many models to paint for modifying my own style to 9e and the new Codex I’d give heavy though to that Reiver plan. No one expects the MotV and unless your a top shelf thinker it takes a minute to see what’s going to happen to you when you see that army list. It’s just too common to dismiss Reivers as useless because their rules are weak. It’s what makes them cheaper though and just having that many bodies to toss forward is easily underrated.

 

Speaking of spending CP

 

I’ve decided one of my go to pre-game CP I’d going to be Master Crafting for either an Inceptor or and Aggressor Sgt. The Inceptors will be escorted by Shrike and the Aggressors by a Chaplain and I want that last guy in the model to be a real pain in my opponents backside. :). I usually have had left over CP with the new system anyway.

[Jacques Corbin]

I guess, lore-wise, that Reivers are our Gate 42 guys. Oh, you like to act like Night Lords? Then go assault that heavily fortified position.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

After reading over the codex today I think that Reiver LD tricks might have some use.  I don't think it will be competitive or even semi competitive but you might be able to do something with it.  As for turn 1 mass charges.... not buying it.  At best it is just a "gotcha" trick vs weak opponents.  Even when getting the ideal mass charge off it will be a disaster vs most lists.  You will get interrupted and lose guys, get shot up in overwatch, hit with "fight last" or just kill worthless chaff then have to eat the entire enemy army's firepower on their turn.  

 

Some example lists where turn 1 charges will do nothing.  

 

death guard , str 4 ap 0 will just bounce.

custodes, ap 0 vs 2+ saves, enjoy

imperial guard, you killed some guardsmen, well played

tau, enjoy the overwatch

slaanesh daemons, 15 dead daemonettes, nailed it

nurgle daemons, bounce

[Jacques Corbin]

After reading over the codex today I think that Reiver LD tricks might have some use. I don't think it will be competitive or even semi competitive but you might be able to do something with it. As for turn 1 mass charges.... not buying it. At best it is just a "gotcha" trick vs weak opponents. Even when getting the ideal mass charge off it will be a disaster vs most lists. You will get interrupted and lose guys, get shot up in overwatch, hit with "fight last" or just kill worthless chaff then have to eat the entire enemy army's firepower on their turn.

 

Some example lists where turn 1 charges will do nothing.

 

death guard , str 4 ap 0 will just bounce.

custodes, ap 0 vs 2+ saves, enjoy

imperial guard, you killed some guardsmen, well played

tau, enjoy the overwatch

slaanesh daemons, 15 dead daemonettes, nailed it

nurgle daemons, bounce

Yes, but...

 

Unless the Reivers get wiped out in that initial melee, then the enemy unit is tied up in melee or has to fall back. In most cases, that means that unit cannot shoot, and its movement phase is wasted. Those two things have their own value.

 

Versus Tau, yes. They lost their overwatch cancelling grenades, unless I read my codex wrong. But, knowing we have all the deployment shenanigans we do, and that Reivers can Deep Strike or Outflank, will motivate Tau players to castle up even more than they already do. I mean, will he really deploy those Pathfinders on that isolated piece of terrain, knowing that by turn two they will be shot and charged, so bye bye to their marker lights? Or, will he devote some support to them that otherwise would have supported the main castle? Or, will he castle up his whole army, hoping we try to crack that nut open and that he has sight lines to objectives to shoot us off of.

 

One of the few things I like about a game with a :cuss-ing Tau player, is when they take that third option. When they huddle up, and stay that way all game, maybe dropping in crisis suits. Alas, the nerf to Thunderfire Cannons will make such games less enjoyable. Oh well. Can't wait for the Primaris Indirect Fire Units...

[Dracos]

Is it really AP 0? Our LGS in Indy don’t get the Codex til Tuesday.

 

SG I see what you’re saying but is the damage output much worse than equal points Outriders or Assault Intercessors?

 

and you’re right I wouldn’t send them against Death Guard or Custodes, but if they want mid board VP yes Guard, Eldar, And even Tau if I can use Suppressors to turn off Overwatch. I think it has legs in the right terrain against the right opponent. In cases it doesn’t look like good idea you have a good unit or two of cheap action monkeys that can also deep strike and help with other secondaries.

 

 

Being heavily invested in Gravis infantry I don’t and won’t own any myself but I’m interested to see how they combo with the Cut off the Head stratagem (or whatever it’s called) it’s a bit Night Lordy and should appeal to narrative Carcharodon players :)

Edited October 11, 2020 by Dracos

[Jaipii]

Received my copy of the new codex and bought my first box of Tactical Marines yesterday. Man those are classic but they just look so bad (the proportions are so off). I really want to field some Firstborn in my battleline and having to stand next Primaris does them even less justice.

After some thinking and playing around my bits box (trying to keep the amount of extra work minimum ) this is the final iteration.

Say hello to brother Tactical Marine!



And after I had opened the Pandora's box there's nothing to stop me from up-scaling my Jump Pack Vanguard Veterans! They are the unit that turned me into a Raven Guard initially so what could be better?

Brother Vanguard Veteran



Jump Pack Vanguard Veterans with lightning claws is a great take. The new stratagem for mortal wounds on charge looks really good for a big squad of Vanguards. Along with a Jump Pack Chaplain MoS with Command Oratoring the Canticle of hate and Raven's Blade strat for re-rolling the charges.

Eliminators have BS 2+. Have they always been like that? Otherwise nothing else to tell about them. No ignoring line of sight and Mortis rounds now only do mortals on unmodified 6's.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Jaipii

[Jacques Corbin]

Is it really AP 0? Our LGS in Indy don’t get the Codex til Tuesday.

 

SG I see what you’re saying but is the damage output much worse than equal points Outriders or Assault Intercessors?

 

and you’re right I wouldn’t send them against Death Guard or Custodes, but if they want mid board VP yes Guard, Eldar, And even Tau if I can use Suppressors to turn off Overwatch. I think it has legs in the right terrain against the right opponent. In cases it doesn’t look like good idea you have a good unit or two of cheap action monkeys that can also deep strike and help with other secondaries.

 

 

Being heavily invested in Gravis infantry I don’t and won’t own any myself but I’m interested to see how they combo with the Cut off the Head stratagem (or whatever it’s called) it’s a bit Night Lordy and should appeal to narrative Carcharodon players :)

Yeah the TFC is AP0 and S4. Very sad. Still great for softening up GEQs to be finished off with bolters, but that is about it.

 

Also, Suppressors are 3 shots each now, and it is a hit to remove overwatch now instead of a kill to remove it, and with split fire being a thing (It still is, right?) watch out Tau. They would pair nicely with a biker Chaplain especially if you are prepared to throw 2CP at Steady Advance to have them count as remaining stationary. Catechism of Fire has them wounding T4 on 2+...

 

The jury is still out on Reivers.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Is it really AP 0? Our LGS in Indy don’t get the Codex til Tuesday.

 

SG I see what you’re saying but is the damage output much worse than equal points Outriders or Assault Intercessors?

 

and you’re right I wouldn’t send them against Death Guard or Custodes, but if they want mid board VP yes Guard, Eldar, And even Tau if I can use Suppressors to turn off Overwatch. I think it has legs in the right terrain against the right opponent. In cases it doesn’t look like good idea you have a good unit or two of cheap action monkeys that can also deep strike and help with other secondaries.

 

 

Being heavily invested in Gravis infantry I don’t and won’t own any myself but I’m interested to see how they combo with the Cut off the Head stratagem (or whatever it’s called) it’s a bit Night Lordy and should appeal to narrative Carcharodon players

I think reivers can have some play vs horde lists if you use the new master of sanctity relic that forces the enemy to take morale tests at 2d6 and pick the highest.  If you combine that with the reiver -2ld and any other stacking ld debuffs you could do some decent damage in the morale phase against certain armies.  This would require testing since it does have moving parts and can be countered.  

 

GW I think could spice up Reivers quite a bit by just giving them the Melta Bombs keyword.  Then they would be a fairly cheap threat to vehicles along with all their other abilities.  

[War of the Eagle]

Received my copy of the new codex and bought my first box of Tactical Marines yesterday. Man those are classic but they just look so bad (the proportions are so off). I really want to field some Firstborn in my battleline and having to stand next Primaris does them even less justice.

After some thinking and playing around my bits box (trying to keep the amount of extra work minimum ) this is the final iteration.

Say hello to brother Tactical Marine!

And after I had opened the Pandora's box there's nothing to stop me from up-scaling my Jump Pack Vanguard Veterans! They are the unit that turned me into a Raven Guard initially so what could be better?

Brother Vanguard Veteran

Jump Pack Vanguard Veterans with lightning claws is a great take. The new stratagem for mortal wounds on charge looks really good for a big squad of Vanguards. Along with a Jump Pack Chaplain MoS with Command Oratoring the Canticle of hate and Raven's Blade strat for re-rolling the charges.

Eliminators have BS 2+. Have they always been like that? Otherwise nothing else to tell about them. No ignoring line of sight and Mortis rounds now only do mortals on unmodified 6's.

Im upscaling aswell. Already turned 5 reivers into lightning claw vangaurd vets. May even do some devistators.

Now that primaris is just a base attack and a bigger bolter I see no reason they should look different as long ad they stay wysiwyg equipment wise.

Also instead of using a CP on the reroll charge roll strat why not use it to give the chaplain the reroll assault warlord trait using 7 fold path.

[Alcyon]

After reading over the codex today I think that Reiver LD tricks might have some use.  I don't think it will be competitive or even semi competitive but you might be able to do something with it.  As for turn 1 mass charges.... not buying it.  At best it is just a "gotcha" trick vs weak opponents.  Even when getting the ideal mass charge off it will be a disaster vs most lists.  You will get interrupted and lose guys, get shot up in overwatch, hit with "fight last" or just kill worthless chaff then have to eat the entire enemy army's firepower on their turn.  

 

I agree, though I do think there's some utility to tying up enemy units turn 1 if you can get a charge off, or even just position a cheap unit on the edge of their DZ. u/Stormcoil on reddit has some batreps with his Tyranids where he fences in Plagueburst Crawlers and other big, slow, resilient units in with Hormagaunts and Mawlocs and prevents them from moving out to occupy the board. Reivers are cheap enough points wise now to make that worth considering, but on the other hand, you could also run the cheaper Scouts in the same role, where you get Concealed Positions for free and don't have to stack WLTs and strats to facilitate it.

 

 

Yes, but...

 

Unless the Reivers get wiped out in that initial melee, then the enemy unit is tied up in melee or has to fall back. In most cases, that means that unit cannot shoot, and its movement phase is wasted. Those two things have their own value.

 

Versus Tau, yes. They lost their overwatch cancelling grenades, unless I read my codex wrong. But, knowing we have all the deployment shenanigans we do, and that Reivers can Deep Strike or Outflank, will motivate Tau players to castle up even more than they already do. I mean, will he really deploy those Pathfinders on that isolated piece of terrain, knowing that by turn two they will be shot and charged, so bye bye to their marker lights? Or, will he devote some support to them that otherwise would have supported the main castle? Or, will he castle up his whole army, hoping we try to crack that nut open and that he has sight lines to objectives to shoot us off of.

 

One of the few things I like about a game with a -ing Tau player, is when they take that third option. When they huddle up, and stay that way all game, maybe dropping in crisis suits. Alas, the nerf to Thunderfire Cannons will make such games less enjoyable. Oh well. Can't wait for the Primaris Indirect Fire Units...

 

I agree with the former I just think you have options to do it with far less investment, as noted above. 

 

Re: Tau, they are a trash tier competitive army right now because they have only one unit tough enough to hold an objective (Y'Vahra) and nothing to charge enemy ObSec and claim objectives. They cannot win by castling in 9th so this isn't something you have to worry about. Even if your meta is full of triptides you should be able to crush those lists on primary points alone. 

 

The only remotely viable Tau list right now I think is Breachers in Devilfish, Ghostkeels and Stealth Suits in Farsight Enclaves, and even old Thunderfires wouldn't be a ton of help there. 

 

SG I see what you’re saying but is the damage output much worse than equal points Outriders or Assault Intercessors?

 

and you’re right I wouldn’t send them against Death Guard or Custodes, but if they want mid board VP yes Guard, Eldar, And even Tau if I can use Suppressors to turn off Overwatch. I think it has legs in the right terrain against the right opponent. In cases it doesn’t look like good idea you have a good unit or two of cheap action monkeys that can also deep strike and help with other secondaries.

 

I mean, you're talking about either getting a 14" move and 6 attacks per model on the charge (19 for a 3-man unit at 135pts) for Outriders plus six Bolt Rifles at AP-1 with full range, or the same number of attacks on the charge (29) but with ObSec. I don't think it's about the damage so much as it is the expense in CP and army design to support that kind of unit considering their impact. And that's without considering the extra 14pts for Grapnel Launchers or Grav Chutes. I don't want to spend the points for a Chaplain to let Reivers charge out of deep strike when I could be facilitating Lightning Claw Terminators doing so.

 

Re: cheap action monkeys, I guess if you're hard up for CP then being able to pay 100pts to get a deep striking infantry squad isn't the worst, but you could do it with any squad using SftS, and Scouts and Infiltrators/Incursors all get Concealed Positions and can come almost as cheap or cheaper. I just think there's so many options in the codex now that tools like Reivers are really outmatched, but hey, just because we don't think they're competitive tier doesn't mean you can't enjoy playing them or finding useful things to do with them.

[Jacques Corbin]

On Reivers, I think Grapnels are going to be better than Grav Chutes. It is nice to have the option to Outflank, and they make a nice mop-up unit. Also, they can take advantage of the Terror Troops strat and the Shock and Awe strat. Both are handy ways to sabotage your opponent.